NFL '11 Season Thread
- Thread starter Straight Shooter
- Start date
You make me laugh sometimes, Mega. I have plenty to say, and I've said it. You're just too busy sticking up for your Michigan pals that you can't see anything else. I have no doubt in my mind you'd be telling a different story had Brady went to a different school. :1orglaugh
This is probably bullshit too, because it goes against what you're trying to say, but NFL.com had Peyton the 8th greatest player ever. I guess all those experts are a bunch of clueless fantasy stat geeks too, eh??
I'm done with this. You can pretend I'm pussing out like you did with A-Ry if you want, but like A-Ry, I've realized there's no debating with a homer, just like there's no debating with a fantasy stat geek....or a panel of NFL experts....or the record books. Peyton > Brady
You can win titles with a shitty QB (Dilfer) but doing that with a monkey of a goalie (or a choking goalie, i.e. Luongo, for one example) is another thing entirely.
I didn't want this to get lost behind the Manning/Brady debate. Don't forget your picks, y'all.
BCT
Pucker Up Butter Cup.
I went 11-5 week 2, ugh should have done better!
Jacksonville @ Carolina
Houston @ New Orleans
San Francisco @ Cincinnati
Miami @ Cleveland
New England @ Buffalo
New York Giants @ Philadelphia
Denver @ Tennessee
Detroit @ Minnesota
New York Jets @ Oakland
Kansas City @ San Diego
Baltimore @ St Louis
Atlanta @ Tampa Bay
Green Bay @ Chicago
Arizona @ Seattle
Pittsburgh @ Indianapolis
Washington @ Dallas
Jacksonville @ Carolina
Houston @ New Orleans
San Francisco @ Cincinnati
Miami @ Cleveland
New England @ Buffalo
New York Giants @ Philadelphia
Denver @ Tennessee
Detroit @ Minnesota
New York Jets @ Oakland
Kansas City @ San Diego
Baltimore @ St Louis
Atlanta @ Tampa Bay
Green Bay @ Chicago
Arizona @ Seattle
Pittsburgh @ Indianapolis
Washington @ Dallas
How many tackles has Brady made? What is your point? You have 30+ players that get regular playing time on a football team. No matter how good a player is at his position, he cannot win a game without his teammates doing their jobs. Would Brady have those rings if he played for the Lions? No. The Pats were a contender when Bledsoe got hurt. Brady came in with a good team around him. The Pats won those Super Bowls. Brady was a part of those teams, but he didn't win a single game by himself.
The same thing goes for Manning. He would not have his ring without the Colts having a very good team around him. The Ravens won a Super Bowl with a journeyman at QB. Jim McMahon was a little better than average at best and he has a ring. Bradshaw didn't have great numbers but he was on a great team. The same thing with Aikman. The Redskins won Super Bowls with three different QB's. It's the team not the QB.
Ace Bandage
The one and only.
I never take anyone seriously when the only measuring stick they use for judging a player is championships. It just makes that person look like a fucking idiot. Dan Marino and Barrry Sanders are two of the best of all-time at their respective positions and never won a championship. Should we discount their individual performances because they didn't lead their teams to titles? Are Brad Johnson and Antowain Smith better players than those two because they have rings? No, that's asinine. Personal career statistics and accomplishments have to count for something. And nobody is in Peyton's league in that regard.
Peyton has 4 MVP titles and is second only to Marino and Favre in career statistics, both of whom played for much longer than he did. He's a better QB. He hasn't won more Super Bowls, you're right. That takes a total team effort. But we've seen what happens to Indy when you take Peyton away. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but the consensus here seems to be that Manning is a better QB. Look at the previous page without your maize and blue glasses on. It's all right in front of you.
Peyton has 4 MVP titles and is second only to Marino and Favre in career statistics, both of whom played for much longer than he did. He's a better QB. He hasn't won more Super Bowls, you're right. That takes a total team effort. But we've seen what happens to Indy when you take Peyton away. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but the consensus here seems to be that Manning is a better QB. Look at the previous page without your maize and blue glasses on. It's all right in front of you.
Selena_Night_87
Closed Account
Its impossible to argue for or against when it comes to Brady-Manning....Brady has the qb rating margin 95.8 to 94.9 for manning. Brady had 2 of the best 3 seasons ever, Manning had the other. Manning has 4 MVP awards, Brady has 2. Brady has 3 rings and manning has 1. I am a Patriots fan to the bone but lets be honest you couldn't argue if you had either one.
P.S. I believe the game your talking about was the Pats second S.B. win against the Panthers, not the St. Louis Rams...When the ball was kicked out of bounds and we got it at the 40 yard line.
P.S. I believe the game your talking about was the Pats second S.B. win against the Panthers, not the St. Louis Rams...When the ball was kicked out of bounds and we got it at the 40 yard line.
