Michael Moore

[georges]

And Georges... Guess what? It seems you're wrong, because there are actually Social Democrats within the Democratic party. How do I know? Because the Social Democrats here in Sweden support them, the Democrats, and Kerry.

Democratic Socialists of America - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

Excerpt from the article:
Many Democratic Socialists are also members of the Democratic Party.

Yes but your swedish socialist can't vote for them.Supporting is one thing and voting is another.
Not everyone share socialist ideas remember America isn't Europe and isn't Sweden.What you would like to happen will never happen.

 

[Starman]

Originally posted by georges
Yes but your swedish socialist can't vote for them.Supporting is one thing and voting is another.
Not everyone share socialist ideas remember America isn't Europe and isn't Sweden.What you would like to happen will never happen.

And what exactly is it you think I would like to happen? Remember that I am a Social DEMOCRAT. I've already explained in another thread that Socialism is a very broad term, with three different main branches.

And you can't vote either...

 

[georges]

And what exactly is it you think I would like to happen? Remember that I am a Social DEMOCRAT. I've already explained in another thread that Socialism is a very broad term, with three different main branches.

And you can't vote either...

I have family in the us.All my family members who live in the us will vote with no exception.

 

[member5726]

Tell me why Georges you have always to say about Kerry medals, and what he have or hav'ent in Vietnam. But still, you have nothing to say about Bush ways to handle economy, education and social security... I would really like if you could answer what Bush have done in those department... i really don't care about Kerry anymore, i just want you to show us, what Bush have done in his four years in the US...

Now try to answer... and don't try the change the subject because i'm gonna respond with the same question everytime.

 

[georges]

Tell me why Georges you have always to say about Kerry medals, and what he have or hav'ent in Vietnam. But still, you have nothing to say about Bush ways to handle economy, education and social security... I would really like if you could answer what Bush have done in those department... i really don't care about Kerry anymore, i just want you to show us, what Bush have done in his four years in the US...

Now try to answer... and don't try the change the subject because i'm gonna respond with the same question everytime.

here is my answer.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...mp;sid=96378798

WASHINGTON - President Bush (news - web sites) leads Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites), 52 percent to 41 percent, while independent Ralph Nader (news - web sites) got 3 percent in a national poll taken during the Republican National Convention that ended Thursday.

The Time magazine poll of 926 likely voters was taken Aug. 31-Sept 2, during the convention and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

Bush had 46 percent, Kerry had 44 percent and Nader 5 percent in a Time poll taken just before the convention

Some good economic news, heard this on the radio today:
-unemployment down to 5.4%
-144,000 new jobs added last month
-highest home ownership in history (70% of Americans)
-low mortgage and interest rates
-73,000 jobs added in July
-payrolls have grown 12 straight months
All good news for Americans, all bad news for John Kerry.

IMO, this has been helped by the tax cuts, among other things, as well as a natural rebound after a 9/11-enhanced slowdown. Continuing economic challenges include high energy and healthcare costs, the deficit, some trade squabbles, and the still-lagging economic performance of some of our biggest trading partners.

To check out a more in-depth economic analysis, try this:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm543.cfm

 

[Starman]

Originally posted by georges
I have family in the us.All my family members who live in the us will vote with no exception.

I do not have family in US, but I do have friends there, and also an ex-girlfriend.

 

[Starman]

Read this Georges, before you call me Socialist or Communist again.

Reformists and Revolutionary Socialists criticise Social Democrats for being so dependent on the Capitalist system that they become indistinguishable from modern Liberals. Many Social Democrats explicitly renounce the label "Socialist" and the goal of achieving a socialist state. This willingness to work within the Capitalist system rather than trying to modify or overturn it leads many on the left to accuse modern Social Democratic parties of betraying their principles.

 

[Starman]

Originally posted by Dolman
Well, the point is no matter WHO is president, there is going to be alot of stuff the public doesn't know. I have realised that, and gotten over it. I am now moved on with my life.....

THAT, is why I trust their decisions when war is concerned.

