If a God Exists.......

[BlueBalls]

Yes but the difference is that the invisible dragon in your shed didn't create the universe. You can't compare the significance of the two.

You can't prove that it didn't...

 

[pornophile]

Well if the dragon in your shed did create the universe, then he IS God and he chose to appear to you in that form. And the universe had to be created, otherwise it always has existed and that is as outrageous as believing in God

 

[mrtrebus]

Well if the dragon in your shed did create the universe, then he IS God and he chose to appear to you in that form. And the universe had to be created, otherwise it always has existed and that is as outrageous as believing in God

Why is it as outrageous? Why cant' something have always existed?

 

[pornophile]

Its as outrageous because you have no proof that the universe always existed, just only as far as telescopes can see. Same as having no definitive proof God exists.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

In a way, atheism is also a safety net because everything is explained, everything is logical and no mysteries exist. That is a problem I have with some atheists is that they believe we are at the pinnacle of all science and knowledge. Did you know that even the Big bang theory is not universally accepted and many leading scientists have come up with alternate theories? We do not know everything. And there are things we will never know for sure.

God is one of those things, I am not saying he definitely is real, but there is always the possibility that he is.

What leading scientists dispute the Big Bang Theory?? Brane theorists, Big Crunchers, Big Rippers, Big Bouncers....all of them agree on rapid expansion of energy from the Planck epoch (ie. Hoyle's "Big Bang"). I can't think of a single scientific alternative to The Big Bang.

 

[Ulysses31]

^ I hope there are computers and internet in Hell so we can continue this.

There will be, but it'll be dial-up and not broadband. The pain will be unbearable :weeping: On a less serious note when my religious friends tell me of the sheer torment that people in hell will suffer, I simply ask them, what will a supreme being like God gain out of torturing people? They almost always have no answer and have just learnt their teachings from someone else through word of mouth. I can't say whether God or some sort of creator exists or not but I guess I think not in the way our manmade Earthly religions would have us believe.

 

[mrtrebus]

Its as outrageous because you have no proof that the universe always existed, just only as far as telescopes can see. Same as having no definitive proof God exists.

Mmm, we have prove about how old the universe is though by background radiation measurements for example.

I'm not an expert but do not know much about theories of the eternal existence of the universe.

 

[calpoon]

The Gods don't care about us because they spend all their time worrying about those damn Frost Giants.

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

Mmm, we have prove about how old the universe is though by background radiation measurements for example.

I'm not an expert but do not know much about theories of the eternal existence of the universe.

Hoyle's Steady State theory was made a joke decades ago. Virtually nobody believes that the universe always existed.

So yeah, to cite that scientists cannot prove an infinite existence is a moot argument. That's like saying that dinosaurs may not have existed because scientist can't prove that they breathed fire. Yeah, that's because scientists never claimed they could breath fire.

 

[Trident1]

Save your stories for Satan.

:1orglaugh

 

[Nokternal]

Er, how could someone come back from the dead & say "sorry guys, there is just a big nothingness". How can a biological creature exist when all its functions necessary for keeping it alive cease? The onus is on those of a religious faith to prove that life after death exists, as yet this has not happened. & you cannot compare a scientific theory like evolution to the bible, the bible has no measurable data within its pages. Show me proof for gods existence please. There isn't any.
It appears you do not believe any scientifically researched theory? Or is it only the ones that relate to religion?
Science is not attempting to disprove god, but explain the world by researching the physical nature of things, by testing hypotheses against this measurable data. It relies on evidence, as a consequence it may debunk much religious theory as there is no evidence for it. That is fine if you are religious because faith, by its very nature, does not need evidence that would be acceptable to the scientific world. But it wasn't faith that invented vaccines, it wasn't faith that invented aeroplanes, it wasn't faith that invented the internet. It was science.

Couldn't have said it better^

But this still leaves room for the possibility he is real.

But an infinitesimally small probability that he is real.

Well if the dragon in your shed did create the universe, then he IS God and he chose to appear to you in that form. And the universe had to be created, otherwise it always has existed and that is as outrageous as believing in God

Just because the universe may not have always existed does not mean a God had to have created it. Once again we are talking about an event in nature which we can not yet understand, so people are trying to explain it away with fairy tales like god.
The Ancient Greeks tried to explain lightning and storms by saying that Gods were at war with each other on top of a mountain called Olympus which was unreachable by man.. have we not progressed at all from this type of make believe reasoning in thousands of years?