Final word on this from me....(generally)
1. People judge QBs (on among other things) by how many titles they win. That's not a Hot Mega standard that's just the way it is. In that sense, it's a good thing Manning finally did overcome chocking to get one.
2. You can be a great QB and never have a ring IMO and you can be a shitty QB but still have one as we've seen. I think the argument goes that among the great QBs they are separated by rings. No rings doesn't nullify your statistical accomplishments but winning a Super Bowl tends to elevate your standing.
3. If you think the shit isn't personal then you are seriously one who doesn't follow the reality much. There are PLENTY of stories where players will yank each others chains over rings and or lack of them. If you don't know this then you just don't want to know this. Is it the sole reason for Manning's existence, to outdo Brady..probably not. But you'd be a fool to think he'd like the opportunity to at least match his contemporary rival in rings. (Some of you really don't think Shaq was hanging around because he still felt he had something more to offer BB rather than trying to outdo Kobe in rings do you??
)
It DEFINITELY plays a role.
4. Manning undoubtedly is held in high regard for his accumulation of stats and finally a SB win. Hell, I almost felt the way New England lost an 18 point lead and the Colts going on to play then beat the Bears that it was a honorary Super Bowl win for Manning and Dungy. But nonetheless Manning got off the snide.:dunno:
5. Do I personally favor Brady of the two? Of course but aside from him being a UM alum he just fucking deserves it. The guy has been slighted all his career but all he does is just fucking beat the odds and win. That is in stark contrast to Manning's career. Manning has had nothing but everything it takes for a QB to lead his team to SBs...yet he's barely produced when it mattered.
Brady on the other hand won his 1st SB off a back up role and has had his fucking coach/GM turning the team over from under him every year but they still win with Brady.
The Pats were successful without Brady versus the Colts without Manning? I suppose that's a point but the Colts called on a man who was trying his level best to retire who had previous never called a snap in a Colts uniform (What were you all expecting from this???) While the Patriots inserted a QB who had beaten out other 2nd string contenders and had been in their system for 3 years already to lead a team most assumed would vie for championship anyway.
6. I just don't understand why so many of you are quick to dismiss Manning's choking throughout his career. He must have won you guys allot of fantasy games or something.:dunno:
1. People judge QBs (on among other things) by how many titles they win. That's not a Hot Mega standard that's just the way it is. In that sense, it's a good thing Manning finally did overcome chocking to get one.
2. You can be a great QB and never have a ring IMO and you can be a shitty QB but still have one as we've seen. I think the argument goes that among the great QBs they are separated by rings. No rings doesn't nullify your statistical accomplishments but winning a Super Bowl tends to elevate your standing.
3. If you think the shit isn't personal then you are seriously one who doesn't follow the reality much. There are PLENTY of stories where players will yank each others chains over rings and or lack of them. If you don't know this then you just don't want to know this. Is it the sole reason for Manning's existence, to outdo Brady..probably not. But you'd be a fool to think he'd like the opportunity to at least match his contemporary rival in rings. (Some of you really don't think Shaq was hanging around because he still felt he had something more to offer BB rather than trying to outdo Kobe in rings do you??
)It DEFINITELY plays a role.
4. Manning undoubtedly is held in high regard for his accumulation of stats and finally a SB win. Hell, I almost felt the way New England lost an 18 point lead and the Colts going on to play then beat the Bears that it was a honorary Super Bowl win for Manning and Dungy. But nonetheless Manning got off the snide.:dunno:
5. Do I personally favor Brady of the two? Of course but aside from him being a UM alum he just fucking deserves it. The guy has been slighted all his career but all he does is just fucking beat the odds and win. That is in stark contrast to Manning's career. Manning has had nothing but everything it takes for a QB to lead his team to SBs...yet he's barely produced when it mattered.
Brady on the other hand won his 1st SB off a back up role and has had his fucking coach/GM turning the team over from under him every year but they still win with Brady.
The Pats were successful without Brady versus the Colts without Manning? I suppose that's a point but the Colts called on a man who was trying his level best to retire who had previous never called a snap in a Colts uniform (What were you all expecting from this???
) While the Patriots inserted a QB who had beaten out other 2nd string contenders and had been in their system for 3 years already to lead a team most assumed would vie for championship anyway.6. I just don't understand why so many of you are quick to dismiss Manning's choking throughout his career. He must have won you guys allot of fantasy games or something.:dunno:
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SB MVPs Brady 2 Manning 1.:2 cents:
Ace Bandage
The one and only.
^^ What the fuck does fantasy have to do with anything? All you're trying to do is minimize Peyton's statistical accomplishments because Tom Terrific doesn't measure up. Fact.
