CIA Waterboarded Mohammed 183X in 1 Month, Zubaydah 83X in 1 month

[Friday on my mind]

How NYPD torture people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0phtQgBKIqc

You're talking about presumption of innocence and have the gall to call this video torture? You're too biased.


I'd also LOOVE to know which town it is New Jersey that you live.

I will concede maybe some bias against authority like the police and that even calling that vid "torture" might be a bit much.But hope you would agree it was at the least on the face of it uncalled for brutality.But what town I live in in NJ I don't see very relevant.I happen to live in Central Jersey and its relatively suburban but anyone familair with this area knows your never far from urban areas so if the point was I don't know what big cities are like and their problems or haven't been in and worked in them a lot you are way
off base.

And as to the comment about presumption of innoncence lets be clear.I have no problem with people who see things like vids of criminals commiting crimes thinking they very well may be guilty and on the other hand that applies to vids of police beating someone as well.The problem comes in when that becomes dealing out the sentence without due process such as is known as "street justice".Criminals,police who act improperly still should have a day in court and not just beaten on the spot.

Now for others who are arguing the David Koresh case ,I think this idea the ATF shot 1st is not substantiated by any facts I have ever seen.I remeber the vid of ATF guys on the side of the house going to attempt to enter through window being shot through the walls by people inside.
Korseh was known to be buying guns and kits to make them fully automatic and it was also alleged he was having sex with young children in his cult etc,something had to done about him and his followers.But I really don't see how that and a lot of the recent posts in this thread relate to the torture charges against some in the american govt.

And to this idea we who condemn the torture have been "ducking" questions about if it was family member involved I will just say that is not a premise we should even discuss.You don't make national/public policy on such emotional type basis.

And would say some on the other side have been ducking some issues as well.Like how about my post that showed how numerous people have not only been tortured while in US custody but died (murdered).

 

[Facetious]

lol ! just watched some of the Youtube waterboarding videos lol !

Shit, we used to do stuff like that to each other as kids. One game was on land and the other "at sea" e.g. in a community or friends' swimming pool. We'd gang dunk the 'it' guy repeatedly until he said "UNCLE ! "

There was bloody noses, there was forcibly swallowed chlorinated pool water ukey: sprained fingers, blackeyes, skinned knees & elbows, pulled hair, biting, scratching, kicks in the nuts, we'd have lemon and / or lime wars just beaning the tar out of the "it" guy or girl (seriously) when we were 8 to about 15 years old. This one kid "Jim" was amongst the smallest of us all for his age but he was a tough fucker and was the hardest guy to get to submit "uncle" !, well, he almost "allowed" for his much bigger, slightly older brother, "George" to kill him he was so tough!

During one of these "uncle" contests, George almost suffocated little Jim . . . but Jim, gasping for what seemed like his last breath, just prior to us all breaking up the ordeal, Jim manages to vocalize "Fuck You" as he spits in big bro's face ! Then, milliseconds before we stopped George from further harming his little brother (and I mean little in every sense of the word lol !) George proceeds to chuck Jim off of the balcony 10 ' below down onto a hardwood floor ! OK ? 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, & 15 year olds, better than twenty years ago ! Damn those were great memories!

Damn we've become a society of pussies !

 

[Hot Mega]

yeah ok, a similar group.
davidians lived there for 50 years, never a problem.
jim jones brought 1000 people to a armed guarded compound in another country to kill them.
but yeah its similar.
you bought it.
and the atf did contact the media to film it, they did lose the tapes, which they confiscated from the media.
it was all admitted in the hearings.
so was the video of the fbi gasssing and then starting the fire.
which i'm sure you wartched given that you know so much.
and it is a good call be its obvious you know more about it than i do.

Jim Jones went to Guyana and many of his followers followed him there freely to avoid US scrutiny for potential crimes (i.e. kidnapping, abuse, etc.). The overwhelming majority of his followers were forced to commit suicide by cyanide. What makes you think that if cyanide was found in the bodies of Branch Davidians they didn't follow the same routine??? This is the motis operandi for all of these fatalist cults.

Marshall Applewhite and his Heaven's Gate band of fatalist loons offed themselves in '97 using phenobarbital and plastic bags...and guess what? Cyanide was ALSO found in their bodies upon autopsy. What's your conclusion there??

