All these goalies except Osgood where or are better than Theodore , at least they where better in the playoffs. If you look at Theo's history in the playoffs , you will see that it's not very good , so I doubt he can have a good enough performance to take the caps all the way to the big prize. P.S. Barrasso was at least great for two playoffs run in a row.
NHL '09/'10 Season Thread
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All these goalies except Osgood where or are better than Theodore , at least they where better in the playoffs. If you look at Theo's history in the playoffs , you will see that it's not very good , so I doubt he can have a good enough performance to take the caps all the way to the big prize. P.S. Barrasso was at least great for two playoffs run in a row.
Barrasso was in nets when everyone and their mom was puting up monster numbers. Remember that 92-93 year we talked about earlier Mogillni and Selanne put up 70+ goals, Bure, Lemieux and Robataile had over 60 goals, and Yzerman and Turgeon had 58 goals. Something was in the water that year:
http://www.sportscity.com/nhl/nhl-single-season-goal-leaders-92/
I remember Robataille's rookie card was mad hot around that time. I think I had it. I know I had Lemieux's rookie card but it was the Topps, not the O-Pee-Chee and it wasn't in mint condition. Every kid in the neighborhood wanted Lemieux's O-Pee-Chee rookie card! You had to kill to get that thing.
Tom Barrasso played in different era. Looking at his stats doesn't tell the whole story. Grant Fuhr was one of the best goaltenders in the NHL back then and his numbers are quite comparable to Barrasso's. There was a lot more scoring back then, so Barrasso's numbers look poor in comparison to what you might be used to in today's game. The point is, however, that goaltenders weren't quite so important back then because it was a much more open playing style and there was a lot more scoring which was why the Pens won those Cups (although Barrasso played pretty well in those playoff runs as well).
All of those goaltenders are excellent, not average. You're thinking about them in the here and now, not in the context of how good they were then they won their Cups. When they won their Cups they were all among the best goaltenders in the world. Osgood is a Hall-of-Famer for sure (10th all-time in wins and a career 2.47 GAA). Khabibulin has over 300 career wins. Giguere has pretty good career numbers as well and was one of the best goaltenders in the league the two years he took the Ducks to the Cup Finals (and other years besides). And Marty Turco, for your information, has never won a Stanley Cup.
The main point is that over the past 15 years or so no team has gone deep into the playoffs without stellar goaltending. Fleury and Osgood were awesome the last two seasons, Giguere for the Ducks, Ward and Roloson for Carolina and Edmonton, respectively, Khabibulin for Tampa Bay, etc. If Washington, or anybody else, wants to win the Cup they'll need it too.
Marty Turco has not won the Stanley Cup. Ed Belfour was goalie for Dallas when they won it.
My mistake on Turco, I just quickly skimmed over past cup winners and saw Dallas. I still wouldn't call any of those goalies excellent. Brodeur, Roy, Fleury, Hasek are excellent goalies. Osgood rotates with the backup during the regular season and never did anything in NYI or St Louis. Giguere and Bulin are too inconsistent to be considered excellent. I think the team in front of the goalie is just as, if not more important than the goalie. Detroit is the perfect example. Washington can overcome mediocre goaltending to go all the way.
PlasmaTwa2
The Second-Hottest Man in my Mother's Basement
What a great night. Philly, Phoenix and Vancouver all won.
If great goaltending is required to win the cup, then Phoenix and Vancouver could both go far; probably the two best goalies in the West. Philly, not so much...
If great goaltending is required to win the cup, then Phoenix and Vancouver could both go far; probably the two best goalies in the West. Philly, not so much...
If only the Blackhawks had a decent goalie...
PlasmaTwa2
The Second-Hottest Man in my Mother's Basement
Well, they don't, so apparently that means they won't win the Cup no matter how good they play. Tough luck...
icerfan
Nikkala made me do it!
I'm thinking Ovechkin should've only gotten four minutes. :dunno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MozYKCapvWs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MozYKCapvWs
no. a 5 minute major was the right call. and, if a player is injured in a boarding situation like that, it's a game misconduct. that was as it should have been
I'm probably the biggest advocate on the board as far as wanting to see seriously bone crushing checks (when I played, my goal was to hurt the other person, period.), but I didn't like that hit. Yeah, if you're in the neutral zone and a guy is going along with his head down, by all means, put him in the ground Stephens-on-Lindros style, but do it to their face. Although I didn't see that hit as a cheap shot, I just don't like it for some reason.
how? as i said, the rule states if a player is hurt on a boarding call (as Campbell was since he didn't return) it's a game misconduct.
Ya I know the rules, it doesn't mean they are right.
I agree. That was egregious. I hope there are some big assed fines too.
I dunno. I'm not for over penalizing anyone, but that was a pretty filthy job, right there. That's how people get pretty badly hurt.
Plus, and while I don't want to be an ass, the rules about boarding are pretty clear and explicit. He broke them.
It's sort of what our football friends would call a "clip" (at least from the way I saw it earlier). It does appear he clipped'm.
Chris Osgood in the 2008 postseason: 14-4, 1.55 GAA, .930 Sv%, 3 SO.
Chris Osgood in the 1998 postseason: 16-6, 2.12 GAA, .918 Sv%, 2 SO.
Osgood was with the Islanders when the Red Wings won in 2002 and he was the backup to Mike Vernon when they won in 1997.
Dominik Hasek in the 2002 postseason: 16-7, 1.86 GAA, .920 Sv%, 6 SO.
Mike Vernon in the 1997 postseason: 16-4, 1.76 GAA, .927 Sv%, 1 SO.
So, you see, Detroit is not at all an example of the team in front being more important than the goaltending. Quite the opposite.
Chris Osgood's career numbers, take a gander: http://redwings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8458568
Jean-Sebastien Giguere in the 2007 postseason: 13-4, 1.97 GAA, .922 Sv%, 1 SO.
Jean-Sebastien Giguere in the 2003 postseason: 15-6, 1.62 GAA, .945 Sv%, 5 SO.
Nikolai Khabibulin in the 2004 postseason: 16-7, 1.71 GAA, .933 Sv%, 5 SO.
It's pretty obvious, like I said before, that you're looking at these goaltenders in terms of the here and now. I've been watching hockey forever, not just the last few years, so I know how good these goaltenders really are and have been in the past. Giguere was unbelievable the years that he took the Ducks to the Cup Finals, Khabibulin was unbelievable the year he took the Lightning to the Cup.
Giguere's career stats: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8462044#&navid=nhl-keymatch
Khabibulin's career stats: http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8459140#&navid=nhl-keymatch
You couldn't be more wrong when you say that the team in front of the goaltender is just as important in the postseason, and to say that it's more important shows how little you know of playoff hockey. And there's no way that any team can overcome mediocre goaltending in the postseason, first round exit is more likely. Anyone who really knows hockey would have to agree and the proof is there; every year the goaltending matters most in the postseason. This year will be no different. If the Caps do win, I guarantee that either Varlamov or Theodore will have stood on their heads in order for them to do so.
That's what I'm saying. Mediocre goalies can get hot in the playoffs and go all the way. You don't have to have an elite goalie to win the cup. I'm not saying mediocre goaltending will win the cup. You can't just write a team off because their goalies are unproven or have a bad track record.