Japanese and American Reaction to Disaster

[Hot Mega]

Curious to see how orderly the Japanese react to disaster compared to say the American one after Katrina.
Both suffered from nature's wrath. Yet we see order and no looting in Japan, and chaos, corrupt cops leaving, looting, murder after Katrina.
What a difference.

When the big one hits L.A. it's going to be yet another compare/contrast to Japan.

Your comparing a hurricane to a tsunami?

I think the levels of destruction fail to fall into perspective of one another.

Were not talking about a country that was battered by winds and debris, destructive as it was, areas struck by the tsunami have been wiped clean off the fucking map!

Theres nothing to loot!

Good observation. What can be made of the initial aftermath of a leveled area other than there not being anything nor anyone. But if there is no order, stores abandoned...people without will take what they need and criminals will take what they want. Japan is not without criminals.

Read the National Response Framework and you would understand that responses go from local to state to regional and THEN Federal. The response to Katrina was not perfect, but politics played more into the blame game than the facts. The problem was that the local and state politicians did such a poor job of planning and execution that there WAS no local response and very little state assets into the NOLA area in the first 72 hours. By comparison, the MS coast was much harder hit, but the state did a MUCH better job of responding quickly because they were more prepared. :2 cents:

I have worked with the JSDF on emergency planning several times, they are doing better than any other country right now. They are well prepared, they are smart, they have a lot of resources, and best of all, their culture helps with an orderly response (which gets at what the OP meant with the thread).

There is a 'regional' level of g'ment now? Besides that C/S, relating some hierarchal response order does't put the reality in perspective. Meaning, just because there is some hierarchal structure presupposed doesn't mean in practice it went that way. Obviously the city level was incapacitated under the circumstances. The state level was hampered by deployment of it's National Guard and their equipment to Iraq.

Hence, your raising of the theoretical process of this hierarchal response suggests the Fed response was appropriately phased when in practice, their response should have been almost immediate under the circumstances. It wasn't.

That's one way of looking at it. However, we are comparing apples and oranges and this thread was created by the "centrist". There has to be a secret agenda.
:elaugh:

Yeah.

There's a word for "coming together" in Japan. Apparently that's how everyone is greeting each other currently due to the disaster. Individualism is looked down upon in Japan, instead the group is what matters.
Here in the US our culture is the opposite, the individual is the center. There are stories about the victims waiting for hours for food/water without fighting.
We'd have a near riot here.
Despite the differences both US and Japanese get through the crisis it's the way of doing so that is fascinating.

I'm not comparing the physical damage. However, a disaster is a disaster and it's interesting to see how two cultures deal with it that is interesting and quite revealing.

Ah..the double talking bait arises now. 'hours'???????? Who couldn't wait for hours?? The problem in NO was that people were waiting for days...while literally dying where they waited. The average human can only last for a few days without water. Then what are you going to do?

Although the devastation in Japan is horrendous and allot of people are suffering...at the time you posted this there was no effect of people suffering without a reasonable response for days (and days).

What made the 9/11 US public reaction(specifically New Yorkers) so similar to that of the Japanese?
We know the victim's reaction to Katrina in New Orleans. Why was that(reaction) so different from those in New York? Both are American, same culture etc?

Was it because in 9/11 for instance it was an attack against Americans and those in NY were all lumped together as such regardless of race, ethnicity, religion etc?

How does Japan's reverence for the sea play into the mindset of the people after the devastating tsunami?

Just throwing out questions and ideas.:dunno:

In both cases people were affected of different backgrounds. The difference was once 9/11 happened there wasn't any footage of what obviously needed to be done. During Katrina people could see for themselves individuals in desperate straits, there were first hand accounts of what was and wasn't happening. Law and order were gone in NO....that wasn't the case in NY. Although 9/11 was devastating from a morale standpoint, the average person in NY wasn't suffering dire straits and cooped up without simple drinking water.