When have you EVER heard of LEAs calling the media to show ANYWHERE when they are conducting an operation??? If they could do every operation without the media present that would be their dream because they have fewer potential victims on scene and no one there beaming the details of their operation into the house of the suspect.

Again, I would ask that you apply just a tad bit of common sense to what you've been reading on the internet because as with the 9/11 conspirators, there is not limit to conspiracy kooks who can make details with simple explanations look suspicious to useful idiots.

These right-wing conspiracy kooks had the Ruby Ridge tragedy all pinned on Clinton for 2 or 3 years under the notion that it happened in '92 and Clinton was elected in '92. It amazingly took 2 or 3 years before someone finally alerted these idiots to the fact that it happened a full year before Clinton took office in Jan. of '93.

Like Churchhill once said, "The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter."

 

[Facetious]

Conspiracy thought is nothing more than a refuge for those who find that their 14 - 15 y/o son or daughter tell the truth more often than their govt. Stop trying to bullshit us with your incessant contrarian know all disposition. It's standard operating procedure for our 'representatives' to lie to us because they can !!
Is it not human nature ? geesh!

I mean seriously, to suggest that govt opposing conclusions are tantamount to loonville is nothing more than your own deficiency, SIR !

 

[Hot Mega]

It's standard operating procedure for our 'representatives' to lie to us because they can !!

These aren't representatives that are being accused of lying in this case. And while I don't "know all"...I do have a few life and career experiences that I've learned quite a bit from.

 

[Philbert]

lol ! just watched some of the Youtube waterboarding videos lol !

Shit, we used to do stuff like that to each other as kids. One game was on land and the other "at sea" e.g. in a community or friends' swimming pool. We'd gang dunk the 'it' guy repeatedly until he said "UNCLE ! "

There was bloody noses, there was forcibly swallowed chlorinated pool water ukey: sprained fingers, blackeyes, skinned knees & elbows, pulled hair, biting, scratching, kicks in the nuts, we'd have lemon and / or lime wars just beaning the tar out of the "it" guy or girl (seriously) when we were 8 to about 15 years old. This one kid "Jim" was amongst the smallest of us all for his age but he was a tough fucker and was the hardest guy to get to submit "uncle" !, well, he almost "allowed" for his much bigger, slightly older brother, "George" to kill him he was so tough!

During one of these "uncle" contests, George almost suffocated little Jim . . . but Jim, gasping for what seemed like his last breath, just prior to us all breaking up the ordeal, Jim manages to vocalize "Fuck You" as he spits in big bro's face ! Then, milliseconds before we stopped George from further harming his little brother (and I mean little in every sense of the word lol !) George proceeds to chuck Jim off of the balcony 10 ' below down onto a hardwood floor ! OK ? 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, & 15 year olds, better than twenty years ago ! Damn those were great memories!

Damn we've become a society of pussies !

I hope I would have the strength NOT to waterboard someone no matter what the circumstances. Even if my own Grandparents would be murdered otherwise. I hope I would stand up for principles.

Ya think?
:rofl:

At least, some media sponsored folks are...the stand-up folks are taking cover and covering their ass while the Obama admin is sucking the extreme Left's dick. No telling how long that attitude will have legs...probably until the next really nasty go-boom leaves body parts scattered around a large area.

 

[NavyBlue]

Ya think?
:rofl:

At least, some media sponsored folks are...the stand-up folks are taking cover and covering their ass while the Obama admin is sucking the extreme Left's dick. No telling how long that attitude will have legs...probably until the next really nasty go-boom leaves body parts scattered around a large area.

You are so right. I am sure GOP leaders wants the same thing you want so Obama can get bounced from the Oval Office in 4 years. Having thousands of Americans killed in another 9/11 tragedy would be small price to pay for the GOP to take the power back from Dems.

 

[Philbert]

You are so right. I am sure GOP leaders wants the same thing you want so Obama can get bounced from the Oval Office in 4 years. Having thousands of Americans killed in another 9/11 tragedy would be small price to pay for the GOP to take the power back from Dems.

