Explosion at Japan nuke plant, disaster toll rises

[Member2019]

Re: It never ceases to amaze me ...

Not 100% BS. Slight exaggeration when I said it COULD be as bad as the Chernobyl incident

Now you're just backtracking from your knee-jerk ...

From: http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?p=5498718

It might end up being worse than the Chernobyl incident.

That doesn't sound like "COULD be as bad."

and it could have been if the workers weren't able to contain it.

The entire automated systems failed. I wouldn't call that "contained."

There have been purposeful leaks of radioactive steam, an explosion due to the superheated water producing hydrogen and most other things due to the extreme heat. That's hardly "contained."

It'll likely end up being a 5 on the 7 scale than the 4 it was. It's expected by many. It's expected to be the Japanese "Three Mile Island" by the same.

Hundreds of thousands have been evacuated in the likelihood of a meltdown.

And all eleven (11) affected plants and their areas were put in a state of nuclear emergency as an automatic precaution.

Luckily the seawater cooling method is working

It's not exactly a cooling method. It's a last resort. It means they realize they're not going to save the reactor. They just need to cool the mass, because it doesn't cool itself on a dime.

Nuclear fission power plants don't work any different than fossil fuel plants, they produce heat which creates steam which turns turbines. The difference is that nuclear fission is damn efficient, its potential is far greater, than burning fossil fuels. The side-effect is that they don't give up their heat easily.

But the chance of radiation hurting anyone is pretty much nil. This isn't Chernobyl where no one new until western nations started detecting the issues a day later. This isn't Chernobyl with a design that can be a catalyst to make the rods stay sub-critical. And people aren't going to get hurt.

The evacuation is a precaution, and it's good to see. The Japanese should be commended on not fucking around on that point. Fear-mongering is just adding to this non-sense.

 

[Member2019]

Emceeeeeeeee always posts anti American, anti West, anti technology drivel.
Take his word with a asteroid sized grain of salt.

I don't mind anti-American, anti-West, anti-technology. What I mind is when someone does that from a standpoint without any basic education and understanding of what they state and quote.

If I wanted that dribble and lack of basic physics, I'd just watch the US news.

 

[PirateKing]

Fuck, I did say that. I'm high then. Let me back out.

Your intellect is making me hot.

 

[Facetious]

This thread only validates what I already knew from what I do for a living... people hear "radiation" or "nuclear" and certain perceptions and fears come to the forefront immediately but more people have very little understanding of the basic science of what radiation is or does.

Exactly. I'd suggest that people become a little familiar with background radiation before they lose any sleep over this. Also, people, listen & learn from the word of objective scientists, not the hysterical politically motivated ratings whore cable tv news anchors.

Aside: Kudos to the New York Times! ...Check it out, a cutaway view of what's actually going on.

 

[Facetious]

And in the context of this thread, it has absolutely fucking 0 to do with nuclear waste and radiation! Seriously. DU is about as useful to nuclear power as oil is as a fertilizer.

Careful, we once used some old diesel to control a weed problem, and wouldn't you know it, the weeds returned in form the following year . .. . twice as dense as the previous season.

 

[Member2019]

Been reading bit ...

I've been reading a bit on the Japanese design. They are using an early GE approach to coolant that is not nearly as tolerant to pressure as most reactor-coolant designs in the US. It's still a '60s era Gen-2 design, but not a preferred Gen-2 design. Some of the media is trying to go after GE now, even though they have no liability per Japanese regulation (natural disasters in excess of specified design tolerances).

BTW, if I read one more ignorant blogger that "the Japanese have the latest technology" bullshit. Seriously, it's a design that is a half-century old, and the French, not Japanese, are 30 years ahead of everyone else, including the Japanese.

With that said the fact that containment continues to hold up is remarkable. Nuclear power still has the ultimate safety record. Far more people have been killed from radioactive material production and improper disposal in medical alone. That's not even looking at nuclear weapons production and improper disposal.

So far with all the hype, the only things to show for it are the Japanese being extreme pro-active in evacuating people. I don't know if the US would be so pre-emptive. Right now they are only hitting levels that are, in the duration of a hour at the planet itself, what a personal gets naturally in a year.