And to suggest that Tom has been slighted his whole life is fucking laughable. Give me a break. He attended Micihgan - the winnigest collegiate football program in the NCAA. He was drafted in the 6th round and played backup to a QB in Bledsoe who had been the face of the franchise since taking them to the Super Bowl in 1996. Tom got his chance when Drew went down and led a very good team to the playoffs and a Super Bowl win. He's been the starter ever since and he's married to one of the hottest females in the history of man.
Yeah, he's definitely been slighted.
Side note: Over the last decade, which QB led their teams to more wins? Yep, #18. Just throwing that out there. And I know it eats you up that a majority of the people here think Manning > Brady. Your bitterness is showing. That's what makes this so entertaining.
And to suggest that Tom has been slighted his whole life is fucking laughable. Give me a break. He attended Micihgan - the winnigest collegiate football program in the NCAA. He was drafted in the 6th round and played backup to a QB in Bledsoe who had been the face of the franchise since taking them to the Super Bowl in 1996. Tom got his chance when Drew went down and led a very good team to the playoffs and a Super Bowl win. He's been the starter ever since and he's married to one of the hottest females in the history of man.
Yeah, he's definitely been slighted.
Side note: Over the last decade, which QB led their teams to more wins? Yep, #18. Just throwing that out there. And I know it eats you up that a majority of the people here think Manning > Brady. Your bitterness is showing. That's what makes this so entertaining.
Selena_Night_87
Closed Account
You disagree I see.:dunno:
Getting what's owed to him. He's earned every second of it.:yesyes:
He has.
So Peyton should have more championship rings then...OOOOPS, not how it works does it.
Manning was threatening to be what people are accusing Lebron of becoming...a quarter shy of a dollar type player.:2 cents:
Final word on this from me....(generally)
1. People judge QBs (on among other things) by how many titles they win. That's not a Hot Mega standard that's just the way it is. In that sense, it's a good thing Manning finally did overcome chocking to get one.
2. You can be a great QB and never have a ring IMO and you can be a shitty QB but still have one as we've seen. I think the argument goes that among the great QBs they are separated by rings. No rings doesn't nullify your statistical accomplishments but winning a Super Bowl tends to elevate your standing.
3. If you think the shit isn't personal then you are seriously one who doesn't follow the reality much. There are PLENTY of stories where players will yank each others chains over rings and or lack of them. If you don't know this then you just don't want to know this. Is it the sole reason for Manning's existence, to outdo Brady..probably not. But you'd be a fool to think he'd like the opportunity to at least match his contemporary rival in rings. (Some of you really don't think Shaq was hanging around because he still felt he had something more to offer BB rather than trying to outdo Kobe in rings do you??
It DEFINITELY plays a role.
4. Manning undoubtedly is held in high regard for his accumulation of stats and finally a SB win. Hell, I almost felt the way New England lost an 18 point lead and the Colts going on to play then beat the Bears that it was a honorary Super Bowl win for Manning and Dungy. But nonetheless Manning got off the snide.:dunno:
5. Do I personally favor Brady of the two? Of course but aside from him being a UM alum he just fucking deserves it. The guy has been slighted all his career but all he does is just fucking beat the odds and win. That is in stark contrast to Manning's career. Manning has had nothing but everything it takes for a QB to lead his team to SBs...yet he's barely produced when it mattered.
Brady on the other hand won his 1st SB off a back up role and has had his fucking coach/GM turning the team over from under him every year but they still win with Brady.
The Pats were successful without Brady versus the Colts without Manning? I suppose that's a point but the Colts called on a man who was trying his level best to retire who had previous never called a snap in a Colts uniform (What were you all expecting from this???
6. I just don't understand why so many of you are quick to dismiss Manning's choking throughout his career. He must have won you guys allot of fantasy games or something.:dunno:
I can't speak for others but my feeling on the subject is simply that Tom Brady should not be compared to Joe Montana, and in all likelyhood is more comprable to Terry Bradshaw than Montana. Even though I rank Manning and Brady ahead of Rothlisberger, Big Ben is actually more Montanaesque than those two. And in the last few seasons, Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman have had more Montana-like moments than Tom Brady. What many Brady defenders try desperately to ignore is the fact that over the past few years, Tom Brady has become more Peyton Manningish than even Peyton Manning. If we went back to 2007 and I told you that in the upcoming season, a QB is going to break the single season TD record with 50, lead his team to the highest scoring offense in history, go 16-0 and all the way to the Super Bowl and then lose, you would have sworn it would have been Peyton. If I told you last year a QB will lead his team to the best record in the NFL and set the record for most completions without an interception, and then in his first playoff game, BOOM, interception right out the gate followed by a loss, you would have sworn that would be Manning. In all actuality it's been Brady who has been putting up mind boggling numbers and then falling flat on his face in the playoffs as of late, not Peyton. You can't accuse people of being quick to dismiss Manning's choking and at the same time dismiss Brady's choking, because we're closing in on close to a decade since the last time that guy won a ring.
p.s. - Do you think Matt Cassell could step into Indy's offense right now and lead them to a 10 win season as he was able to do with New England when Brady went down? Because I don't.