You were right. He can't resist. He's a sneaky rat. :2 cents:

:hatsoff:

You're obviously going down another road. Please show where the comparison is BS?
All of my questions/points are valid.

See above and see below.

The reason I didn't include India or other countries was simply as an American and Katrina occurring in the U.S., I'm curious to the cultural differences between the aftermath to the hurricane disaster with what we see in Japan.

Of course there are many cultural differences between Japan and some areas of the US. None more apparent than some goofball chick on youtube ranting against 'Asians' at 'our' school when she probably needs to be spotted a few letters to spell her own name. While the 'Asians' (many of whom are Japanese) are too busy getting their grades to make excuses about who they can't understand.

It seems like an innocent question but I'm sure it isn't.

You still can't see the gorilla the "centrist" has put in the room.
Take a few moments to get to know trident. He's quite good but not good enough. :2 cents:

You're right. Racist? Probably not but certainly all the appearances of another bait thread.

Bait how so? Well, ol Trident soft serves some slow pitch softball then waits for some rant about how the people in NO are this and that pejorative leaning toward some racial or ethnic description and there you go...

Obviously it's as transparent as amoeba membrane but nonetheless some people see it as a rational comparison.

The more interesting thing you should be concerned for Trident is the willingness of the Japanese and TEPCO to be forthright and honest about what's going on at Fukushima. Try that for an American/Japanese comparison.

 

[CunningStunts]

HM, in disaster response, FEMA is broken into regions, which actually do the heavy lifting so to speak... good thing too, because the folks at FEMA HQ in DC are retards.

Also, states have what's called EMACs between each other, they assist each other first before the Feds come in later. Ironically, FEMA Region 4 is VERY good at this because they do it all the time (AL, MS, GA, FL, SC) for hurricanes. LA was another story...

 

[Hot Mega]

HM, in disaster response, FEMA is broken into regions, which actually do the heavy lifting so to speak... good thing too, because the folks at FEMA HQ in DC are retards.

Also, states have what's called EMACs between each other, they assist each other first before the Feds come in later. Ironically, FEMA Region 4 is VERY good at this because they do it all the time (AL, MS, GA, FL, SC) for hurricanes. LA was another story...

C'mon C/S. Most people know that most Fed agencies (or even nationwide corporations) have regional offices. EMACS is still administered at the Fed level under NEMA right?

Point is, FEMA had a duty to respond as in every other circumstance prior to calling for their response. IMO had FEMA remained it's own entity/cabinet level agency there likely wouldn't have been the disarray and lack of precision in decision making.

Hard to know for a fact but when something is one way that works then someone changes it and then it appears not to work, guess where the blame will (and maybe should) go?

Getting into the technical nuts and bolts of the response layers is pretty nonsensical at this point. Once the magnitude of the damage was surmised it should have been clear to anyone the city and state levels were overrun.

At that point you're at the federal level no matter how many onion layers of acronyms are listed in some response plan.

 

[CunningStunts]

C'mon C/S. Most people know that most Fed agencies (or even nationwide corporations) have regional offices. EMACS is still administered at the Fed level under NEMA right?

Point is, FEMA had a duty to respond as in every other circumstance prior to calling for their response. IMO had FEMA remained it's own entity/cabinet level agency there likely wouldn't have been the disarray and lack of precision in decision making.

Hard to know for a fact but when something is one way that works then someone changes it and then it appears not to work, guess where the blame will (and maybe should) go?

Getting into the technical nuts and bolts of the response layers is pretty nonsensical at this point. Once the magnitude of the damage was surmised it should have been clear to anyone the city and state levels were overrun.

At that point you're at the federal level no matter how many onion layers of acronyms are listed in some response plan.

But the Federal and regional resources WERE marshaled and ready to flow, the problem was simple: (1) NO local/state leadership to direct it and (2) they MUST be a safe environment to send relief workers in.