I do not intend to harm your feelings, but I can't tip-toeing around them all the time either, so I'll tell you this bluntly. I have low tolerance for "sheep". I think people should think for themselves, that free thought is important. Blindly playing "follow the leader" creates monsters like Hitler.

Originally posted by Dolman
Bush got yelled at for going to war. If kerry was president instead, and DIDN'T go to war, HE would have gotten shit too.

That is what happens in war. You get a divided nation, but what can you do....

I'm not completely sure how Kerry will perform as a president, but almost anyone would do better than Bush. Period.

And I will tell you that there are more than one way to perform a war, different ways for different situations. When it comes to terrorism it's the Intelligence war that works, not the "lets bomb the whole country into pieces" tactics. It does only, I repeat only, help to create more terrorists. Period. (Check my earlier posts.)

Originally posted by Dolman in the Michael Moore thread
BTW - no offense, but I dont think there is any way you would be better than Bush. None of us realise what the presidents job consists of. Im sure its not easy AT ALL, which is why so few people want the duty.

Is that's a challenge?

See: Starman for President - http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19407

 

[Brino]

I can back up my arguments, look:
For Immediate Release
Aug 31, 2004 Contact: Press Office
202-646-5172

KERRY SHOULD REMOVE SILVER STAR CITATION FROM HIS INTERNET SITE PENDING REVIEW BY U.S. NAVY

Combat “V” Never Awarded with Silver Star

Former Navy Secretary Lehman Never Approved Citation

Additional Questions Remain Over Service Medal and Purple Hearts

(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, today called on Senator John Kerry to remove the Silver Star citation from his political campaign Internet site pending a review of the granting of the award by the U.S. Navy.

On August 18, 2004, Judicial Watch filed a complaint and request for investigation and final disposition of awards granted to Kerry with the Inspectors General of the Department of Defense and the Department of the Navy, as well as the Chief of Naval Operations and the Navy’s Board of Decorations and Medals. See the complaint by clicking here.

Senator Kerry’s DD Form 214 (a Defense Department form detailing a veteran’s service upon separation from the military) lists his “Silver Star with Combat ‘V’” and is posted on the Internet at JohnKerry.com. The Combat “V” device is never awarded with the nation’s third highest award for heroism.

Journalist Thomas Lipscomb, writing in the Chicago Sun-Times quoted a Navy spokesperson stating: “The Navy has never issued a ‘Combat V’ to anyone for a Silver Star.” Additionally, former Navy Secretary John Lehman was quoted with respect to the Silver Star citation as saying: “It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written by me.”

Furthermore, Senator Kerry’s records also reflect the award of a Vietnam Service Medal with 4 bronze stars. Military experts consulted by Judicial Watch believe Kerry’s brief tour of duty in Vietnam would have merited no more than 2 bronze stars on a Vietnam Service Medal. Many Swift Boat Veterans have questioned the circumstances of Kerry’s Purple Heart awards.

“There is something amiss in Senator Kerry’s service records. John Kerry should stop touting an award that has never been awarded to anyone in the U.S. Navy. The U.S. Navy needs to get on the ball and thoroughly scrub John Kerry’s service record by conducting a complete investigation of Kerry’s service,” stated Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “And, of course, John Kerry may answer many of these questions by authorizing the release of all his service and medical records,” Fitton added.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/3806.shtml

This proves nothing! It's just a review, a review that might say he did earn his medals! Did you ever think of that?

 

[Brino]

Kerry's campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentional self-inflicted wound...
Kerry received Purple Heart for wounds suffered on 12/2/68...
In Kerry's own journal written 9 days later, he writes he and his crew, quote, 'hadn't been shot at yet'...
Funny how even GWB commented that the Swift boat crew ad was inappropriate, but no one on Kerry's side has taken Michael Moore to task over being inappropriate. Then people like you say that the GOP is only running "smear campaigns." Riiiiight. But since the Swift boat vets that produced the ads are ALSO vietnam vets, don't they deserve the same respect you feel Kerry should get? Considering he called ALL of them war criminals after getting out of vietnam, he lost all respect decades ago. Smear campaign? He did it to himself. Kerry decided to run on his war hero platform, a position he actively campaigned AGAINST when he came back from Vietnam.
Considering that the dems have yet to run on any actual ISSUES, then their whole campaing has been built on Kerry's 4 month stint in the Vietnam war and smearing everything GWB has done. Kind of the pot calling the kettle black, if you ask me. I don't remember this level of indignation from people like you with Moore, Soros, or Moveon.org.

