Martin Luther King Jr. Remembered

[meesterperfect]

Yes, for something so evil to some, Possibly the most important social movement of our time was born from the Christian faith and a devout Christian. Got it?

No, I don't, because you haven't made a point. I understand you're just trying to be inflammatory but you're doing a dogshit job of that.

Charlie Hustle thats about as clear as can be.
and nothing inflamatory about it.
Same goes for me saying many black people today should try to live up to what his dream was, thats not "yo motherfucker your mommas got a big ass, know what I'm saying ho".
Its not alot of things that he wanted.
Their Not inflamatory, just reality.
it shouldnt bother people either.
you know in the past it was consiidered inflamatory to say the world was round.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

I think this thread has completely deviated from what Maildude intended.

Martin Luther King Jr. would be proud. :thumbsup:

 

[abejarano12]

I find that King's words the night before his death were some of the most lovely words ever spoken when he said "We as a people will get to the promised land." He was not talking about African-Americans he was talking about every race,sex, nationality. He is without a doubt one of the reason America has the ideals of freedon and equality.

 

[pete rose]

Pete with all due respect, I hope someone else is placing your bets because you are not at your sharpest tonight.

oh man that was a cutting pete rose joke

The question was posed on this thread "What does his legacy mean to you?" As a someone that believes in a higher power his legacy is that Christianity brings forth positive results for societal change.

Well thank you for showing your true intentions, that's brave of you. Now we can stop listening to you.

I'll bet you think you're really smart and we must be in awe of your Obama-like eloquence...guess what?

Oh man, now Obama is to blame...it must be my rampant love for communism.

Charlie Hustle thats about as clear as can be.
and nothing inflamatory about it.
Same goes for me saying many black people today should try to live up to what his dream was, thats not "yo motherfucker your mommas got a big ass, know what I'm saying ho".
Its not alot of things that he wanted.
Their Not inflamatory, just reality.
it shouldnt bother people either.
you know in the past it was consiidered inflamatory to say the world was round.

I'm sure you know what is best for the black community.

 

[MasterBaiterr]

He was dead before I was born. nothing personal against him, he was a very good man, his legacy means nothing to me. There are alot of ppl who did much greater things then him and have been forgotten over time. What country I live in or who was repressed in it in the past makes a shit less to me. Every country has had racial/religous prosecution. Who fkn cares. Just makes me sick when I hear abled-bodied african americans saying the reason they cant be succesful is because they are black and bcuz of what happened 40 years ago.

 

[pete rose]

Don't forget the 200-400 some odd years before that, too.

 

[MasterBaiterr]

Don't forget the 200-400 some odd years before that, too.

200-400 years. anything else? cuz my ancestors didnt leave ireland til 1900, Cry baby american blacks:2 cents:

 

[Hot Mega]

He was dead before I was born. nothing personal against him, he was a very good man, his legacy means nothing to me.

You could have stopped there as the rest of what you say has nothing to do with the man.

There are alot of ppl who did much greater things then him and have been forgotten over time.

Dude you're a kid and you're saying there are "alot" (sic) people did much greater things "then" (sic) him and have been forgotten over time. First of all, if that's the case how on earth do you know about them then. Secondly, we all have our opinions...and like you said he was dead before you were born. So it's quite likely the case based on your statements you didn't care much to learn about him, the movement he lead and the circumstances of the movement. So consistently, you probably have very little basis for how to judge his influence and impact on the circumstances of his time.

Leadership can be bestowed upon any common man and some can be turned into a leader. Great leaders of selfless causes are born though and it virtually doesn't matter the cause. This happened to be his calling. Whenever it's asked of us, what did we do, say or sacrifice to make a difference...In MLK Jr.'s case the overwhelming majority of people who don't have some other predisposition conclude by any standard of reasonable measurement it was quite allot. For that his day is remembered

What country I live in or who was repressed in it in the past makes a shit less to me. Every country has had racial/religous prosecution. Who fkn cares. Just makes me sick when I hear abled-bodied african americans saying the reason they cant be succesful is because they are black and bcuz of what happened 40 years ago.