BCT
Pucker Up Butter Cup.
I agree that Sanders is the best RB of all-time, I've always said that, Sanders used to get 1,500 to 2,000 rushing yards per year behind a horrible Lions O-line, had he played 3-4 more years like he easily could have he would have put the all-time rushing record out of reach,forever, enough said!
Manningish...(at least someone's coping to the choking).
I would be much more critical of Brady if he had the consistency of players around him that Manning has enjoyed. That said, Brady still led the Pats to the go ahead TD against the Giants who needed a couple of highly improbable things to happen in order to deny the Pats a win in that game. Quick...who is Brady's RB and WRs for any given year out of the past decade...:eek::1orglaugh
In spite of all that the guy has still put up tremendous numbers and gotten his team to a high level.
Some of you are still dismissive of what it takes to get to a SB and have a chance to win it...Let alone be the favorite.
But the Manningish makes my point.:dunno:
Brady has come down to being just very good as of late. We'll see what will happen. Of course, now the Pats have had key defenders banished from the team..
Uh..but Cassell didn't just step in as an old, half-way retired QB long in the tooth like Collins is trying to do. Cassell was in the Pat's system and on their roster going into his 4th season. What the fuck would they be paying the guy for if he couldn't step up in Brady's stead to at least be a serviceable replacement??
C'mon Base...you have more sense than the rest of these Manning shills.
Brady....great FIRST ballot HOF QB, more rings, more SB MVPs...more SB appearances, 16-0, 50 TDs, 99 yard TD:dunno: Oh..and he's Got Gisele...:tongue:
Manningish...(at least someone's coping to the choking).
I would be much more critical of Brady if he had the consistency of players around him that Manning has enjoyed. That said, Brady still led the Pats to the go ahead TD against the Giants who needed a couple of highly improbable things to happen in order to deny the Pats a win in that game. Quick...who is Brady's RB and WRs for any given year out of the past decade...:eek::1orglaugh
In spite of all that the guy has still put up tremendous numbers and gotten his team to a high level.
Some of you are still dismissive of what it takes to get to a SB and have a chance to win it...Let alone be the favorite.
But the Manningish makes my point.:dunno:
Brady has come down to being just very good as of late. We'll see what will happen. Of course, now the Pats have had key defenders banished from the team..
Uh..but Cassell didn't just step in as an old, half-way retired QB long in the tooth like Collins is trying to do. Cassell was in the Pat's system and on their roster going into his 4th season. What the fuck would they be paying the guy for if he couldn't step up in Brady's stead to at least be a serviceable replacement??
C'mon Base...you have more sense than the rest of these Manning shills.
Brady....great QB, more rings, more SB MVPs...more SB appearances, 16-0, 50 TDs, 99 yard TD:dunno: Oh..and he's Got Gisele...:tongue:
In case you haven't noticed, you won't find a single quote of me saying I rate Manning ahead of Brady, nor will you see me saying I rate Brady ahead of Manning. They will forever be intertwined the same as Magic and Bird will be. Yet I can't understand for some reason why you keep mentioning the caliber of players around Manning but fail to mention the ORGANIZATION around Brady. The number of pro bowlers the Cowboys have had on their teams the last few years should let you know how well that translates to Lombardi Trophys.
And my question still remains the same. Let's say for argument's sake Cassell has spent his entire career on the bench under Manning. Does he step in and lead this team now to 10 wins?Wasn't that leading to be the basis of my point in all of this to begin with? Now do you think Magic and Bird weren't in fierce competition with each other as rivals for championships???????????
With all due respect to the 'ORGAN..." around Brady...that organization doesn't make a single play on the field. Players like Asante Samuel and Deion Branch do (for example). I don't care how many good players you try to plug and play with...it's still not equivalent nor as good as having a Reggie Wayne, Clarke, Harrison and Edge' James all those years together.:dunno: I don't care how you spin it.
^^Another example of consistency. Every hear of 'The Triplets'?:eek:The number of pro bowlers the Cowboys have had on their teams the last few years should let you know how well that translates to Lombardi Trophys.
No. Cassell probably leads them to 14 wins.:2 cents:
Selena_Night_87
Closed Account
In case you haven't noticed, you won't find a single quote of me saying I rate Manning ahead of Brady, nor will you see me saying I rate Brady ahead of Manning. They will forever be intertwined the same as Magic and Bird will be. Yet I can't understand for some reason why you keep mentioning the caliber of players around Manning but fail to mention the ORGANIZATION around Brady. The number of pro bowlers the Cowboys have had on their teams the last few years should let you know how well that translates to Lombardi Trophys.
He would have if the year was 2008
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