 

[pornophile]

Couldn't have said it better^



But an infinitesimally small probability that he is real.



Just because the universe may not have always existed does not mean a God had to have created it. Once again we are talking about an event in nature which we can not yet understand, so people are trying to explain it away with fairy tales like god.
The Ancient Greeks tried to explain lightning and storms by saying that Gods were at war with each other on top of a mountain called Olympus which was unreachable by man.. have we not progressed at all from this type of make believe reasoning in thousands of years?

What is so fairy tale-ish about some intelligent force creating the universe? It makes a whole lot more sense than it just popping into existence out of nothing. As Spock would say, it is only logical.

 

[mrtrebus]

What is so fairy tale-ish about some intelligent force creating the universe? It makes a whole lot more sense than it just popping into existence out of nothing. As Spock would say, it is only logical.

So what created this intelligent force?

& what is logical about it? The key issue is one of humanity trying to find a single purpose in everything. I do not see there as being any purpose to the universe or it having some supernatural designer, who of course would have to have been designed itself etc etc

Its just a bunch of stuff that happened. . .

God is the ultimate fairy tale. A belief in a being that created everything, set down a load of rules & rewards the good people with eternal life & the bad with eternal damnation has no logic!

 

[pornophile]

Instead of going on and on about "well who created the creator? and who created him, and him, and so on" lets just apply Occam's razor and say God is the origin of everything, hence nothing created him. Its logical because based on our human experience, its impossible for things, however simple, to just materialize out of nowhere.

I know everyone thinks God has to answer your prayers and all but as some others have said, we don't know the intentions of such a being and can't assume it would even consider trying to help us.

 

[mrtrebus]

Instead of going on and on about "well who created the creator? and who created him, and him, and so on" lets just apply Occam's razor and say God is the origin of everything, hence nothing created him. Its logical because based on our human experience, its impossible for things, however simple, to just materialize out of nowhere.

I'm sorry no. You cannot sweep that argument under the carpet. If you are proposing that the universe is such a marvellous complex thing that it had to have been designed you have to explain who designed the designer which must also be a marvellous complex thing. To ignore that negates your argument for a god in the first place! You can't then say "Its logical because based on our human experience, its impossible for things, however simple, to just materialize out of nowhere." when you've basically said that god did! You can't just change the bloody rules because they don't fit your argument!

 

[BlueBalls]

I'm sorry no. You cannot sweep that argument under the carpet. If you are proposing that the universe is such a marvellous complex thing that it had to have been designed you have to explain who designed the designer which must also be a marvellous complex thing. To ignore that negates your argument for a god in the first place! You can't then say "Its logical because based on our human experience, its impossible for things, however simple, to just materialize out of nowhere." when you've basically said that god did! You can't just change the bloody rules because they don't fit your argument!

Well said.

 

[pornophile]

That would make perfect sense if our physical laws worked over God. But if they did, he wouldn't be able to create the universe. Whatever universe, realm, dimension God exists in, it must have a completely different set of physics or maybe none at all. The universe on the other hand was "born" with all the sets of laws and limitations that govern it today. So you can't assume God had to be created in the way we define creation.

 

[Facetious]

I always contest that Atheism is in fact an faith . . . they have yet to prove a thing.


jus sayin :dunno:

 

[catsai]

i got a third eye, between the eyes its bent with the shadow. im like the cat buddha. http://home.comcast.net/~dayamati/doris_buddha.jpg

 

[Nokternal]

Instead of going on and on about "well who created the creator? and who created him, and him, and so on" lets just apply Occam's razor and say God is the origin of everything, hence nothing created him. Its logical because based on our human experience, its impossible for things, however simple, to just materialize out of nowhere.

By this argument you are presenting it is equally logical to say nothing created the universe, it was just always here.

That would make perfect sense if our physical laws worked over God. But if they did, he wouldn't be able to create the universe. Whatever universe, realm, dimension God exists in, it must have a completely different set of physics or maybe none at all. The universe on the other hand was "born" with all the sets of laws and limitations that govern it today. So you can't assume God had to be created in the way we define creation.

You really are making up the rules as you go..
As for the limitations of the universe, there are none. There are only the limits of human perception.