The republicans have made Kerry's war record the issue by attacking it! Kerry really isnt running on his war record he's running on the platform of domestic reform! It's the republicans attacking Kerry's war service that has caused Kerry to talk about it. And another thing, even some of the swift boat veterans said right after Vietnam that they were shot at and that Kerrry was shot at and then changed their stories 30 years later so they could attack Kerry. Some of the Swift Boat Veterans are even quoted as saying Kerry was a hero!

All of these Swift Boat Veterans are attacking Kerry because of what he did after the war when he called them War criminals! But you know what the funny thing is!? When Kerry called them war criminals he was just repeating what other soldiers had told him! When he was describing what happened over there he was just relaying what other soldiers had told him they saw! So these Swift Boat Veterans are lying because they dont want somebody who called them war criminals to be president!

 

[Brino]

There are a few things you left out georges!

Some good economic news, heard this on the radio today:
-unemployment down to 5.4%
-144,000 new jobs added last month
-73,000 jobs added in July

Yes jobs were created but the number of jobs created were well below expectations! Bush PROMISED more jobs than what we actually got!

-payrolls have grown 12 straight months

Payrolls for CEO's have grown not the middle class!

 

[georges]

I do not intend to harm your feelings, but I can't tip-toeing around them all the time either, so I'll tell you this bluntly. I have low tolerance for "sheep". I think people should think for themselves, that free thought is important. Blindly playing "follow the leader" creates monsters like Hitler.

I'm not completely sure how Kerry will perform as a president, but almost anyone would do better than Bush. Period.

And I will tell you that there are more than one way to perform a war, different ways for different situations. When it comes to terrorism it's the Intelligence war that works, not the "lets bomb the whole country into pieces" tactics. It does only, I repeat only, help to create more terrorists. Period. (Check my earlier posts.)

Is that's a challenge?

See: Starman for President - http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19407

There is no diplomacy with terrorists and dictators. People who think this have not understand how to deal with terrorism.Killing terrorists and dicators is a mandatory.
Sheep are the ones who follows Moore Bullshit and take it as holy graal.
Look in WWII, Japan didn't want to surrender so it received two nuclear bombs and who deciced that a good democrat Harry S Truman (i have more respect for him than for clinton and kerry together). Stop talking bs about bush.THe fact that he fights terrorism by all the means is something bad:wtf:
On which earth are you? In your peaceful Sweden? People in the us aren't concerned by Sweden they are concerned by their safety and want terrorism ending once for all. It is not with the peaceful methods that you will solve the problems.
You speak like a child when you say that following a leader is creating monster. Hilter was extreme he wrote Mein Kampf. So why saying so much childish bullshit on a us president ??? Someone told you to do so maybe???
Look at fdr everyone supported him, same goes with truman, kennedy, bush sr, reagan and clinton .So where is the big deal starman???
Don't put everyone in the same bag starman:nono:
Kerry wanted to fuck up the army when he was a senator so how would people elect an idiot that want to weaken the army can you explain me that??
Kerry also cheated for his medals so who wants such an unhonest candidate?
You maybe would like to see Kerry president because you want the us to be like your beloved Sweden.Be sure that will never happen.

 

[georges]

There are a few things you left out georges!
Yes jobs were created but the number of jobs created were well below expectations! Bush PROMISED more jobs than what we actually got!
Payrolls for CEO's have grown not the middle class!

fact that he created jobs.
How can you say that the number of jobs was well below expectation?Have you got proofs to say that or are you Mrs Irma?

 

[georges]

This proves nothing! It's just a review, a review that might say he did earn his medals! Did you ever think of that?