What a maroon...!
I was clearly referring to the usual wimp attitude of most liberal thinkers that we need to be kinder and gentler, until they get the shit scared out of them...
To even suggest that I or any of the Republicans want Americans to be killed so they can get back in office shows what a low life you really are...and a shallow thinker as well.
Republicans have given their lives in the millions for this country, and have been loyal and courageous citizens and leaders .
It wasn't a Republican who stated their theory that a good crisis should never be wasted...and there isn't any doubt that the GOP will have a great advantage come the next election cycle with the growing disillusion Americans are feeling with the Obama Amateur Hour administration.
You are a classic weasel and have very little to respect...I know that most Dems don't want people to die in an attack any more than Repubs do; to use such an attack on myself and those who have devoted their lives to the United States, and have had their families serve in the armed forces at extreme cost, shows a lack of humanity and class that typifies the lowest common denominator of political retard.
Was that a little clearer? Did you get the meaning of my words this time?:booty::clown:

 

[D-rock]

We all know giving into your emotions and caving in to mass hysteria or sinking to the lowest common denominator in in a crisis is always preferable to doing the logical, ethical, and moral thing to do while keeping proper foresight. Of course the ends always justify the means.

 

[Hot Mega]

Republicans have given their lives in the millions for this country, and have been loyal and courageous citizens and leaders .
It wasn't a Republican who stated their theory that a good crisis should never be wasted...

For some reason GOPers still think they have the market cornered on patriotism and military service

And yes, a Democrat said a good crisis should never be wasted but it was republicans who said prior to 9/11 we needed a catalyzing event like a new Peal Harbor.

 

[Philbert]

For some reason GOPers still think they have the market cornered on patriotism and military service

And yes, a Democrat said a good crisis should never be wasted but it was republicans who said prior to 9/11 we needed a catalyzing event like a new Peal Harbor.

Ya got some evidence to back that up? Other than the usual overstated unfounded Republican bashing you seem to be leaning towards ?
Like...articles, statistics, anything?
Who said we needed a new Pearl Harbor? You? Got a name?

Are you going with the statement that Republican leaders and myself want to see a successful terrorist attack here in the US so Repubs can win elections? Wishing for dead American Moms, babies, Dads, anyone at all shredded and screaming so the GOP can gain some Congressional seats?
Really?

 

[Facetious]

i agree with facal 100%
the US has a history of using cruel methods of torture on its prisoners.
what they did to this freedom fighter was a terrible terrible thing.

They capture people be it military or civillian, shackle and decapitate them on video, throw them off 3 story building, just enough to break most bones, murder babies in front of parents, gang rape women, chop off body parts, electrocute, gas to death , ect ect.

the wood chipper feet first !

And now this waterboarding has crossed the line.

:thumbsup:

 

[Hot Mega]

Ya got some evidence to back that up? Other than the usual overstated unfounded Republican bashing you seem to be leaning towards ?
Like...articles, statistics, anything?
Who said we needed a new Pearl Harbor? You? Got a name?

Are you going with the statement that Republican leaders and myself want to see a successful terrorist attack here in the US so Repubs can win elections? Wishing for dead American Moms, babies, Dads, anyone at all shredded and screaming so the GOP can gain some Congressional seats?
Really?

Project for a New American Century

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."

[Rebuilding America’s Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century - 2000]

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

Members: Chairman- William Kristol, Dick Cheney, Jeb Bush, Zalmay Khalilzad, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, among others. The members who were PNAC members left the group when Bush took the presidency.

(I thought you knew)

 

[Facetious]

For some reason GOPers still think they have the market cornered on patriotism and military service

And yes, a Democrat said a good crisis should never be wasted but it was republicans who said prior to 9/11 we needed a catalyzing event like a new Peal Harbor.

and what he (Rahmper Room Emanuel) meant was, it created an opportunity for the "D graders" to do some things that they otherwise wouldn't have had the opportunity to do had everything been hunky dory.

What I get from that is the D's want to keep things all fouled up so that they can capitalize on the opportunities made available through their own distorted policies.

After all, the poor, financially beaten down democratic party doesn't have anything to do with accruing wealth now do they ? ! :rofl:

ø Hunky Dory Government cannot stand !!

 

[Hot Mega]

and what he (Rahmper Room Emanuel) meant was, it created an opportunity for the "D graders" to do some things that they otherwise wouldn't have had the opportunity to do had everything been hunky dory.

