What gives us the right to eat other creatures?

[Baal]

OK

Now that thats over - back to the fuzzy bunny I picked up at the meat market and ate for dinner; I picked it out of its cage and then took it in the back room and viola!!!! ROFLMAO (but seriously - I've done it)

Here's the thing about all the meat protest, back in the caveman days we ate meat cuz it was good. Full of yummy blood and protein, good to keep the YANG up!!!! Made us aggressive, so we could go out and kill more, as well as fuck more and have more healthy meat eating kids!!!

I love my meat, matter of fact, I'm cooking some for lunch... but did I go out and kill it today, nope, have I done it in the past and still swallowed it - yup...so heres the deal folks, if your not willing to kill your own meat, you dont deserve to eat it!! Including me today... but hey, if that was a requirement, I'd be back at the market or out in the woods cuz there aint no way your taking my red meat away from me!!!!

 

[4G63]

Cows are easy targets. You could catch&kill a cow in a wheelchair with a saw.

 

[member2686]

LMAO Funny post of the week!!! The imagery...lol

Cows are easy targets. You could catch&kill a cow in a wheelchair with a saw.

 

[Baal]

Cows are easy targets. You could catch&kill a cow in a wheelchair with a saw.

Not true!!!!

If they're free range cattle, they actually run!!! LOL Try it sometime!

 

[4G63]

The land around Chicago is infested with cattle, they tire out after about 45 minutes, after that their at your will. I have only ever tipped them or spray-painted them (I'm not proud of that) but I'm sure after tiring them out or scaring them with fire-crackers I could catch&kill a cow in a wheelchair with a saw.

We should get a case of whiskey and try.

 

[Baal]

The land around Chicago is infested with cattle, they tire out after about 45 minutes, after that their at your will. I have only ever tipped them or spray-painted them (I'm not proud of that) but I'm sure after tiring them out or scaring them with fire-crackers I could catch&kill a cow in a wheelchair with a saw.

We should get a case of whiskey and try.

ROFLMAO - ITS A DEAL!!!!! :rofl: :rofl:


Only one problem though...

What happens if the cows fight back...:rofl: :rofl:

http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/1246/dank20cow6er.jpg

 

[4G63]

WHAT???

Now you're going to get real, genuine neg rep for me. Wait, if I want to neg rep you do I have to positively rep you instead? I don't get it, you really did tip cows? And spray paint them? Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I have to admit that your post upset me, but I hear my posts upset people, so I guess I deserve it. But chasing cows around till they tire and tipping them... they'd be petrified. Scarred for life (literally, I don't think spray paint comes out, does it?). Wheelchairs and saws? And all this time I thought there was so much to do in Chicago

Fox

Dude I grew up poor, extra poor. Everything in a major city is expensive, and rural Illinois is only an hour away by train. I'm not proud, but it was cheap thrills back in the day. But it proves my point, I never fucked with moose or horses, but cattle is dumb and deserves to be eaten.

 

[calpoon]

in the 19th century, before conducting experiments on animals it was routine to cut thier vocal chords. This meant that during the experiment the animal could not scream (which they refered to as "high-pitched vocalization".) By cutting the vocal chords the experimenters simultaniously denied reality-by pretending a silent animals feels no pain-and they affirmed it by implicity acknowledging that the animal's cries would have told them what they allready knew, that the creature was a sentient, feeling (and in this case, tortured) being.

A hundred years ago, thirty miles from my home nearly a hundred Indians were murdered in cold blood by white men. Most of them women and children. The people that did it were brought to a trail and found innocent by a jury. Today we say it's unfortunate that that happen, but that's in the past. We're different now- as we send men with guns down to the border. the means may have changed, but the idea is the same. We still believe that we own this land and anyone who is not like us has no right to be here.

Every year in this, "the most free nation in the world", 25% of women will have been raped. Another 20% will have had to fight off an attempt.

are you starting to see a pattern here? Ask a person what they did yesterday, today, what they will do tommorrow. chances are they can tell you and it would be the same thing. Then ask them if these things were satisfying to them, if they felt like they had accomplished something. chances are the answer is going to be no.

So why do we keep doing them?

We have to tell lies to ourselves so that we can sleep at night and live with the atrocities that we see and help commit, and are too scared to do anything about.

I guess death is just a small price to pay for our quality of life.

 

[Member2019]

Where do you get these rape statistics?

Every year in this, "the most free nation in the world", 25% of women will have been raped. Another 20% will have had to fight off an attempt.

Huh? I hope to God you don't think those are US statistics. In the US, approximately 1 in 5 women will have an attempted sexual assulted over their entire life! I have absolutely no idea where you're getting your statistics, but they are not remotely accurate.

I used to educate and teach defense techniques to sorority sisters when I was in college. I still stay pretty keen on the real statistics on rape -- date, violent and otherwise.