It prouves enough. Kerry is a liar.Three months on the field is ridiculous. He asked for his medals.What a sign of weakness!When you are brave the medals are given to you because you desserve to them.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

http://www.zipperfish.com/free/yaafm9.html

 

[Dolman]

Part 2


Bush ran 3 businesses into the ground before becoming President, couldn't it be likely that he has now destroyed the budget and economy in the country as well? Getting USA into very costly wars doesn't really help either.


We were talking about small business, and you wrote that your Dad has a (small) business where "He does restaurant repair, at big name, expensive restaurants(Red lobster, applebees, longhorn, pizza hut, etc)". And that "THEY are all doing GREAT as well." And I repeat once again, since when has these "big name" restaurants been considered small businesses? There are "big name", the word BIG, as in big business. You are trying to prove your point that small business are doing well by mentioning several big businesses. Where's the logic in that? And ONLY comparing with your Dad's (small) business, is not sufficient.

So nowhere in my earlier posts have I stated that your dad runs a Pizza Hut restaurant. You made a mistake when you read my post. I'm gonna tell you, as I often tell others (no names mentioned), READ my posts CAREFULLY. Okay? Misunderstandings are one of my major pet-peeves, I don't want to have to spank you! :tongue:

I guess some of the porn-fanatics on this board arent as smart as I thought they were

Let me explain this, ONCE more......listen carefully.

My dad has his own (small) business. NEVER has his business been as good as this year. He is prospering beyond belief.

^This part was referring to those who thought the economy was 'so bad' for small business'

He does restaurant repair, at big name, expensive restaurants(Red lobster, applebees, longhorn, pizza hut, etc)

THEY are all doing GREAT as well. In his line of work, he sees and talks to ALOT of people.

Now, ^THIS^ part is explaining how these, VERY popular restaurants, are doing VERY good. They are having a GREAT year, which is funny considering how 'bad' the economy is.

Now I still dont see what is so hard to understand about this.

First- I explained how my dad HAS a small business, therefore has to deal with small business issues. (loans, taxes, etc)

Then- I stated how huge chains of resaurants are doing so good in this time of 'bad economy'.....therefor attacking the claim of the economy being bad on small business', AND the claim that the economy is bad.

No this is just one area, but a pretty damn large area. He travels across state, and these resaurants are owned by VERY big companies, with their restaurants distributed across the united states.

Like I said, its not a surefire way, but it IS in fact one example of a decent/good economy.

 

[member5726]

I knew you would do it Georges... so i repeat my question... what good Bush have in education... tell me ! Because i don't see anything about that in your answers....

Btw, why you guys keep talking about Kerry and what he have done some forty years ago... you should be talking about real issues...

 

[Dolman]

Yes jobs were created but the number of jobs created were well below expectations! Bush PROMISED more jobs than what we actually got!

Come on....Focus on what HAPPENED, not what he promised. Promising like that is like a guideline. SHIT happens.

example:

Your out of town. You call your girlfriend "Honey, I'll be home in two hours" The meeting you were in lasted longer than you expected, bad traffic, maybe some accidents happened, maybe you got pulled over. You end up getting home in 3 1/2 hours. Should your girlfriend break up with you, because you didnt come through perfectly with what you promised?

Bush did not expect 911, along with a slew of other things.

 

[Dolman]

Fine! I made a mistake based off of what Starman had said! Although you still havnt answered me! Just because your fathers small business is doing well doesnt mean everybody else is doing well too! Think of others instead of just your father and yourself!

From one page back....

I realise that just because the economy around me seems good, it might not be like that everywhere.

btw The majority of the biased news networks are conservative!

HAHAH, right..... wanna give some examples?

Ok Do you even know what the Constitution of the United States says or do you just not pay attention to history!? Do you even know what the seperation of Church and State is!? The Constitution says Church and State shall stay seperate! It says this so that people in this country can have freedom of religon no matter what the religon may be! Now this ammendment is broken a lot by people in power but nevertheless it's still there and still supposed to be followed! That's why the Ten Commandments was taken out of that Courthouse and that's why the Bible and your religious views should have nothing to do with gays getting married!