Great article on how fear hurts far more than actual damage:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/14/AR2011031405086.html

Kinda reminds me of the BP oil spill in the gulf. Tourism was hurt far, far more by fear and ignorance than actual oil washing upon the beach. Having rental property in Florida myself, I got tired of the non-sense I ran into.

 

[Johan]

When governements says that it's a catastrophy, thing are really, really bad.
This morning, the french Minister of Environment and Ecology said that "We're heading to a catastrophy" and that the reactor is actually experencing a de-cotainment.
She also added the the winds blowing towards the japaneses big cities are making things worst.

 

[maildude]

So....are the Japanese people at risk or not? :dunno:

 

[PirateKing]

Residents of Soma forced to stay inside, apparently the radiation levels aren't so high that they will affect other cities. So....the situation is less than ideal?

*waits to get lectured*

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake

 

[Johan]

So....are the Japanese people at risk or not? :dunno:

Yep, they are. Some companie are already moving their salaries (aznd families) to the south of the country, lesx exposed than the rest of the country.

 

[CunningStunts]

Certainly a bad situation in Japan right now...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12733393

But even with rad levels around the plant at reportedly 100X background, if they can keep the cores from melting down, it's not catastrophic. The good news is that the radioisotopes released decay quickly. The bad news is of course that the reactor cores are damaged and leaking at all.

My heart goes out to their country and their people. I've travelled there many times and have fond memories. It's painful to see so much devastation and suffering.

 

[emceeemcee]

Re: It never ceases to amaze me ... yep, utterly lack of basic physics ...

Yet another, common conspiracy theory type statement. Wow! It is so it must be! Couldn't be another explanation.

It could have many reasons for it. Discounting something as serious as radioactive fallout as having a role to play is something only an industry shill or an obtuse, argumentative internet obsessive would do.

Yes, you don't know what that means, do you? I.e., Radioactivity is inversely proportional to half-life.

Oh quit with your pathetic obfuscation. You said it wasn't radioactive and it is. Period.

It doesn't matter if DU or another heavy metal is used in AP rounds. It has nothing to do with radioactivity, but the fact that it is a heavy metal! If we impact lead it causes the same damn issue!

So again, this has nothing to do with radioactivity. It has to do with metal particles in air and solids in water

Oh of course it doesn't. It's just that a radioactive material was used in munitions and surprise surprise radioactivity is found in

Any heavy metal causes this issue. That's why they are used in AP rounds. It doesn't matter what the metal is!

No, it's basic chemistry, physics and the periodic order of elements. Your insistence to say it's radioactivity is utterly ignorant of physical science.

Again, utter ignorance. DU doesn't cause radioactive fallout.

Dude, your lack of understanding of basic physics here is your own fault.
I cannot prove this to you if you can't follow it. DU is not considered radioactive. The very paragraph you quoted says such, it's considered "weak." Carbon-14 in your own body is more radioactive!

Are people taught the basics of the period table of elements, half-life and other things today? I guess not.

So let me get this straight:

- radiation is nothing to worry about

- other metals would have done this anyway (even though these kind of health problems are not seen in wars that don't use DU)

- the fact that the areas where DU weapons were fired and dropped have greater amounts of radiation is just a coincidence

- it's just another coincidence that cancer rates spiked in Iraq between 1996-1997 and 2008-2009 and DU has an incubation period of 6 years, exactly in line with the wars that proceeded that spike in cancer rates

Seeing as you believe it's so harmless I guess you better tell the US military that the report they wrote about the harmful effects of DU exposure is worthless. While your at it can you ask them to admend their guidelines for handling DU which states:

"anyone who comes within 25 meters of any DU-contaminated equipment or terrain wear respiratory and skin protection, and states that "contamination will make food and water unsafe for consumption."

At least I understand what I"m talking about.

:1orglaugh

You see uranium and correlate fallout?

Again, your utter ignorance stands on its own. Mad cow disease? The cause for mad cow is pretty documented, and it's the same as most other issues (sanitation, feeding cattle animal stock, etc...).[/quote]

err no. The 'contaminated feedlot' theory was always bogus. The feed came from India, which has never had a case of mad cow. Furthermore, all the other countries which imported the same feedlot never had an outbreak of mad cow.