And while you obviously understand the layered response, most people do not... the initial response is ALWAYS local/state, and Federal assets can only come in to ASSIST within about the 72 hour timeframe.

 

[Hot Mega]

But the Federal and regional resources WERE marshaled and ready to flow, the problem was simple: (1) NO local/state leadership to direct it and (2) they MUST be a safe environment to send relief workers in.

And while you obviously understand the layered response, most people do not... the initial response is ALWAYS local/state, and Federal assets can only come in to ASSIST within about the 72 hour timeframe.

:dunno: Katrina made landfall on the 29th of August and Nagin was launching a radio tirade on the 1st of Sept.

 

[qiinson]

at Mega & post 81.

I would rep you if I could, sir.

B4 that picture was taken, T-dent (on the right) was a die hard Democrat. :surprise:
After that picture was taken Mega (on the left), unable to tolerate a grown man
fail to complete basic training exercises, raised his right boot and planted it
several times in the "center" of Trident's head. The damage was severe and permanent.
Trident recovered in hospital but ever since that day he refers to himself as a "centrist".
Trident has no memory of this incident and Mega will "never" reveal a state secret.

Btw I have called T-dent many names but racist is not one of them.

 

[Trident1]

at Mega & post 81.

I would rep you if I could, sir.

B4 that picture was taken, T-dent (on the right) was a die hard Democrat. :surprise:
After that picture was taken Mega (on the left), unable to tolerate a grown man
fail to complete basic training exercises, raised his right boot and planted it
several times in the "center" of Trident's head. The damage was severe and permanent.
Trident recovered in hospital but ever since that day he refers to himself as a "centrist".
Trident has no memory of this incident and Mega will "never" reveal a state secret.

Btw I have called T-dent many names but racist is not one of them.

So many attempts by zealots to sink the thread without success. You lot have shown your true colors.:clap:


Time for NOLA to return the favor.


http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2011/03/after_the_tsunami_earthquake_w.html




Reminders of Katrina.

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2011/03/japans_tsunami_and_its_afterma.html



Katrina no longer world's costliest natural disaster.

http://www.watoday.com.au/world/killer-earthquaketsunami-to-beat-katrina-as-the-costliest-disaster-in-world-history-20110315-1bv9c.html



To the detractors of this thread.................get stuffed.:thefinger

 

[sam1317]

funny how some people actually take offense to this topic.
simple fucking fact: whether its a hurricane, a earthquake, or a race riot, In the United States many people go ape shit on looting sprees and not for food, not out of hunger but out of selfishness and greed combined with mob mentality.
They ain't trying to help anybody but themselves.


Almost one year to the day here in RI, we had massive flooding that destroyed our homes where I live. The Macy's nearby just reopened yesterday in fact, 50 weeks later. Many people here including myself were rendered homeless. I got my cats and a change of clothes out before evacuation. After all the loss, rebuilding, and damage the thing that pisses me off the most was that the majority of the damage was from people breaking and entering and stealing what was left of our lives. Even worse, the police ended up maintaining an HQ here because others were posing as FEMA and trying to get in and rob us even though we just lost our homes. It may be off topic here but I agree with the above quote. I am not racist and not trying to throw gas on the fire but after Katrina and this I had lost pretty much all hope in humanity. I grieve for all those who have died, who have lost, and those alive and suffering in Japan. I shudder to think what something like this would do to people here. I don't think this deals with race or country but morals and values, something most Americans lack.:2 cents:

BTW- I am in no way comparing what happened here to Katrina and Japan since they were obviously much, much worse. Just stating my two cents about people.

