Brino said:
You obviously dont know shit about the Military! Guess what georges you can't ask for medals thus Kerry couldnt have asked for his medals! The military decides whether you get a medal not you! The military saw fit to give Kerry medals so everytime you say Kerry lied about his medals your saying that the military lied about the reasons they gave kerry those medals!
Please keep stop talking childish useless bullshit Brino. I know more about you when it comes to us military.You don't know what is the air national guard, do you? Have you ever heard of the f102 delta daggers and f106 delta darts??? Probably never because you don't care about how was composed the us army at that time. There were not only the marines and the gis but all the air force, navy, usmc and ang support helping marines and gis to kill the viets.
Bush was in the ang and he was one of the best pilot in the ang, he was flying the f102 one of the most dangerous planes at its time.To be a pilot you need to have a brain and a lot of physical resistance.
ANG squadrons were always on alert, some of them entered in action in vietnam, the people who flew delta daggers were highly experienced pilots.
here is a repost
ok, since we are being shown kerry's war record, let's go back and look at Bush's...
A 1971 ANG evaluation said Bush had the potential to "promote well ahead of his contemporaries" and added, "Lt. Bush's main strengths are his eagerness to participate in the unit's activities and his ability to work harmoniously with others." A 1970 letter recommending him for a promotion from second to first lieutenant called him "a dynamic outstanding young officer." Perhaps you mean the letter from the then Lt. Col Jerry Killian saying "Lt. Bush is possessed of sound judgment, yet is a tenacious competitor and an aggressive pilot. He is mature beyond his age and experience level."?
I am aware of the controversy once he requested transfer to equivalent duty with the 187th, and understand that people have questions. However, I would would question the assertaitions stated elswhere that he recieved poor evaluations and was frequently AWOL.
It has been said that Bush joined the ANG to skirt duty. But if you're trying to skirt combat duty, there are safer ways of doing it that volunteering for flight training in a fighter jet that is known to be extremely dangerous (the F102 killed over 70 pilots in that time period), in a guard unit known to depoy fighters to shadow MiGs in Vietnam, and then excel at being a pilot (which would guarantee you a tour flying in combat).
AerospaceWeb.org, which is an apolitical, non-profit aerospace education and information site, did some research into the role of the F-102 in Vietnam, and the role of Bush's ANG unit during the period. Here are some excerpts:
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It really bothers me that a coward like George W. Bush spent the Vietnam War training to fly old and useless planes in Texas while John Kerry was heroically risking his life in combat and got three purple hearts!
- Jennifer Braun
We normally shy away from the world of politics, but we get variations of this kind of question regularly and feel it necessary to clarify some information. We'll do our best to avoid bringing our own political biases into this article since we are more interested in defending an "old and useless" aircraft than any particular politician! George W. Bush's military service began in 1968 when he enlisted in the Texas Air National Guard after graduating with a bachelor's degree in history from Yale University. The aircraft that he was ultimately trained to fly was the F-102 Delta Dagger. A number of sources have claimed that Bush sought service in the National Guard to avoid being sent to Vietnam, and that the F-102 was a safe choice because it was an obsolete aircraft that would never see any real combat. However, those perceptions turn out to be incorrect, as will be seen shortly.
It is a common misconception that the Air National Guard was a safe place for military duty during the Vietnam War. In actuality, pilots from the 147th Fighter Interceptor Group [Bush's unit], as it was called at the time, were actually conducting combat missions in Vietnam at the very time Bush enlisted. In fact, F-102 squadrons had been stationed in South Vietnam since March 1962. It was during this time that the Kennedy administration began building up a large US military presence in the nation as a deterrent against North Vietnamese invasion.
F-102 squadrons continued to be stationed in South Vietnam and Thailand throughout most of the Vietnam War. The planes were typically used for fighter defense patrols and as escorts for B-52 bomber raids. While the F-102 had few opportunities to engage in its primary role of fighter combat, the aircraft was used in the close air support role starting in 1965. Armed with rocket pods, Delta Daggers would make attacks on Viet Cong encampments in an attempt to harass enemy soldiers. Some missions were even conducted using the aircraft's heat-seeking air-to-air missiles to lock onto enemy campfires at night. Though these missions were never considered to be serious attacks on enemy activity, F-102 pilots did often report secondary explosions coming from their targets.
Even in peacetime conditions, F-102 pilots risked their lives on every flight. Only highly-qualified pilot candidates were accepted for Delta Dagger training because it was such a challenging aircraft to fly and left little room for mistakes. According to the Air Force Safety Center, the lifetime Class A accident rate for the F-102 was 13.69 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours, much higher than the average for today's combat aircraft. For example, the F-16 has an accident rate of 4.14, the F-15 is at 2.47, the F-117 at 4.07, the S-3 at 2.6, and the F-18 at 4.9. Even the Marine Corps' AV-8B, regarded as the most dangerous aircraft in US service today, has a lifetime accident rate of only 11.44 mishaps per 100,000 flight hours. The F-102 claimed the lives of many pilots, including a number stationed at Ellington during Bush's tenure. Of the 875 F-102A production models that entered service, 259 were lost in accidents that killed 70 Air Force and ANG pilots. [I wonder what the statistics were for PCF skippers, pro-rated for serving 1/3 the required length of the standard tour?]
Nevertheless, we have established that the F-102 was serving in combat in Vietnam at the time Bush enlisted to become an F-102 pilot. In fact, pilots from the 147th FIG of the Texas ANG were routinely rotated to Vietnam for combat duty under a program called "Palace Alert" from 1968 to 1970. Palace Alert was an Air Force program that sent qualified F-102 pilots from the ANG to bases in Europe or southeast Asia for periods of three to six months for frontline duty. Fred Bradley, a friend of Bush's who was also serving in the Texas ANG, reported that he and Bush inquired about participating in the Palace Alert program. However, the two were told by a superior, MAJ Maurice Udell, that they were not yet qualified since they were still in training and did not have the 500 hours of flight experience required.
[contrast this with Kerry's volunteering for PCF duty while it was assigned to non-hazardous coastal patrols. Riverine duty wasn't assigned until AFTER Kerry volunteered for the program]
Furthermore, ANG veteran COL William Campenni, who was a fellow pilot in the 111th FIS at the time, told the Washington Times that Palace Alert was winding down and not accepting new applicants.
The point of this discussion is that the military record of George W. Bush deserves a fair treatment. Bush has been criticized for avoiding service in Vietnam, though the evidence proves that the Texas Air National Guard and its F-102 pilots where serving in Vietnam while Bush was in training. Bush has been criticized for using his family influence to obtain his assignment, but the evidence shows that he successfully completed every aspect of the more than two years of training required of him. Bush has been criticized for pursuing a safe and plush position as a fighter pilot, but the evidence indicates the F-102 was a demanding aircraft whose pilots regularly risked their lives. Bush has also been criticized for deserting the Guard before his enlistment was complete, but the evidence shows he was honorably discharged eight months early because his position was being phased out.
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Yes, Bush never actually SW combat, but that's because *after* he finished training, the military started to phase out ANG fighter operations (not before). That was a calculation entertained by most draft eligible men of that generation. You join up to do what you like most or dislike least before you get picked to do what you like least/hate most. Bush apparently wanted to be a fighter pilot, and this was a quick way to become one.
So before you say something brino, back up your arguments.
Bush was in ANG.You probably never heard of it. You maybe don't care of the miltary of your country but many others do.