AGAIN, can you read brino? I know about the seperation of church and state. I am saying, that they will ALWAYS be intermingled. THEY ARE NOW, AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE.

Example, you ask?

Sure.

You and I both vote. MY religion effects what I vote for. YOUR religion, or lack thereof, effects what YOU vote for. To tell me otherwise would be a bold lie.

Now like I said its nice to think they stay seperate, but they aren't. If you are asking people opinions, then right there you are asking people who are all effecting by different religions and beliefs.
THAT is why this gay marriage thing has been a big deal.

BRINO: Ok, you say gay marriage shouldnt effect me. 'it doesn't harm you!!"

Ok, then how about this. We legalize that people can marry animals. Next we say large groups of people can all be married as one. How would you feel?(maybe a bad example, but I'm trying to think of something that you personally, would be against....as some are with gay marriage)

It is as simple as this:

1- I do not think homosexuality is right/moral. Im not going to ridicule someone because they are gay, but it IS MY OPINION to think its wrong

2- THEY want to change something that 'my' kind have established. That makes me feel like my kind are having to conform to fit THEIR needs. Civil unions are fine with me, so why do they need the term 'marriage' ?

Well guess what brainiac, there are a lot of things that go against the bible's beliefs but still happen everyday! Murder, Rape, Theft, Abortion, etc. are all against the Bible's views yet they still happen because there out of our control! Get over it! The Bible isnt right on everything! I know saying that is going to piss you off but it's the truth! And before you write me off as being a typical athiest liberal keep this in mind, I actaully come from a Born Again Christian family who are all republican and go to church every sunday so I kinda know what I'm talking about when it comes to the seperation of Church and State!

I dont care what religion you are.

The Bible isnt right on everything!

It is my opinion that it is. To my knowledge it hasn't been proved wrong either.....

AND, you didnt answer my question, you just rambled that whole paragraph.



I said...

Us 'religious' people that DONT want gays getting married are forcing our beliefs down YOUR throat?? Thats what you think, right?

So, by your same theory, 'YOU' people, who want to CHANGE laws so gays can marry, are forcing YOUR beliefs down OUR throats. PERIOD.

You know this is true, so can we end this arguement now??

Wasnt your point about biased news!? And since when is the Howard Stern show considered news!? I mean I know they give the news at the end of the show for like 5 minutes but c'mon Howard Stern is not a news source and as far as I know there is no news on FM Radio!

I dont remember(correct me if I'm wrong) saying Stern was news. I was/am talking about MEDIA in general, which does not include just news...

If you bothered to actually look up the statistics youd see that under Reagan the economy was bad, and then under Bush Sr it got even worse, but then Clinton came and the economy got better, after that Bush Jr. came (with the same policies of his father) and the economy got bad again! You dont have to be an expert to notice a trend!

Ya know....here is what I find funny. I admitted to you guys that I knew about jack shit about economics. I have honestly only been interested/learning about politics the last 3 weeks of my life. So I told you that, yet STILL, the main, and practically only thing you guys can come up with in your favor is the economy.(which i still didn't believe you on totally, and rightfully so I think....)

Check these stats out, if needed I can state where these are each from.....

Unemployment Rate -
Jan 2004: 5.6% (After GWBush's 1st three years)
Change in rate from prior year (Jan '03-'04): 0.3%, Decrease

Jan 1996: 5.6% (After Bill Clinton's 1st three years)
Change in rate from prior year (Jan '95-'96): 0.0%, No change

* The Unemployement Rate is the same after GWBush's 1st three years as it was after Bill Clinton's 1st three years.
* The Unemployment rate steadily declined in the third year with GWBush while it remained unchanged in Bill Clinton's third year.




Poverty Rate For Families (Two-Year Average) -
2001-2002: 9.40% (GWBush's 1st two years)
1993-1994: 12.95% (Clinton's 1st two years)
1993-2000: 10.50% (Average for Clinton's full eight years)

* The % of families living in poverty is lower after two years under GWBush than after two years under Bill Clinton - even lower than 7 out of 8 of Clinton's years in office.