 

[Hot Mega]

Almost one year to the day here in RI, we had massive flooding that destroyed our homes where I live. The Macy's nearby just reopened yesterday in fact, 50 weeks later. Many people here including myself were rendered homeless. I got my cats and a change of clothes out before evacuation. After all the loss, rebuilding, and damage the thing that pisses me off the most was that the majority of the damage was from people breaking and entering and stealing what was left of our lives. Even worse, the police ended up maintaining an HQ here because others were posing as FEMA and trying to get in and rob us even though we just lost our homes. It may be off topic here but I agree with the above quote. I am not racist and not trying to throw gas on the fire but after Katrina and this I had lost pretty much all hope in humanity. I grieve for all those who have died, who have lost, and those alive and suffering in Japan. I shudder to think what something like this would do to people here. I don't think this deals with race or country but morals and values, something most Americans lack.:2 cents:

BTW- I am in no way comparing what happened here to Katrina and Japan since they were obviously much, much worse. Just stating my two cents about people.

Yeah...an unfortunate reality. Disaster strikes and looters go on patrol seeking to take advantage of the circumstances.

But that is the reality of living in a world with the criminally minded. You evacuate to avoid a disaster to come back to a looted home. The mortgage crisis fueled looters and scammers....the California energy crisis gave rises to looters at Enron....war gives rise to looters in the form of g'ment contractors...the list goes on and on and on....since say 'robber barons'.:dunno:

The mob carrying out a few insured plasmas will get the most notoriety though.

 

[Ulysses31]

Damn even Japanese dogs are dignified and loyal. To sum up the article this dog was found in Tsunami hit Sendai waiting besides a seemingly dead pal and even stopping rescuers getting close to his fellow canine, luckily they were both rescued. I wonder if dogs/animals are even shocked by the devastation around them? ps You just know if this had happened in the States dogs would be stealing dog food from the shops and attacking the police.

The brown spaniel-cross tried to keep a news crew away as he guarded his injured friend. After barking at reporters, the dog returns to his fellow canine's side

Miracle: The weaker dog begins to stir and his friend puts a comforting paw around him


'He's alive!': Spaniel somehow survives amid the wreckage of the tsunami

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...protected-friend-surviving.html#ixzz1Gw0XiqYO



Sandra Bullock gives $1million to help Japan as she gets stuck into work on film set

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...p-Japan-gets-work-film-set.html#ixzz1GvyxsFaQ

 

[Trident1]

Damn even Japanese dogs are dignified and loyal. To sum up the article this dog was found in Tsunami hit Sendai waiting besides a seemingly dead pal and even stopping rescuers getting close to his fellow canine, luckily they were both rescued. I wonder if dogs/animals are even shocked by the devastation around them? ps You just know if this had happened in the States dogs would be stealing dog food from the shops and attacking the police.

The brown spaniel-cross tried to keep a news crew away as he guarded his injured friend. After barking at reporters, the dog returns to his fellow canine's side

Miracle: The weaker dog begins to stir and his friend puts a comforting paw around him


'He's alive!': Spaniel somehow survives amid the wreckage of the tsunami

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...protected-friend-surviving.html#ixzz1Gw0XiqYO



Sandra Bullock gives $1million to help Japan as she gets stuck into work on film set

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...p-Japan-gets-work-film-set.html#ixzz1GvyxsFaQ

Amazing instinct.

 

[Ulysses31]

'We will rebuild from scratch': As Japan struggles to get back on its feet, the bodies gather in massive makeshift morgues

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...gathered-makeshift-morgues.html#ixzz1GyaP0BmI

Row after row: Coffins of victims killed in Friday's tsunami or its aftermath are lined up in a makeshift morgue in Rifu town hall today. Each has the deceased's personal items on top

Still the victims are found: A body is removed by soldiers in the town of Minamisanriku which was flattened by the tsunami










Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dragged-safety-tsunami-hit.html#ixzz1GybuHkKv

 

[meesterperfect]

this thread: talk about a failed attempt at race-baiting

only a person with a chip on his shoulder would think that.

 

[meesterperfect]

funny how some people actually take offense to this topic.
simple fucking fact: whether its a hurricane, a earthquake, or a race riot, In the United States many people go ape shit on looting sprees and not for food, not out of hunger but out of selfishness and greed combined with mob mentality.
They ain't trying to help anybody but themselves.

Almost one year to the day here in RI, we had massive flooding that destroyed our homes where I live. The Macy's nearby just reopened yesterday in fact, 50 weeks later. Many people here including myself were rendered homeless. I got my cats and a change of clothes out before evacuation. After all the loss, rebuilding, and damage the thing that pisses me off the most was that the majority of the damage was from people breaking and entering and stealing what was left of our lives. Even worse, the police ended up maintaining an HQ here because others were posing as FEMA and trying to get in and rob us even though we just lost our homes. It may be off topic here but I agree with the above quote. I am not racist and not trying to throw gas on the fire but after Katrina and this I had lost pretty much all hope in humanity. I grieve for all those who have died, who have lost, and those alive and suffering in Japan. I shudder to think what something like this would do to people here. I don't think this deals with race or country but morals and values, something most Americans lack.:2 cents:

BTW- I am in no way comparing what happened here to Katrina and Japan since they were obviously much, much worse. Just stating my two cents about people.

good post
just wondering why ome people here are going out of their way to say theyre not racist.
could it be because they know most of the looters were not white?

it is what it is, to me to deny it or even not say it is actually racist.

Yeah...an unfortunate reality. Disaster strikes and looters go on patrol seeking to take advantage of the circumstances.

But that is the reality of living in a world with the criminally minded. You evacuate to avoid a disaster to come back to a looted home. The mortgage crisis fueled looters and scammers....the California energy crisis gave rises to looters at Enron....war gives rise to looters in the form of g'ment contractors...the list goes on and on and on....since say 'robber barons'.:dunno:

The mob carrying out a few insured plasmas will get the most notoriety though.

apples and oranges........two totally different things.
why not bring up the cost of ticket prices at sporting events while were at it.
and why so many prescription drugs so expensive?
do chocolate bars really need to cost a dollar? they used to be 50 cents.

 

[qiinson]

So many attempts by zealots to sink the thread without success. You lot have shown your true colors.:clap:

:1orglaugh

It's turned out a lot better than I thought. :2 cents:

Time for NOLA to return the favor.

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2011/03/after_the_tsunami_earthquake_w.html

Reminders of Katrina.

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2011/03/japans_tsunami_and_its_afterma.html

Katrina no longer world's costliest natural disaster.

http://www.watoday.com.au/world/killer-earthquaketsunami-to-beat-katrina-as-the-costliest-disaster-in-world-history-20110315-1bv9c.html

Me like. Rep to you. :clap:

To the detractors of this thread.................get stuffed.:thefinger

:1orglaugh

I'll give you a good All American stuffing. Just tell me where and when. :nannerf1:

Almost one year to the day here in RI, we had massive flooding that destroyed our homes where I live. The Macy's nearby just reopened yesterday in fact, 50 weeks later. Many people here including myself were rendered homeless. I got my cats and a change of clothes out before evacuation. After all the loss, rebuilding, and damage the thing that pisses me off the most was that the majority of the damage was from people breaking and entering and stealing what was left of our lives. Even worse, the police ended up maintaining an HQ here because others were posing as FEMA and trying to get in and rob us even though we just lost our homes. It may be off topic here but I agree with the above quote. I am not racist and not trying to throw gas on the fire but after Katrina and this I had lost pretty much all hope in humanity. I grieve for all those who have died, who have lost, and those alive and suffering in Japan. I shudder to think what something like this would do to people here. I don't think this deals with race or country but morals and values, something most Americans lack.:2 cents:

BTW- I am in no way comparing what happened here to Katrina and Japan since they were obviously much, much worse. Just stating my two cents about people.

In light of your experience your view is pretty understandable IMO.

Yeah...an unfortunate reality. Disaster strikes and looters go on patrol seeking to take advantage of the circumstances.