There are many all over the world who have faced oppression and persecution and in every case those who lead honorable causes for the oppressed and persecuted are recognized for their role. MLK Jr. didn't just speak for the voiceless oppressed and persecuted he identified with. He spoke of a larger call who's influence didn't just stop at the borders of the US. The manner of his leadership didn't just speak for the freedom, justice and equality of the voiceless he represented but to all men. Those who were oppressed and those who were not.

No one's making you care about it though. It's still a free country.

 

[girk1]

As with most secularists, you are trying to separate the man from his faith. I see many posts demeaning those that profess a faith in God on this board. That is very kind of you to honor his memory. But had it not been for his religious convictions and a belief that God created all races to become equal there would not have been the inspiration for him to move forward with his cause. You see, he had great courage and he always stated when asked if he feared for his life that he gained that courage from God. He is always addressed as Rev. King or Dr. King. The "Dr." didn't mean he held a degree from Emory University Dental School. Just as I thought, just the simple reminder that his beliefs were founded in his faith have non-believers and secularists squirming in your seats. I am quite enjoying this actually.

Civil Rights tactics came from two hardly Christian sources as it is known that the philosophy of Thoreau's(hardly a religious man) "Civil Disobedience" & Gandhi(no Christian) were the true source of this movements(Kings) inspiration.

A Philip Randolph(ATHEIST at worst Agnostic) & Bayard Rustin(Gay/Socialist/ATHEIST) were THE main organizers of the MARCH ON WASHINGTON. In Fact the March On Washington was planned by Randolph in 1941 ,but he cancelled then due to concessions from the Administration(Deseregation of the Military & the fact that we were headed to War).

Jo Ann Robinson handed out nearly 40k fliers(to schools & churches) pleading for Mobile residents to boycott the Montgomery Public transit after the Rosa parks incident(This after another successful earlier boycott of Montgomery Gas Stations which MLK had nothing to do with). The Black church took up her cause after seeing how successful it was & voted MLK as their 'spokesperson'. And a great spokesperson he was.


As the church was the absolute center of Black organized life it is not surprising that a Black Minister was chosen as the movements spokesman. A typical flawed Minister was MLK who was just as hypocritical as most Christians I meet.

This is the reason I feel that it should be an EQUAl Rights or Civil Rights day so we will not forget the MAIN organizers & thousands of others who put there sweat,blood & minds to the cause.

You are foolish/ignorant to believe that MLK was simply guided by some Christian principles when he in fact followed the philosophy of a hardly religious man( Thoreau )which had been proven effective by a non Christian (Gandhi). Bayard Rustin(GAy /Socialist/Atheist) & A Phillip Randolph (Agnostic)were certainly not Christians & were the braintrust/organizers of the MArch on Washington.

MLK in typical Christian fashion simply piggybacked a Christain message on a hardly Christian philosphy/movement.

 

[Mrs Jolly]

You do realize Ms. Atheist that this man had a profound faith in God don't you? That probably really gets your goat.

Yes, I am aware of the good reverend and his relationship with religion. And no, it doesn't. Indeed it is a statement that I have heard in various forms many times. (And others have been hearing in this exact form for at least 41 years.) Rather boringly it is continually employed by unigmaginative people as some sort of fresh atttack. From personal experience it is second only to dullards asking for details of what comes before the big bang. Pop over to Richard Dawkins website and have at it if you want to discuss it at length with the unbelievers. I'm sure someone wheeled it out yesterday.

. Oh it matters and it matters a lot. This woman is the most pompous ass I have seen on any message board. And I would love for Dr. King to be alive today to listen to her try and tell him in her smarmy little attitude that his God was some fairy tale.

When religious nutters on wanking websites dwell on fantasies involving me and dead figures from history I get a little creeped out and I must admit a little aroused.

