In almost any sport nothing brings in more money and gets a team more popular than winning a lot. If you maximize that everything else follows.
NFL '11 Season Thread
- Thread starter Straight Shooter
- Start date
In almost any sport nothing brings in more money and gets a team more popular than winning a lot. If you maximize that everything else follows.
The unfair thing with Tim Tebow is that he hasnt been given a fair chance in the NFL. everyone already said hes a failure before he was even drafted. At least with JaMarcus Russel and Ryan Leaf we saw they couldnt play. Tebow got 3 games last season and while the stats werent breath taking, he did do something Kyle Orton didnt, he gave his team a chance to win the 2 games they lost. I dont think its fair to say he cant play when 99% of us havent even given him a shot, we base it all on his practice performance which is never an indicator of who can play and who cant, how many players were great in practice and not so good in game? the two things are very different. In going back to Steve Young, can you imagine if Bill Walsh and George Seifert just determined he cant play based on his non game performances and put him on the bench forever, we'd never have gotten to see him in action. having the hall of fame coach did not make him a great player, being given a shot and using his chance well is what made him great. Im just saying, hold off on your judgement of Tim Tebow until youve seen enough to really make a determination
It's not that black and white. Tebow was always known as not only a hard worker, but a leader who practiced well. He was never awful in practice at Florida all week and then come Saturday would just go out and score 5 TDs. He always performed at a consistently high level. Denver's organization has not only said he isn't practicing well, but he is regressing. The guy doesn't deserve to get on the field until he proves he belongs there. Also, most NFL games are relatively close, no one will get credit for almost winning. You have to win and in 3 games against 3 non playoff teams last year he went 1 and 2. Yes, he was a rookie, but the Broncos believe he is not taking the necessary strides a second year player must make.
You must not remember the Tampa Bay Steve Young. The Steve Young who 'could get a grasp of the NFL style of play' according to Tampa coaches. The same Steve Young they couldn't do anything with. Like Tebow will be, Steve was given up on. He didn't get a fair shot, and wound up being traded to the Niners. History tends to repeat itself, especially as it pertains to stupidity, so I wouldn't be suprised to see Tebow in a Colts or Pats uniform next year.
BTW: How ironic would it be to have John Elway, the man who refused to play for Indy coming out of college, who goes on to have a HOF and championship career, trade Tebow to the very team he dissed 25+ years ago... just to see him go on to a HOF and championship career. That would truly be karma.
Florida also designed everything to accommodate Tebow, from recruiting to playbook, giving him the chance to be successful. What has Denver done to put Tim a good situation? What have they done to make themselves better regardless of QB? Again, Kyle Orton led that team to THREE WINS! How a four win team can sit there and tell someone who has won more on and off the field than anyone in the entire organization besides the GM, that he is not ready is flat out fuckin' ridiculous!
You just answered your own question. What have they done to make themselves better regardless of QB? Almost nothing, so unless you somehow thought Orton was Elway, there isn't much he can do. And no one really gives a shit what Tebow has won 'off the field.' It ain't a conspiracy and it ain't a coincidence. Denver isn't going to make a dent in the AFC West this year but Orton gives them the best chance to win every single week. You don't have to take it from me. You can take it from the fact that aside from the coaches, the ENTIRE LOCKERROOM wants him as their starter.
This sums it up right here...The dude hasn't even gotten a chance to play on a consistent basis yet!
The biggest thing Tebow has won off the field is THE FANS! If you are a four win team, how much are you gonna put into what the locker room wants? Denver owes it to the fans (whom they oughta feel lucky to still have after what you've put them through in the past 5 years) to put the guy they wanna see on the field. Denver continues to put a complete fail job of a team on the field, and have the audacity to slight the fans in the process. Tebow is putting butts in the seats and money in pocket... bottom line. Orton doesn't. Not only that, but he doesn't make up for it in wins.
Denver is a fucking joke, and when they suck ass... yet again... with the QB they feel is their best option... then what. Lemme guess, throw away seasons trying to justify Orton as a top QB, like SF is trying to justify Alex Smith as a number 1 draft pick???
By that implication the New England Patriots should have drafted Doug Flutie in the first round. The same opportunity is there for Tebow as with any other quarterback. HE HAS TO EARN IT. If you can't even beat out Kyle Orton for the starting job you can't win in this league. Sorry, but that's just a fact. This ain't Rudy or Rocky. This is the NFL.
You mean earn it like Sam Bradford?
...or maybe like Matt Ryan?
...or perhaps Matt Stafford?
Yeah... they kinda didn't 'earn' it. They were drafted in to it.Tebow should've no different. Denver sucks ass. Keeping the veteran 3 win QB is asinine.
Wasn't aware that Tebow was the #1 overall pick that a franchise banks their future on:1orglaugh He wasn't even DENVER'S first first rounder last year. Dude, they're not asking Tebow to slay a lion in the Roman coliseum. They're simply asking him to be able to beat out a mid-level quarterback. And the kid needs to feel lucky he has such fan fare, b/c at this rate that's the only thing even keeping him on the roster. If the back of his jersey didn't read Tebow he's be under center on the practice squad
Wasn't aware that Tebow was the #1 overall pick that a franchise banks their future on:1orglaugh He wasn't even DENVER'S first first rounder last year. Dude, they're not asking Tebow to slay a lion in the Roman coliseum. They're simply asking him to be able to beat out a mid-level quarterback. And the kid needs to feel lucky he has such fan fare, b/c at this rate that's the only thing even keeping him on the roster. If the back of his jersey didn't read Tebow he's be under center on the practice squad
...but it does read Tebow, and his personal history can not be thrown out. You know what you're gonna get with Orton. Mediocrity. You honestly don't know what Renowned has, and Denver seemingly has no interest in finding out. Further more, the fans have to sit through the shit.
maildude
Postal Paranoiac
They said they have left that option. Davis is still drawing up some hot TP plays on it...
3rd round is a bit high for a guy who doesn't have a set position and is not suited to play QB at this level........but at least we didn't blow a first round pick on a guy like that like the Broncos did.
To be fair to the Tebow detractors, there have also been a lot of players in the position he is in that have had similar characteristics that...ended up really sucking.
It's in all probability not usually accurate to base something on one of the few people to make it under a similar set of circumstances and ignore the countless others that don't come to mind right away and that have failed.
Steve Young is an exception that proves the rule, not the basis players should follow for success, because if that were the case there would be a lot of players that did what he did.
I don't know what you have against Orton either. He's not a future hall of famer, but he's probably in the upper half of the league as far as quarterbacks go and is a hell of a lot better than Tebow is now. Doing things that will hurt a team's chances of maximizing wins now and in the future to play politics is pretty much always an incredibly bad idea. Any coach that also lets the fans, the media, popular local sentiment, or said politics make roster decisions or on the field calls also is almost doomed to fail.
I don't put it past Tebow to develop into a decent quarterback in a few years even if I think the chances of him being great are remote, but shoving him in there for poor reasons isn't going to do anything good for the team or him for that matter.
I don't have anything against Orton, but as a longtime Bears fans, I know what he can do, and quite frankly... Kyle Orton does not win you games. The problem I have is that when you got a guy who has done nothing but win up to this point, the fans pay good money for the chance to see him and buy his uni, and you have amassed only four wins the previous season... I cannot see a reason not to give him an equal and fair shot.
I honestly do not want to hear anyone saying Tim Tebow is not as good as other QBs in the league because we just don't know. I'm certainly not going to trust in a locker room full of losers or a coach just coming off a lame duck stint. I trust what I see, and when my eyes deceive me, the numbers don't. Okay, so in very limited game action (not practice) what did I see?:
I saw in Tim Tebow a guy who can get it done... point blank. Rough around the edges, but given more time can only improve. His worst game stat wise, was his best game as a QB. In that game against Oakland, he once again put Denver in a position to win through his determination. They came up short, but not through fault of #15. Now, what do the stats say?:
3 games started
41 of 82 for 654 yards
5 TDs
3 INTs
227 YDs Rushing
6 Rushing TDs
1 Fumble
QB Rating: 82.1
Here is where it gets interesting. Orton, in 13 games, won only 3 of them. For the season, he amassed 20 TDs total threw 9 INTs and was sacked 34 times. Even though Orton had 3653 YDs through the air, his per game average was 281 YDs per contest.
Tim Tebow had 11 total TDs in only 3 games. Given the same opportunity (13 games started) at the same rate and stats, Tebow would have passed for 16 TDs and rushed for 19 TDs for a total of 35 TDs. Also, despite popular belief, Tebow's passing numbers wouldn't bad either. Tim would have averaged 218 Yds per for 2834 Yds total. Tim also would have been sacked 14 times less than Kyle, but would've had 13 INTs to Orton's 9.
Keep in mind that this is based on what we had in both QBs game actual game breakdowns, and in my opinion, have to be taken into consideration. If you honestly looked at Tebow play in game, and consider the averages in stats, how could anyone with any sense slight him? The ironic part of the numbers is that they are very similar to his college numbers. Damn practice performance, he can get it done.
Phrases like "win you games" and "who can get it done" are clique phrases that most of the time don't have any basis in factual basis in analysis.
Extrapolating the small sample sizes of games Tebow was in especially considering the competition, that it was the end of the season, and considering nobody had professional game tape on him yet (and considering he still didn't do that great in them) seems like a poor way to judge somebody. I highly doubt he would have been able to keep up the same rate of rushing touchdowns. The fact that people on the team think that not only has he not gotten better, but that he has actually regressed from last year is a pretty bad indicative of what he can do right now. All that also ignores Orton's other years with the Broncos which were pretty good. Orton didn't even loose last year because of the offense. It was pretty much the putrid defense that made that was the main thing in making the Broncos lose so much.
I would almost bet the Broncos are doing a sigh of relief right now they didn't trade Orton like they wanted to.
The problem with Kyle Orton is that he has a long history of inconsistency. The defense was bad last season, but its not an excuse for him wining only 3 games last season, esp. in the 52-14 agaisnt the Raiders, yes bad defense, but Kyle Orton did not put up points. the numbers last season are quite good with the 20 TD's and 9 Int's along with the completion percentage, but he was playing from behind 95% of the time the game wasnt scoreless, so of course hes going to compile numbers like that quite a bit....He never had a season that good in Chicago or he wouldnt have had to battle Rex Grossman all those years for the starting job, and certainly the Bears wouldnt have traded him in the unceramonious way they did. I stand by my word when i say Kyle Orton is not a winning quarterback.