Percent of People Below 50 Percent of Poverty Level (Two-Year Average) -
2001-2002: 4.95% (GWBush's 1st two years)
1993-1994: 6.05% (Clinton's 1st two years)
1993-2000: 5.31% (Average for Clinton's full eight years)

* The % of people living in deep poverty is lower after two years under GWBush than after two years under Bill Clinton - even lower than the average across Clinton's entire TWO terms of office... AND lower than ANY of Clinton's 1st six years in office.




Homeownership Rate -
GWBush's 1st three years:
4th Quarter 2000: 67.5% (before GWBush)
4th Quarter 2003: 68.6% (after 3 years of GWBush)
Difference: +1.1%

Bill Clinton's 1st three years:
4th Quarter 1992: 64.4% (before Clinton)
4th Quarter 1995: 65.1% (after 3 years of Clinton)
Difference: +0.7%

* The Homeownership Rate is higher under GWBush's 1st three years than under Bill Clinton's 1st three years.
* The Homeownership Rate grew MORE in the 1st three years with GWBush than in the 1st three years with Bill Clinton.




Inflation Rate -
GWBush's 1st three years:
Jan 2001: 3.73% (before GWBush)
Jan 2004: 1.93% (after 3 years of GWBush)
Difference: 1.8% Decrease

Bill Clinton's 1st three years:
Jan 1993: 3.26% (before Clinton)
Jan 1996: 2.73% (after 3 years of Clinton)
Difference: 0.53% Decrease

* The Inflation Rate is lower after three years of GWBush than it was after Bill Clinton's first three years.
* The Inflation Rate declined over three times greater under GWBush than under Bill Clinton.

* "2004 Will Be the U.S.'s Best Year Economically in Last 20 Years" ~ The Conference Board's revised forecast, December 2003.
* Manufacturing is at 20-year record highs.
* GDP for the second-half of 2003 grew an incredible 6 percent while inflation was held under 1 percent.
* Real private-sector GDP has expanded at a 5.3 percent annual rate since the Bush tax cuts were passed while in the prior six quarters private-sector GDP averaged only 2.5 percent.
* Foreign exports have been increasing and have actually doubled since six months ago.
* The Federal deficit is estimated to be $477 billion in 2004 but then drop to $362 billion for 2005. The current 2004 deficit is 4.2% of the GDP which makes it smaller, compared to the GDP, than what it was in the late '80s and early '90s.
* The stock markets (i.e. your pensions, IRAs, 401(k)s and college saving plans) have rebounded solidly and are approaching three-year highs.

Economically, things are looking good and getting better.


And so even though GWBush "wrecked" the economy, caused a long and deep recession and threw 4 gabzillion people out of work - in just two years GWBush was still able to keep the poverty rate LOWER than what Clinton had done in almost EIGHT years?
* And all of this IN SPITE OF 9-11, which annhialated one of America's most important financial centers.
* AND in spite of waging two major overseas wars to overthrow two terrorist regimes.
* AND in spite of completely revamping and reconstructing our national security and intelligence agencies to defend against constant domestic terrorist threats.
* And yet we STILL have (as the numbers show) a far BETTER economy after three years of GWBush than when he first took office.
* And, as shown above, GWBush has had a GREATER positive impact on the economy than what Clinton was able to accomplish in his first three years.


Now I bet you'll never hear ANY of this by listening to CNN/NBC/CBS/ABC/MSNBC/NPR or by reading USATODAY/NYTimes/WashPost/LATimes.

Interesting, eh?


Here's one more

http://macheteoftruth.typepad.com/the_machete_of_truths_/2004/03/clinton_economy.html

 

[Brino]

fact that he created jobs.
How can you say that the number of jobs was well below expectation?Have you got proofs to say that or are you Mrs Irma?

Every ounce of news I get is from CNN or some other Cable news network! Thats where I found out that the jobs created were well below expectations! But if you need proof then I'll find it for you even though you wont believe the proof I give you! So stayed tuned for yet another shred of evidence you can call a lie!