Why would I be intimidated by MLK? He isn't going to hurt me, or me him. (Unlike the christians that hit him, jailed him, stabbed him and shot him.) I imagine I would fail to change his mind on religious matters, but that on our left leaning politics we would have an awful lot of common ground. Is that what you were imagining? To be honest it doesn't that enthralling. Why don't you fill us in on the scenario that you were so obviously getting off on?

Weirdo.

Dr. King spoke of God and Christianity in every speech he gave. It was he that threw his religiousness in your face. I only took the opportunity to remind her and you of that fact. There can be no separation of the man and his deeds from his faith. As much as you may try, his inspiration was The Almighty.

Perhaps it might also be the injustices heaped on black people in the USA by erm, an overwhelmingly christian bunch of evil racists. Why was jesus working on both sides back in the 60's? Your work in answering that question, regardless of how silly it is , is all ahead of you.

Anyway you appear to be a little light on the involvement of the secular left in this movement. I can't be arsed trotting out a history of the movemet here but you should be aware of the fact that the tactic of non violence was the idea and approach laid out by Bayard Rustin and not jesus.

In more general terms the tradition of a successful peaceful civil disobedience outcome is usually allied to the work of Gandhi. I believe his inspriation in turn was the jainist religion, again to press the point, as a method of defeating a gang of anglican christians who were more than happy to use violence. King was the most famous face (and sadly the most visible target) but A Philip Randolph and many others were instrumental in the movement.

Anyway this has by far and away been the most bizarre online experience of my life.

Has anybody else had people spaz out on them in cybespace?

 

[Jack Davenport]

So MLK was just a puppet or a useful figurehead to implement a social movement based on non- Christian or atheistic ideology? Never once did Dr. King source Thoreau as his inspiration. How much Googling did you have to do to try and spin his convictions from those based on Christianity to something that not one person believes was his real motivation. I am very happy that you made this assertion because it is hogwash. If someone on the right had made an equally absurd claim the calls of racism would have been deafening. Congratulations, you win the buffoon award for the day.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Hyperbole much?

Well finally the mad dame has responded. What took you so long? Your thesaurus was on the blink? As I have said before, there is absolutely nothing in any of my postings on this board that will identify me as a devout Christian or a follower of any other religious faith.
To imply otherwise is purely conjecture on your part . But that seems to be your M.O.

I have stated a belief in a supreme being nothing more and if that makes me a " religious nutter" then I will be happy to join the other 75 percent of people that also fit that mold and claim to a belief in God. You are the one with the proverbial chip on your shoulder always demeaning those that profess a belief in God. You Madame are in the minority and thankfully so, because your frustration with all things religious is all so obvious. You probably tell yourself 100 times a day " I love being a gangsta!" but keep up the good work, maybe you"ll eventually convince other weakminded people as yourself to join in your crusade. And then you can enjoy a life free from the poor mislead idiots that dare to believe in a God.

Nice try in trying to lump the Christians all together that opposed Dr. King, but as you have so eagerly asserted here on this board many times as in the case of Islam, a few factions does not a whole religion make.

Now as for what arouses you, please keep that to yourself, some of us haven't had our lunch yet.

 

[Mrs Jolly]

The "religious nutter" bit relates to you being compelled to spend half an evening having an argument about having an argument where none existed in the first place, complete with imagined meetings between historical figures and your projected fantasy regarding myself.

Whichever way you slice it that is a fucking sorry way for a grown man to spend his life.

 

[meesterperfect]

see thats bullshit jolly, the guy makes a statement about how King was a very christian person and how thats was much of his motivation in his actions.
A few start bustin his balls about it, he responds and now you sink to the level of "you have no life".
I guess none of us do then.
that was really lame man.

like it or not BC's original post was right on the money.

 

[Mrs Jolly]

see thats bullshit jolly, the guy makes a statement about how King was a very christian person and how thats was much of his motivation in his actions.
A few start bustin his balls about it, he responds and now you sink to the level of "you have no life".
I guess none of us do then.
that was really lame man.