What I get from that is the D's want to keep things all fouled up so that they can capitalize on the opportunities made available through their own distorted policies.

ø Hunky Dory Government cannot stand !!

Interesting fact pattern you posit but the only pattern I see here is you have no facts.

I've got to see how you make the case that 1st term Senator and POTUS candidate Obama pull all the strings to get our economy into this situation BEFORE he was ever elected POTUS.....I can't wait for you to explain that one to me...

I suspect your explanation will go the way of where the guy's explanation went who once tried to tell me how Clinton sent in his death squad to murder Randy Weaver and his family at Ruby Ridge.

He did have an nice lie going for awhile until I broke it to him that Clinton wasn't even in office when that incident took place...Incredulous he tried to explain that the incident happen in '92 and that's when Clinton took office..Of course I had to further break it to him that Clinton was a candidate elected in Nov. 92 (that was still nearly a year after Ruby Ridge) but like all POTUS, he wasn't inaugurated to office until the following Jan. ('93).

I'm not sure he ever recovered from that set of facts being handed to him.:dunno:

 

[Philbert]

And yes, a Democrat said a good crisis should never be wasted but it was republicans who said prior to 9/11 we needed a catalyzing event like a new Peal Harbor.

Project for a New American Century

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."

That's it?
Doesn't sound like wishing for a new Pearl Harbor to me...sounds like a rational statement of fact.
Where does it say we "need" a catalyzing event like a new Peal Harbor? (Except in your mind? Wishful thinking...?)

I thought you knew that?:nono:

 

[Hot Mega]

That's it?
Doesn't sound like wishing for a new Pearl Harbor to me...sounds like a rational statement of fact.
Where does it say we "need" a catalyzing event like a new Peal Harbor? (Except in your mind? Wishful thinking...?)

I thought you knew that?:nono:

You do know what the word "implied" means and how to apply it right?

Example: If I say I want an ice cream cone but without a dollar I won't be able to get one.

I don't have to say the word "need" or further say I "need a dollar" because it's implied that I need a dollar if I want to get an ice cream cone.:thumbsup:

 

[Philbert]

You do know what the word "implied" means and how to apply it right?

Example: If I say I want an ice cream cone but without a dollar I won't be able to get one.

I don't have to say the word "need" or further say I "need a dollar" because it's implied that I need a dollar if I want to get an ice cream cone.:thumbsup:

You really meant "extrapolate"...you do know what that means, right?
Now, lets move on to "equivalence"...as in "I want to drive a Mercedes, but the money I have won't cover one'.
You would have us believe that statement means "I wish my Mom would die and leave me all her money, so I can get a Mercedes".
One needs to extrapolate the most negative connotation to make the point you made, which isn't actually what was said.
There isn't an equivalence between the two examples, yours and mine.
But that's what you wish to extrapolate...not what a rational non-agenda driven person would interpret the statement to mean.
But I bow to your obviously superior command of logic and the English language...:bowdown:

 

[Hot Mega]

You really meant "extrapolate"...you do know what that means, right?
Now, lets move on to "equivalence"...as in "I want to drive a Mercedes, but the money I have won't cover one'.
You would have us believe that statement means "I wish my Mom would die and leave me all her money, so I can get a Mercedes".
One needs to extrapolate the most negative connotation to make the point you made, which isn't actually what was said.
There isn't an equivalence between the two examples, yours and mine.
But that's what you wish to extrapolate...not what a rational non-agenda driven person would interpret the statement to mean.
But I bow to your obviously superior command of logic and the English language...:bowdown:

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

?????????????????????????

Put the dictionary away...dictionaries are dangerous in the wrong hands...lol!!

 

[Facetious]

What roles did you serve during your alleged time in the Armed Services, mega ?
Were you one of those tag along whistle blowers, accounting for every single round of 5.66 ~ reporting back to a secondary employer the GPS coordinates of potential collateral loss of life ? :shocked:
(I thought that you'd like that one )
Gives a whole new meaning to watching one's back doesn't it ?

I don't believe that you spent a single day in the military, you just have false yet convincing answers for the commonly asked questions.

Geesh, first Mcrocket, then the "snail guy" and now you, bicker bicker bicker
. .undermine undermine undermine
nippin at the heels like a little yorkie