 

[Gordar]

Dude I grew up poor, extra poor. Everything in a major city is expensive, and rural Illinois is only an hour away by train. I'm not proud, but it was cheap thrills back in the day. But it proves my point, I never fucked with moose or horses, but cattle is dumb and deserves to be eaten.

First of all, I do agree that animals could (& should) be eaten.

There is a small problem with the above statement however. Cattle is no dumber than a horse (at least not proven), just (in many cases) not as agile & lacks stamina.

An example: Even though many people claim pigs are stupid, they're at least as smart as dogs (& for those who've had a pig as a pet, at least as loyal as well).

We eat pigs because they're 'dumb' and have a lot of meat on their body. If someone says he has eaten a dog, people react shocked and/or disgusted!

But as I've already said, pigs are as smart as dogs (or even smarter) and a dog can be bred to become fat as well, so why are there people that are shocked and disgusted when somebody tells them he/she has eaten a dog? (same goes for horses)

Like I said, I've got nothing against eating meat, but some people should stop being hypocritical & admit that if you eat one species, you should be able to eat all species (except your own, for medical reasons).

 

[Aegis]

But as I've already said, pigs are as smart as dogs (or even smarter) and a dog can be bred to become fat as well, so why are there people that are shocked and disgusted when somebody tells them he/she has eaten a dog? (same goes for horses)

Like I said, I've got nothing against eating meat, but some people should stop being hypocritical & admit that if you eat one species, you should be able to eat all species (except your own, for medical reasons).

I would never eat a dog or a cat for that matter. It's even less likely that I'd eat a cat. The reason for this is that I have always seen them as pets. I grew up having cats as pets and I've known many dogs too. I couldn't eat them, because I often stop thinking about a pet as an animal, but rather, perhaps in an odd way, as a member of the family.

I don't think that it's hypocritical for people to not want to eat an animal that they have a special bond to. I could probably eat most other animals, but not a cat, and to a lesser degree I wouldn't eat a dog either. It has nothing to do with the species in question as such, but rather what my relation to it is.

 

[calpoon]

Re: Where do you get these rape statistics?

I have absolutely no idea where you're getting your statistics, but they are not remotely accurate.

well I got these numbers from some freinds who work in social services/womens issues and from some books written by journalists for major bewspapers like the New York Times. they each cited about 25 books and websites, that I really don't feel like taking the time to type up here.

here's a couple sites that I found in about 2 minutes searching on yahoo, from a list of the top five searches.

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html

http://www.thehelpline.net/Abused.html

the other 3 sites confirmed all the same numbers, but they didn't phrase them in the "X out of X" ratio.

 

[calpoon]

anyway, If you want to PM about this subject you can. I don't really feel this is the palce to discuss it, and I only brought it up in the context of establishing a connection between acts prevalent in our society and culture that follow the mindset of objectification.

 

[Member2019]

Did you fail statistics 101?

well I got these numbers from some freinds who work in social services/womens issues and from some books written by journalists for major bewspapers like the New York Times. they each cited about 25 books and websites, that I really don't feel like taking the time to type up here.
here's a couple sites that I found in about 2 minutes searching on yahoo, from a list of the top five searches.
http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html
http://www.thehelpline.net/Abused.html

Dude, those statistics you stated are not remotely close to what those pages say. However, the numbers in those pages are close to what I stated!.

the other 3 sites confirmed all the same numbers, but they didn't phrase them in the "X out of X" ratio.

Ummm, you don't need to be an engineer who's had statistics with calculus to figure out that approximately 1 in 3 women over their lifetime is approximately 33.3%! And you don't need to be the same to figure out that if approximately 33.3% of women are raped in their lifetime, that if 25% of women were raped per year, that lifetime percentage would be a shitload higher!

The majority of women who are raped in their lifetime are in college, that is commonly known. I did not know it was now as high as 1 in 4, or 25%. But that is not for all women per year! But for woman during their college experience. The rate that women are raped over a 3-5 year college experience is not for all women per year! You are irresponsible to mis-quote such!

 

[Baal]

Chi squared = :wtf: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

my :2 cents:

 

[D-rock]

in the 19th century, before conducting experiments on animals it was routine to cut thier vocal chords. This meant that during the experiment the animal could not scream (which they refered to as "high-pitched vocalization".) By cutting the vocal chords the experimenters simultaniously denied reality-by pretending a silent animals feels no pain-and they affirmed it by implicity acknowledging that the animal's cries would have told them what they allready knew, that the creature was a sentient, feeling (and in this case, tortured) being.

A hundred years ago, thirty miles from my home nearly a hundred Indians were murdered in cold blood by white men. Most of them women and children. The people that did it were brought to a trail and found innocent by a jury. Today we say it's unfortunate that that happen, but that's in the past. We're different now- as we send men with guns down to the border. the means may have changed, but the idea is the same. We still believe that we own this land and anyone who is not like us has no right to be here.

Have you ever thought about the idea that they might not have been denying reality as much as they just thought the sound was annoying?

What makes you think the people don't have the right to the land? Your analogy is pretty weak, but if anything the people at the border are the ones similar to the people that killed the Indians. They are the ones that are coming over on somebody else's space because they think have a right to be there or just don't care. Of course comparing the two instances is pretty weak in both cases, I don't think it's too fair to compare murders to people that are defending themselves, unless by Indians your talking about people from the county of India and not native Americans and I just got mixed up somewhere and your not talking about what I think your talking about.

First of all, I do agree that animals could (& should) be eaten.

There is a small problem with the above statement however. Cattle is no dumber than a horse (at least not proven), just (in many cases) not as agile & lacks stamina.

An example: Even though many people claim pigs are stupid, they're at least as smart as dogs (& for those who've had a pig as a pet, at least as loyal as well).

We eat pigs because they're 'dumb' and have a lot of meat on their body. If someone says he has eaten a dog, people react shocked and/or disgusted!

But as I've already said, pigs are as smart as dogs (or even smarter) and a dog can be bred to become fat as well, so why are there people that are shocked and disgusted when somebody tells them he/she has eaten a dog? (same goes for horses)

Like I said, I've got nothing against eating meat, but some people should stop being hypocritical & admit that if you eat one species, you should be able to eat all species (except your own, for medical reasons).

Well I don't personally have a problem with people eating things like cats and dogs. Maybe if the opportunity presented itself I might try it one day. It wasn't that long ago that horses were commonly eaten also. They taste like beef but are a little sweeter and I knew people that ate some until animal lovers around here threw a fit over it. Some animals are raised as livestock because they share characteristics that make them well suited to it. Cows and pigs are basically herbivores which means you can let them graze, they heard well, and grow to large sizes, and they are for the most part calm. You’re not going to get a dog to weight 500 pounds. Others provide other things like milk, leather, and wool that a dog, cat, or other animals aren’t well suited to give you. Some were also good to use as beast of burden to pull heavy weights. Another reason is that a lot of people find carnivores worse tasting than herbivores. If they would have been able to provide all those things when humanity was getting established we would be eating and using them today like everything thing else we eat.


Also people should keep in mind that messing around with cows can be dangerous. If something goes wrong you can end up dead. They weight over ten times what you do. So if they stampede or you hurt one and it attacks back it isn't hard to be crushed. If you aren't careful they also can bash you with there heads. That isn't even taken into account some of the Bulls who can obviously get pretty ornery and mean.

 

[calpoon]

Have you ever thought about the idea that they might not have been denying reality as much as they just thought the sound was annoying?

well they justifed torturing animals by claiming that they were not capable of thoughts and feelings, and thus couldn't feel pain or articulate emotions. considering that they refused to acklowedge that the sound coming out of the animal is in response to them sticking knives into it's flesh, and instead just acted like it was just some meaningless noise, seems evidence enough that they were trying to cover it up.

look at the responses of people during the holocaust, from the guards, the citizens, and even the inmates in the camps. You'll find a disturbing number of them neglecting to mention that what happened was humans being murdered in mass. It's not because an entire nation, including the victims themselves, had no idea what was going on. It's because it's easier to deal with and to commit atrocities if you can rationalize that that isn't what is happening.

Go to a slaughterhouse and ask them about it. They'll tell you all about thier livestock, they'll tell you all about thier fancy machines, and they'll tell you about thier grade A beef products. For some reason they will not mention that they kill cows, which is the entire purpose of the place as everyone knows.

I tried to find some information to back up this claim and I could not find any at all. the only information I could find about slaughterhouses is info put out by people that are opposed to them. sounds like someone has a guilty conscience.

it reminds me of one of our many support our troops pages where soldiers will go on and about all the things that they do, how they help people, how they defend our country, and even though they believe that it is right (and I'm not saying that it isn't) they won't say that the military kills people.

 

[calpoon]

I'm not saying that any of these things are on the same level. don't get me wrong. I'm not comparing cows to concentration camp victims. What im saying is that contrary to how good we do it and would like to believe that it's our destiny, destruction is not something that people feel good about or are inclined to do. In order to make it something good, in order to think of life and death as things that are mechanical and something that we aren't just as much a part of, we have to deny them for what they are.

it's part of our instinct for survival, which leads to a fear of death and mortality, to a rejection of reality, which leads to objectifcation of animate things.

 

[freeryan]

I'm trying so hard to stop consuming animals products. I feel so bad when I do because I know the only reason why I do is because the taste. Which is bullshit and stupid. I CAN get what I need from growing food and I'm going to start.

 

[jk34]

our teeth r made to eat meat(and everything else too) so lets use them accordingly....its as simple as that