This just proves once again that fear-based assumptions, often caused by lack of education and ignorance, will be used by anyone who doesn't have an ounce of understanding to explain whatever they want.

Yeah, whatever. I think you got your 'degree' from the same place as Trident got his 'PhD'.

Also, maybe you could explain for me how being a cheerleader of an industry which depends on endless amounts of public money to survive is compatible with your 'libertarian' philosophy? Don't you kooks live and die by the creed that welfare is a sin above all other sins?

 

[vodkazvictim]

If I remember right DU is NOT the best choice of penetrator because unless it's hardened with another alloy it's actually very soft (the reason it's used is weight, for extra penetration) and it's certainly not the best choice for tank armour (I'm looking at you, M1) because of it's low melting point (which is a problem, because if you see the video - you'll note that the M1 is likely to catch fire at the drop of a hat), low hardness and the fact that it contaminates.
The army says it doesn't, but that doesn't stop them giving a lot of business to an organisation in america to safely dispose of M1s which were all too easy to knock out.

The current range of Tungsten Carbide M829A2 and M829A3 APFSDS rounds are MORE powerful than the DU M829A1



Failings of DU "armour":

 

[emceeemcee]

Emceeeeeeeee always posts anti American, anti West, anti technology drivel.

Shame on me for not cheering on America (and Britain's) right to spread radioactive material all over Iraq!


Maybe I should learn to love technology more and then perhaps go to 'university' and get a 'PhD' like you?



:1orglaugh

 

[Trident1]

Maybe I should learn to love technology more and then perhaps go to 'university' and get a 'PhD' like you?



:1orglaugh

Sending you to university would only take away a slot to someone much more deserving of an education.
For now you'll do fine being a cog in the machine.

 

[member984984]

Civil up! Were only exchanging ideas and opines here. Why not seek out
s-o-l-u-t-i-o-n-s instead of melting down!
Let me ask you just one basic question . . The emerging world community is in search of a viable energy resource for the next 100 years, what's your solution?

I don't have a solution, i'm not gonna argue neither for nor against nuclear power, but when somebody says something as stupid as "Nuclear power has in 56 years of operation killed less than 100 people... and yeah, that is including the idiot Soviet failure that is Chernobyl. ", then i'm going to chime in

 

[emceeemcee]

Sending you to university would only take away a slot to someone much more deserving of an education.
For now you'll do fine being a cog in the machine.

If you are an example of the supposed free thinking and independence that university imparts to people who attend (or those who like to pretend they attended) then I think I'd prefer to be a 'cog in the machine' :1orglaugh I'm no wage slave, sorry to disappoint.


I guess I'll just have to be content with the 3 and a bit years I spent studying at a technical college :1orglaugh



poor chap, you don't have much luck do you?

 

[sayvara]

American coal power kills 50 000 people every year... that is more than one such 9.0 tsunami every year.

Fukushima I is still holding the zero.

Do the math genius...

 

[emceeemcee]

American coal power kills 50 000 people every year... that is more than one such 9.0 tsunami every year.

Fukushima I is still holding the zero.

Do the math genius...

Any attempt to characterize nuclear as safe just by measure of bodycount is as disingenuous as it gets- contamination from Chernobyl will last centuries and there are no byproducts of the coal industry which can be lost, smuggled onto the blackmarket and sold to terrorists who can use them to kill hundreds of thousands of people in one go.

Do the math, chump.



I'd wager a few fair of those coal deaths involve miners, which is more about mine safety than anything else.


Anyway, your whole argument is gay to the max. Whether or not nuclear is safer than coal is irrelevant (but I know it's the only way the proponents can try and make nuclear look good) when there are other technologies available which are cleaner and safer than both of them.

 

[Trident1]

If you are an example of the supposed free thinking and independence that university imparts to people who attend (or those who like to pretend they attended) then I think I'd prefer to be a 'cog in the machine' :1orglaugh I'm no wage slave, sorry to disappoint.


I guess I'll just have to be content with the 3 and a bit years I spent studying at a technical college :1orglaugh



poor chap, you don't have much luck do you?

I don't need luck. Seriously get an education it might do you some good.