But that is the reality of living in a world with the criminally minded. You evacuate to avoid a disaster to come back to a looted home. The mortgage crisis fueled looters and scammers....the California energy crisis gave rises to looters at Enron....war gives rise to looters in the form of g'ment contractors...the list goes on and on and on....since say 'robber barons'.:dunno:

Another one that deserves rep. :clap:

The mob carrying out a few insured plasmas will get the most notoriety though.

A very good point there, Mega. :clap::clap:

ps You just know if this had happened in the States dogs would be stealing dog food from the shops and attacking the police.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

 

[meesterperfect]

so in light of his experience?
ok so you must have been a victim of or at least have witnessed looting, robbing and scamming firsthand in order to feel that way right?

yeah mega's post deserves rep.
talking about another type of completely unrelated crime as a defenseto looting, robbing and scamming during disasters and riots.
yep, you know its like the time this kid named rich stole my bike and sold it.
wheres my rep?

 

[qiinson]

so in light of his experience?
ok so you must have been a victim of or at least have witnessed looting, robbing and scamming firsthand in order to feel that way right?

No

yeah mega's post deserves rep.

Yes

talking about another type of completely unrelated crime as a defenseto looting, robbing and scamming during disasters and riots.

:tongue:

yep, you know its like the time this kid named rich stole my bike and sold it.
wheres my rep?

:dunno:

 

[Hot Mega]

so in light of his experience?
ok so you must have been a victim of or at least have witnessed looting, robbing and scamming firsthand in order to feel that way right?

yeah mega's post deserves rep.
talking about another type of completely unrelated crime as a defenseto looting, robbing and scamming during disasters and riots.
yep, you know its like the time this kid named rich stole my bike and sold it.
wheres my rep?

Well if that's how you feel then you must see the prodigiousness of bringing up a tsunami in Japan and relating it to a 'unrelated' hurricane circumstance in NO...right??:1orglaugh

Clue meester...they are as related as a guy fleeing his home to return to it looted as it is related to the circumstance in NO. When there's opportunity, criminals will loot...no matter if it's carrying a plasma from an abandoned store or coaxing some poor widow into deeding her home to you...:2 cents:

meester...understanding of comparisons of like situations (analogies) is what? 3rd grade?

 

[Ulysses31]

Symbol of a nation's agony: The boy of nine searching shelters for his family after Japan's tsunami sweeps away his town

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Japans-tsunami-wipes-town.html#ixzz1GzjLntUD

Still hoping: Toshihito Aisawa holds a message written for his missing parents which reads: 'I will come at 11 o'clock tomorrow, so please wait. I will come again tomorrow.'

Lucky few: Patients lie on the floor of one of Ishinomaki's overcrowded hospitals.



Elderly patients left to die in hospital six miles from Japan's stricken nuclear power plant

* 128 pensioners deserted by medical staff at a hospital inside exclusion zone
* Japan holds minute's silence to mark one week since earthquake and tsunami
* Official death toll hits 6,539 but expected to climb far higher
* Hundreds of thousands made homeless seek refuge in emergency shelters
* But there is no heating amid freezing temperatures and food and water are running low


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sunami-humanitarian-crisis.html#ixzz1GzjwxEyx

Supplies run low: Residents in the village of Ofunato queue to buy petrol

Volunteers: Women carry boxes, left, and clean dishes, as they clear debris in the city of Hachinohe. Thousands of Japanese have come forward to help the relief efforts

More bodies found: A South Korean rescue team removes a body in Sendai which suffered some of the worst damage from the huge wave

Grim task: Japanese rescuers move the body of a victim found in a collapsed house in the city of Kesennuma

Overwhelmed: Tokyo Electric Power Company Managing Director Akio Komiri cries as he leaves after a press conference in Fukushima

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...radiation-leak-kill-people.html#ixzz1GzlGdbaN

 

[ragincaucasian]

this wouldnm't happen in Japan