You woke up halfway through the movie. Go back to the opening reel.

 

[girk1]

So MLK was just a puppet or a useful figurehead to implement a social movement based on non- Christian or atheistic ideology? Never once did Dr. King source Thoreau as his inspiration. How much Googling did you have to do to try and spin his convictions from those based on Christianity to something that not one person believes was his real motivation. I am very happy that you made this assertion because it is hogwash. If someone on the right had made an equally absurd claim the calls of racism would have been deafening. Congratulations, you win the buffoon award for the day.

To Quote MLK:

"As I thought further I came to see that what we were really doing was withdrawing our cooperation from an EVIL SYSTEM.......AT this point I began to think about THOREAU's "Essay On Civil Disobedience". I remembered how, as a college student, I had been moved when I first read this work. I was convinced that what we were doing in Montgomery was related to what THOREAU had expressed . We were simply saying to the White community,(like Thoreau states), "We can no longer lend our cooperation to an EVIL SYSTEM" -MLK - "A Testament Of Hope" :The Essential Writings & Speeches Of MLK Jr(Jamnes Washinton edited) (Page 429)

No need to google when I have 3 books about Dr. King in my library, but I am pissed I actually got up from my desk to reference it for a numskull on the net. In this book of King writings/speeches he references THOREAU no less than on 6 occasions.


Funny how you only mentioned the one White(basically non religious liberal) philosopher who King proudly claimed as a source of inspiration ,but failed to mention the other Blacks I mentioned who were a huge influence on King & the main catalyst behind the monumantal March on Washington like Bayard Rustin(Black/Gay/Socialist/Atheist) & A Phillip Randolph(Agnostic) & the Montgomery Bus Boycotts.

Nor did you mention the non white/ Non Christian Gandhi I mentioned who has his own wing at the MLK center in Atlanta(Which I have actually gone to when visiting my sister who lives there) & who was indisputably THE manifestation of the practicality of Thoreau's 'Civil Disobedience"

Dr King's bravery/skills are unquestionable(Rustin or Randolph could NEVER EVER have moved so many people as King with his great oratory skill), but for you to dismiss his influences & give credit to his Christian beliefs is pure ignorance.

As a Minister, I only said that, Dr King piggybacked "his Christian message" to a philosophy put forth by THOREAU(not religious), proven effective by Gandhi (non Christian) & put in action again by Bayard Rustin(Gay/Socialist/Atheist), A Phillip Randolph(Agnostic),etc....


Now GTFO my face.

 

[meesterperfect]

You woke up halfway through the movie. Go back to the opening reel.

Look man theres really no arguement here.
We all agree King had good intentions.
We disagree on the effectiveness of his actions to an extent.
I personally think alot of blacks have thrown his sacrifices in the trash.

The religious thing, he was a very very christian man.of course that was a huge source inspiration and motivation to him.

nobody can deny that.
That I believe was the spark that created this mess on this thread.

 

[Jack Davenport]

First of all Mr.girk You were the one that joined in this discussion so it was you that got the fuck in my face. Secondly, you are doing a bang up job at lending credibility to those that think Dr. King's ideology was based in Communism and/or Marxism or that he secretly held secular beliefs. You are going around your ass to try and tie his philosophy to anything other than Christianity. It makes me very happy to know that the mere mention of Christianity as the source of his motivations will send you and those that are likeminded scrambling to discredit any such assertion. You and others that hate Christianity have proven my point , now kindly GTFO of mine.

 

[Jack Davenport]

The "religious nutter" bit relates to you being compelled to spend half an evening having an argument about having an argument where none existed in the first place.

Yep. It gets your goat. :1orglaugh

 

[GregCentauro]

I still don't get the argument here.

step 1) The voices in my head tell me to make the world better

step 2) I make the world better

Am I insane? Am I a savior? Who fricking cares? The world is a better place now. Everybody should be happy... :dunno: