Obama: It's time for Libya's Gadhafi to go
- Thread starter Hot Mega
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Sure it is and almost nothing else . Time to get the alternative energies working !
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Right.
So it's worth saving the time to get the ship in position when it no longer works correctly because it's been smacked about by a whole load of anti-tank weapons and mortars, right?
Know what happened to USS Cole and Missouri? Bad things because the yanks didn't take precautions. Sometimes american carriers are protected by as little as four Browning .50 cals (go on, challenge me on VADS, I dare ya).
After all, what do you think the fighter bombers on that thing are gonna do against a national uprising? They just can't stop a whole country by themselves; they were designed to engage point military targets.
Using them against mobs of civilians revolting in the street in order to keep a dictator in power will only result in increasing hatred for the US.
Not only that, but if Al quaeda get that thing, it will be a massive propoganda boon and they'll gain MANY recruits and a lot of cash donations from it.
Damn right, what ya gonna do with a boat? Take on a whole country (eg massive civilian uprisings everywhere, which is what we're seeing)? You want things like B52 and maybe even chemical weapons for that.
Frankly the yanks would be smarter sitting back, then befriending whoever comes out on top. Yes it's immoral, but for the West, it's the obvious choice of action.
Neither the usa nor UK can play world police. They go running into Libya, that's ANOTHER country on our hands and we got enough on with Iraq and Afghanistan.
Not only that, but why should we? It will only strengthen fears that we're intent on taking over the whole Middle East. Result? The whole Middle East may well mount a pre-emptive strike against us. Even if we survive that pre-emptive strike, we'll then be on our knees before a merciless and powerfull china.
In fact, attacking Libya could (in theory) rally popular support behind Gaddaffi and he'd then set the united country against us.
^^I believe that.
It would be good to see those bastards go, I only hope the Saudi's get a nice moderate democracy to replace them.
Another prob. I see : The US. ain´t very strong ( financially ) itself .
And the US has to pay a LOT to China ..
And China doesn´t ( really ) like too much the changes that happen in this minute in the Arabian world ...
So if I would be a brutal Chinese leader .....??
And this : * Frankly the yanks would be smarter sitting back, then befriending whoever comes out on top. Yes it's immoral, but for the West, it's the obvious choice of action. *
is not such a bad idea ....!
And the US has to pay a LOT to China ..
And China doesn´t ( really ) like too much the changes that happen in this minute in the Arabian world ...
So if I would be a brutal Chinese leader .....??
And this : * Frankly the yanks would be smarter sitting back, then befriending whoever comes out on top. Yes it's immoral, but for the West, it's the obvious choice of action. *
is not such a bad idea ....!
You still didn't get it. Re-read what I wrote. But this is a quote from one of those links;
Forget 'Hot Mega' for a second and what I think. What do you think is meant by that quote? Then I'll tell you what I think.
Yeah..
'Relatively unarmed", inept...6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other.:dunno: The Libyan military machine (if you can call it that) was and is a freakin' joke. If you don't know this I suggest you read up on it...If you were among 100 people who read up on Libya's recent military history (to include the Reagan era) 99 would conclude like me they were a joke. Do they have some degree of armament? Of course they do as all that takes is money to obtain and the Gadfly has money. But what good is it when the those charged with engaging abandon their arms and the ones who remain are skilled barely above novice level? They have neither the training nor will in most cases to put up a serious defense at all.
They may be getting some additional training and support since GWB took them off the shit list but Libya has the distinction of getting their asses kicked by Chad in the '80s.
Libya "got their asses kicked" because of French aid to Chad which included airstrikes.
As for your assessment on Libya's military in the '80s it proves your ignorance.
In case you haven't figured it out, for every 1 strike aircraft you have at least 3-4 others flying support.
We lost two airmen to your so called "relatively unarmed" country.
You obviously know nothing about US military capability in the 1980s that is for certain.
Yes I gleaned my knowledge by reading and research, so sorry if that fact bothers you which it apparently does.
Your "extravagant" airstrike theory is biased garbage as is the opinion of "various sources". Many believed the strikes did not go far enough in scope.
SAS were even training Libyan forces recently.:dunno:
This is definitely a
moment for Obama. He shouldn't be risking a single American life over the affairs of Libya. It's their business who ends up leading their country and the Gadfly isn't doing much more than Obama or any of his predecessors would be doing against threat of overthrow.It doesn't make it any more right if it's Bush or Obama no matter how altruistic the end to the means is intended.
Obama was right when he criticized our military involvement in Iraq. But frankly, Bush had a more practical case against Iraq (albeit not much at all) than O has for meddling in Libya's affairs.
Epic fail O. This kind of shit is not why people voted for him IMO. At least not why I did.
Does your bullshit assembly line ever run less than full production?
If you fly aircraft over trip A you have just as much chance of getting shot down no matter what country it is. Libya or Liberia.
The more aircraft you put in the air over it the more likely the odds. Now you would have a point if Libya had the means to alert themselves of the pending attack then attempt to ward it off with their fighters. Not a single fighter got airborne and they were firing at our aircraft on the way out. What would you call that? Heavily defended? (Sure you would.)
But what do you make of the claims the mission was excessive?
And what are you still babbling about tactical support for?? We're beyond that as I told you that's not debatable. The question is the scale of the Op which is what determines the tactical support necessary.
Stop double speaking so much and read.
Speaking of which, you need to re-read up on what happened with Libya's war with Chad and why they lost. As a matter of fact, don't bother yourself as you'll just come back with more panned bullshit. Anyone else interested...read up on it and see who's full of shit.
Awwww getting a bit angry?
First of all the Libyans knew we were coming thanks to Western media and the Maltese government. So they(Libyans) were prepared.
Libyan radar, SAM's and AAA painted the strike force as they entered Libyan airspace.
Your "relatively unarmed" Libyans had SA-2, SA-3, SA6, SA-8, and French Crotale missiles. Radar guided and visually guided AAA. Mig-25s and Mig-23's for interception.
The size of the strike force was adequate for the mission so having less aircraft would put our pilots in even more jeopardy. I figured you would know that considering the size of Libya and the distance between each target. But apparently you don't.
Karma 52 the F-111 that was shot down was hit before it's attack, by Libyan AAA, caught fire and crashed.
If anyone is spewing bs, it's you Mega. You want to to keep this up please go ahead it's entertaining.:clap:
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vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Absolutely right: Alternative energy means they can't make you kowtow for oil and the environment gets a break. Since the Middle East now has the tech to make a profit from things OTHER than oil, everyone's a winner! :thumbsup:
Damned right: Obama stands off he says to the people: "I won't waste your kids in someone elses mess"This is definitely a
It doesn't make it any more right if it's Bush or Obama no matter how altruistic the end to the means is intended.
Obama was right when he criticized our military involvement in Iraq. But frankly, Bush had a more practical case against Iraq (albeit not much at all) than O has for meddling in Libya's affairs.
Epic fail O. This kind of shit is not why people voted for him IMO. At least not why I did.
And he says to the Middle East: "I aint gonna push you around"
He makes both happy.
But was he smart enough to do that? No.
Does america benefit? No.
Does business benefit? Probably. When will governments start working for their countries?
I'm confused, my impression was that the French spotted the F111s on radar taking off from Lakenheath en route to Libya, alerted the Libyans, Gaddafi wasn't in his tent when they hit it and in a revenge strike they turned the French embassy into bloody brick dust on the way back home.
Are we talking of a different airstrike now? Or have I just forgotten my stuff? :dunno:
Why would I be??
More double speak.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/el_dorado_canyon.htm
It is.
You're not the one confused VV....No, you haven't forgotten your stuff and you're talking about the exact same strike in which we leveled the French Embassy too. Just a coincidence I suppose and no correlation to them not allowing us to use their airspace.
It's about time that we as a nation needs to mind it's fucking business. Too many times we interfere in something that has nothing to do with us. And this is one of those times. It's not our job to be "the police" of the world. There are more important problems domestically that need to dealt with instead of over stretching our bounds. How about the unemployment rate which is completely inaccurate btw causenit doesnt take into account all those that have fallen off the radar. Or how about the jobs that keep getting shipped overseas.
You all are being distracted from the the right wing power grab being pulled off under your very noses. What is going on in the middle east is important but we Americans are slowly but surely being Screwed!!!! See the big picture fools. Whats next for us all??? Mandatory Church??? Federal set wage scales???? How long till the camps open???? who will be first??? Get your heads out of the ass of the world and start paying attention to home for a change???
Just like the lies about Saddam throwing babies out of incubators and other lies, wars always start over lies. Vietnam was started on the Gulf Of Tonkin incident which is now an admitted lie.
Well here is another one. Gadhafi never launched air strikes on citizens as the mainstream media had said. Another lie.
They just want to invade them so make up anything.
Well here is another one. Gadhafi never launched air strikes on citizens as the mainstream media had said. Another lie.
They just want to invade them so make up anything.
Why would I be??
More double speak.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/el_dorado_canyon.htm
It is.
You're not the one confused VV....No, you haven't forgotten your stuff and you're talking about the exact same strike in which we leveled the French Embassy too. Just a coincidence I suppose and no correlation to them not allowing us to use their airspace.
Globalsecurity has it wrong. Karma 52 was hit en route to it's target. My sources are the actual USAF after action report.
In fact Puffy 11 on the F-111 strike force picked up radar and SAM indications enroute. All missiles I listed could be fired visually without radar( most radar neutralized by our HARM missiles launched from our E-6 and A-7 aircraft).
The "technicians" are advisors and not necessarily physically manning the equipment. Nice try but two strikes Mega.
I never claimed the Libyan Mig-25s or Mig-23's were airborne. Even if they had managed they would've been detected by the E-2 Hawkeyes and shot down by the Navy F-14s.
I do like the way that even GS calls Libya's air defense "formidable". Quite a contrast to your claim it was a "relatively unarmed country".
So three strikes Mega.
Let's keep it going.:clap:
Vodka:
The Maltese gov't passed radar advice to the Libyans coming from Italy of the strike force presence. UK TV showed LGB's being loaded on F-111s at Lakenheath. It didn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together to figure that a strike on Libya was imminent.
The French embassy was hit by mistake the bombs dropped by one of the Jewel cell F-111s went long because the aimpoint was obscured by smoke and debris.
It was more than some "personal" attack on Daffy, we hit terrorist training facilities and military sites as well.
The object was to make him pay for all his terrorist activities.
The Maltese gov't passed radar advice to the Libyans coming from Italy of the strike force presence. UK TV showed LGB's being loaded on F-111s at Lakenheath. It didn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together to figure that a strike on Libya was imminent.
The French embassy was hit by mistake the bombs dropped by one of the Jewel cell F-111s went long because the aimpoint was obscured by smoke and debris.
It was more than some "personal" attack on Daffy, we hit terrorist training facilities and military sites as well.
The object was to make him pay for all his terrorist activities.
The demise of Pat Tillman was accounted for in an AAR too.
Strike 1
It wasn't a try as they could be either. Nice Try-dent.
Strike 2
Watch this. No, you didn't claim they launched fighters but you claimed they were forewarned. Hence, tactical forewarning should have meant some array of tactical defense by this 'formidable' foe...right? Which is it? Stay tuned to the end of this post.
'relatively unarmed' - feeble and inept....again a practical difference of semantics as it takes warm bodies willing and able to man the most sophisticated of systems. No matter how sophisticated, these things can't operate without skilled, willed individuals.
Strike 3 Tridentfecta.
Indeed...let's.:clap:
emceeemcee
Banned
SAS were even training Libyan forces recently.:dunno:
This is definitely a
It doesn't make it any more right if it's Bush or Obama no matter how altruistic the end to the means is intended.
Obama was right when he criticized our military involvement in Iraq. But frankly, Bush had a more practical case against Iraq (albeit not much at all) than O has for meddling in Libya's affairs.
Epic fail O. This kind of shit is not why people voted for him IMO. At least not why I did.
He's the emperor in charge of the empire. He's got no choice.
After action reports are made from pilot debriefings......i.e. from the pilot's own accounts.
Yes they were warned and painted US aircraft with radar (which in itself is considered an offensive action by the enemy)
The fired upon US aircraft on their ingress, while over target and egress. You claim and someone at GS claim falsely it was only on egress.
The Libyans were not dumb enough to try and get an aircraft airborne.........the F-14s on hand would've nailed them within minutes.
"Relatively unarmed" now means feeble and inept? Yeah right tell that to the pilots who faced AAA and SAM's
So some guys ran. Let's see explosions, AAA going off, roar of aircraft overhead, people shouting screaming, yeop no surprise there.
Your turn.:clap:
