BAYAMONXXX
Land Of The Snakes
Jason Williams wasn't a NBA legend you fucking dummy. All he had was some flashy passes that's it. That doesn't make him a NBA great.
NBA '12/'13 Thread.
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Jason Williams wasn't a NBA legend you fucking dummy. All he had was some flashy passes that's it. That doesn't make him a NBA great.
lol I still have his jersey and wear it from time to time.Are you confused or just stupid :1orglaugh !
One of my best friends and his youth pastor were at the Mall of America and met Tom (he was there just randomly shopping). They had actually just been to a Wolves game the day before and Tom signed the stubs for them and even chatted with them for a minute. No lie. They told be he was really cool.
This Wolves team has a TON of upside if these goddamn injuries just stop occurring. With Howard just now waived they are going to sign someone else now and there is talk they may try to trade for Varejao.
LOL What a Moron 
... J Will was named to the Top 25 HEAT Players of All-Time in 2007... Amongst those who know, he is ranked talent wise in the same class with Pistol Pete...However, he also has a NBA championship to valdiate his career in the eyes of people of your ilk....
Next time try learning something about a player before you rock his jersey...fuckboy !
... J Will was named to the Top 25 HEAT Players of All-Time in 2007... Amongst those who know, he is ranked talent wise in the same class with Pistol Pete...However, he also has a NBA championship to valdiate his career in the eyes of people of your ilk....Next time try learning something about a player before you rock his jersey...fuckboy !
I have to agree with my man Bayamon. Williams may be a fanfav in Miami and street ball circles, but NBA legend he is not.. That's like me saying Derek Fisher is an NBA legend because he is an all time Laker.
One of my favourite plays is Williams getting out hustled by a real legend in Rajon Rondo..
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=vvcbMNJQVbI&desktop_uri=/watch?v=vvcbMNJQVbI
Sorry its mobile. If it doesn't work, YouTube Rajon Rondo dive ball Jason Williams..
White Chocolate did have a sic handle though.
One of my favourite plays is Williams getting out hustled by a real legend in Rajon Rondo..
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=vvcbMNJQVbI&desktop_uri=/watch?v=vvcbMNJQVbI
Sorry its mobile. If it doesn't work, YouTube Rajon Rondo dive ball Jason Williams..
White Chocolate did have a sic handle though.
White Chocolate was voted as a top 25 all-time great by the the Miami Heat (ahead of future Hall of Famer Gary Payton who was on the same championship team), as well as the No.3 ballhandler of the past decade by industry journalists for periodicals such as Dime magazine...so his legacy is beyond dispute...The only question to me is will Rubio, who I think is similar to J.Will in terms of style and flair, have a career anywhere approaching J.Will in terms of longevity and becoming a champion,,,I think its a long shot, but it will be fun to watch him try. Even Hall Of Famer Maravich, arguably the greatest ball-handler of all-time, never won a championship in college or the pros.
Derick Fisher is definately a legend compared to Rondo as far as being a lead gaurd...esp. in terms of hitting big shots and winning multiple championships...Rondo is no legend...he racks up assists, but he only won one championship with basically the veteran Sam Cassell leading the way and Rondo still learning his role....He hasn't done anything since then with basically the same core of Celtic Superstars, plus he can't shoot and his decsion making down the stretch is suspect at best.
Laker's fans tend to under-vale Fisher's contributions, but Kobe and the Laker's haven't done much since they replaced him with Nash.
Derick Fisher is definately a legend compared to Rondo as far as being a lead gaurd...esp. in terms of hitting big shots and winning multiple championships...Rondo is no legend...he racks up assists, but he only won one championship with basically the veteran Sam Cassell leading the way and Rondo still learning his role....He hasn't done anything since then with basically the same core of Celtic Superstars, plus he can't shoot and his decsion making down the stretch is suspect at best.
Laker's fans tend to under-vale Fisher's contributions, but Kobe and the Laker's haven't done much since they replaced him with Nash.
If that's how you feel and you believe that Jason Williams is a legend, then that's fine, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, I think I would've reacted similarly to BAYAMONXXX had I seen the post earlier than them:
Are you confused or just stupid :1orglaugh !
To react this way to someone saying "Huh?" to your proclamation of Jason Williams as a basketball legend is juvenile. To question your proclamation is not only fair, but actually quite reasonable as well.
I understand why you responded this way; you simply responded in kind, which is something that I often do as well, unfortunately. It's not constructive to do so, however, and it's equally juvenile.
LOL What a Moron
Next time try learning something about a player before you rock his jersey...fuckboy !
More name-calling. Pretty petty.
Being named to the top 25 Heat players of all-time is hardly enough of an accomplishment to mark someone as a legend as a result of it. Other names on the list: Keith Askins, Bimbo Coles, Sherman Douglas, Grant Long, James Posey, Rory Sparrow, Udonis Haslem, et cetera. Hardly a list of legends, if you ask me. Being "ranked talent wise in the same class as Pistol Pete" is irrelevant. It takes more than talent to become a legend and have a legendary career. Winning a championship can be important in terms of establishing a legacy that can be considered legendary. However, there are exceptions in every sport, including basketball, such as Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, et cetera. All of these players, however, had multiple deep playoff runs and played well in the clutch, and just for whatever reason, happened to fall short of winning a championship. I don't think, in this case, winning/not winning a championship would've done anything to cement/question Jason Williams' status as a legend or not. He wasn't a major contributor to the team that he won an NBA championship with in 2006 anyway (he averaged 9.3 points and 3.9 assists per game). That's not to take away from his accomplishment, he has a ring, and that's more than those aforementioned legends can say, but that doesn't have anything to do with his status as a legend, I don't think.
To be fair, eric2136 did not say that Jason Williams was an NBA legend, he said that he was a basketball legend. So, if street ball circles consider him a basketball legend, then I can see the argument. He's certainly a legend in street ball. But I would still say that calling him a basketball legend is a pretty vast stretch.
Rajon Rondo is not quite a true legend yet, in my opinion. However, you're as entitled to believe that he is one as eric2136 is to believe that Jason Williams is one.
Again, being named one of the top 25 Heat players of all-time is not any special accomplishment. And I would suggest that being named the "No.3 ballhandler of the past decade by industry journalists for periodicals such as Dime magazine" is no big accomplishment either.
Next, you make the point that Pete Maravich never won a championship. And you cite the fact that Derek Fisher won multiple championships and Rondo only won one as a reason for Fisher being more of a legend than Rondo. However, earlier you said that "he also has a NBA championship to valdiate his career in the eyes of people of your ilk" (with validate misspelled). So, you were suggesting that championships weren't needed, in your opinion, to validate a person's career. I agree with this notion. However, now you're using Fisher's multiple championships versus Rondo's one as support for your argument. That is contradictory. And, just to compare the two, Rondo is a three-time All-Star, was an All-Rookie Second Team, an All-Defensive First Team twice, All-Defensive Second Team twice, All-NBA Third Team once, has led the league in assists per game twice, and has led the league in steals per games once; Fisher never achieved a single one of these accomplishments.
Also, Nash has been with the Lakers for not even two months worth of regular season basketball and he only played the first two games of the season, so to say that "Kobe and the Laker's haven't done much since they replaced him (meaning Fisher) with Nash" doesn't make much sense. Plus, he only left last season, so there's been all of the last twenty or so games of last season and the playoffs plus the first almost two months of this season for the "Lakers to do something." Again, your points here don't make much sense.
Bottom line, I don't think that Jason Williams comes anywhere close to being a basketball legend. And I'll tell you why:
He averaged 10.3 points and 5.9 assists per game for his career. His career high for points per game was 14.8. Those numbers are far from legendary. He won one championship, but as I mentioned before, he wasn't a major contributor. More importantly, besides that one year with the Heat, he rarely went deep in the playoffs. In fact, with the exception of his championship year, he only made it past the first round twice, and only past the second round once (and that was at the end of his career with the Orlando Magic and he only averaged 13.7 minutes per game in those playoffs). Even more importantly, he wasn't clutch; he wasn't known to make big shots or big plays down the stretch in big games and he was nearly always benched in the fourth quarter of important games, if you can remember (as I do). He was never an All-Star, his only award was an All-Rookie First Team award. His accomplishments fall far short of legendary, in my opinion. And I'm entitled to that opinion, just as you are entitled to yours.
I totally disagree 100%...It's easy to sit back behind a computer and diminish a player's accomplishments just because you want to win an argument, but to be selected by a proffesional NBA franchise to be considered top 25 in the history of the franchise is a HUGE accomplishment that 99% of the player's who have, or ever will, play for the Heat will never acheive...and obviously the franchise considered his contributions to it's first championship to be signifigant enough to vote him to be amongst the most elite to ever play for the Heat ABOVE Future Hall Of Famer Gary Payton, as I already stated.
And also you say being named the 3rd best ballhandler by Dime magazine is "no big accomplishment"...apparently you achieve this type of thing everyday ! You may disagree with the author (had you read the article), but to discount an authoritative source written by people that make a living following the sport and analyzing players everyday is just ridiculous.
Your rationale is convoluted and incorrect...Your reading comprehension skills are poor....NEVER did I say that winning a championship wasn't necessary to validate a career...That is one of the greatest criticisims against Maravich by his critics about his style of play, and also Maravich's greatest criticism of his own career. So your arguments based on that faulty premise are therefore wrong.
You also failed to comprehend my central points about Rondo which are that he can't shoot, especially in the clutch, and he makes poor decisions down the stretch of games...completely in contrast to Fisher who excels in both aspects. Basketball is a team sport, personal statistics are probative of a player's contribution to a winning team, but the ultimate measuring stick for a lead gaurd is wins and losses at the highest level.
The Lakers weren't playing well before he got injured...plus staying healthy is part of the equation. Again your reading comprehension skills are poor, as it should have been obvious that my comments were more about Fisher's positive traits, rather than a criticism of Nash.
Additionally, Fisher was traded to Utah previoulsy where he excelled and help lead the team into the playoffs with many critical shots down the stretch. Laker's certainly didn't win a championship without him and wanted him back...Also he played with OKC last year helping mentor Westbrook and Harden and get them to the Finals...Currently he is on the Mavericks roster also as a mentor. During this whole time period he has been one of the most durable players at his position, while the Laker's have floundered.
To say that J.Will wasn't clutch is just wrong. In Game 6 of the Eastern Finals against the Detroit Pistons, Williams scored 21 points on 10 of 11 shooting in the series clinching game. Williams won his first NBA championship on June 20, 2006 when the Heat beat the Dallas Mavericks in the NBA Finals. During the finals, Williams averaged 12 points and five assists. And this was while splitting PG duties with future Hall Of Famer Gary Payton.
You may not remember his play during his championship run, but I do...It was solid and just what was needed on that team. Obviously The Heat franchise agreed with me and recognized that fact by naming him one of the greatest players in the history of their organization.
Your are certainly entitled to your opinion, but in terms of taking his talent and molding it into a leadership role on a championship team, an honor that 97% of NBA point gaurds never acheive, and the greatest criticism against Pete Maravich, is certainly legendary...Perhaps you don't see it that way because you value a player's personal stats above winning, but if so, I think you are misunderstanding the goal of proffesional team sports.
As I said, Williams legacy is beyond dispute, you may disagree on a porn board, but proffesional authoritative basketball sources are in agreement...My initial post, which you apparently missed or misunderstood, was comparing Rubio, another lead gaurd who plays with a certain style and flare, and if he will have a career anywhere approaching J.Wills in terms of longevity and earning a championship.
Legend is a pretty strong word, good, sure, legend, not in my eyes. All IMO. My favorite player for a few years while growing up was Dikembe Mutombo. He won defensive player of the year two years in a row. Do I consider him a legend, in the league with Jordan, Bird or Shaq (to name a few). Nope! Same with Williams.
Just for the record, Fisher is one of my all time favourite players, so I'm not undervaluing him at all. He's not a legend. He's hit some big shots and that's pretty much it. He was a weakness on all the these recent Lakers teams.
And please don't even compare Williams to Payton. Everybody knows who the better player is, so don't try and act like being higher on the all time Heat players list means shit. If anything, this proves that being a fan favourite doesn't make you great.
And please don't even compare Williams to Payton. Everybody knows who the better player is, so don't try and act like being higher on the all time Heat players list means shit. If anything, this proves that being a fan favourite doesn't make you great.
I think it's pretty apparent that you're overstating the importance of being named one of the top 25 Heat players of all-time. I will say it again, since you failed to address what I actually said: being named one of the top 25 Heat players of all-time means little to nothing in terms of being a legend. Again, Keith Askins, Bimbo Coles, Sherman Douglas, Grant Long, James Posey, Rory Sparrow, and Udonis Haslem were all also named to the list. Are they legendary too just because they were named to the top 25 Heat players of all-time as well. This is such a weak argument, this and:
What I said wasn't ridiculous. It's no big accomplishment. It's not a big deal. Very few people would know or care that Jason Williams was named "the 3rd best ballhandler by Dime magazine." What you're saying, however, is ridiculous. The "authoritative source written by people that make a living following the sport and analyzing players everyday" didn't claim that Jason Williams was a legend, which I seem to have to remind you, is the topic we are debating, the source claimed that he was the third best ballhandler of all-time. I might agree with that after carefully considering the contenders. Again, being the third best ballhandler of all-time means little to nothing in terms of being a legend. And saying "apparently you achieve this type of thing everyday" is the classic argument of weak minds.
My rationale and my reading comprehension skills are just fine. I wouldn't say the same thing about you. You didn't outright say that winning a championship wasn't necessary to validate a career, but you certainly suggested it. Why else would you have said "he also has a NBA championship to valdiate his career in the eyes of people of your ilk," (validate misspelled) suggesting that you're not of that ilk. Then you cited winning multiple championships (directly cited, no mere suggestion) as support for your notion that Derek Fisher is a legend. So, you contradicted yourself. It's pretty obvious. Now you're just incapable of owning up to it. Moving on...
Rondo isn't a shooter. Even so, he has had some remarkable shooting performances in the playoffs and in the clutch, the likes of which Derek Fisher has never had (such as 16 of 24 for 44 points, 10 assists, and 8 rebounds in Game 2 against the Heat in the Eastern Conference Finals last postseason, a game which the Celtics did lose, but a performance like that speaks for itself, win or lose). Don't get me wrong, Fisher has hit some HUGE shots in the clutch. That is not in question. He's a clutch shooter for the ages. To suggest that Rondo makes "poor decisions down the stretch of games" is blatantly false. He has proved himself in the postseason already at only 26 years old. Last postseason, he averaged a remarkable 17.3 points, 11.9 assists, 6.7 rebounds, and 2.4 steals per game. He was being talked about as the unquestioned MVP of the postseason until the Celtics were ultimately eliminated by the Heat in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals. And he has excelled in other postseasons as well; he averaged 15.8 points, 9.3 assists, 5.6 rebounds, and 1.9 steals per game in 2010 when the Celtics lost to the Lakers in the NBA Finals. And, overall, he has averaged 14.5 points, 9.2 assists, 6.0 rebounds, and 2.0 steals per game in 92 career playoff games at, again, just 26 years old. These are averages that Fisher has never approached.
The "he" here is Steve Nash. Again, you're making a blatantly false suggestion here when you say that the "Lakers weren't playing well before he got injured." They won their division last season and then lost to a stellar team (the Oklahoma City Thunder) in the Western Conference Semi-Finals last postseason (who went on the sweep the league's best team (the San Antonio Spurs) in the regular season in the Western Conference Finals). I wouldn't say that they weren't playing well.
I agree with all of what you said above here.
He wasn't clutch. As I mentioned already, he was nearly always benched in the fourth quarter of big and close games throughout his career. Those of us who remember correctly know this. Citing one game (and not a body of work) proves nothing.
It seems that you're remember things not as they were. Jason Williams did not average 12 points and 5 assists per game in the 2006 NBA Finals, as you said. He, in fact, averaged a pretty paltry 8.8 points and 4.7 assists per game, and shot a dismal 36% from the field and 63.6% from the line (and you say that Rondo is a bad shooter in the clutch, pretty contradictory yet again). And, overall, his playoff numbers are quite dismal: 8.3 points and 3.3 assists per game, and 39.3% from the field in 67 overall games (which is fewer than Rondo has played at only 26 years old). Even in what was just Rondo's second NBA season in which he won his championship with the Celtics (in which you said he was still just learning his role and that Sam Cassell led the way) he averaged 9.3 points, 6.7 assists, and 1.5 steals per game, which is clearly better than what Jason Williams did in his only NBA Finals appearance. And in the 2010 NBA Finals against the Lakers, Rondo averaged 13.6 points, 7.6 assists, 6.3 rebounds, and 1.6 steals per game, again, much better than Jason Williams. Also, Rondo has played in two NBA Finals, three Eastern Conference Finals, and he's made it past the first round in five straight postseasons. Williams only played in one Finals, one Conference Finals, and only made it past the first round three times (the final of which was with the Orlando Magic when he only averaged 13.7 minutes per game). And, again, Rondo is still just 26 years old, while Williams is already retired. If Williams is a legend, as you suggest, then Rondo would have to be some kind of legend himself.
Jason Williams did not have a leadership role on any team he ever played on; he was, in fact, an extremely poor leader and many of his coaches had trouble with him and felt like they couldn't trust him with the ball in his hands down the stretch. And he certainly did not have a leadership role with the Heat in 2006. Remembering it as any different than that just shows how blind you are to the truth and reason. I do not misunderstand the goal of professional team sports in any way. The goal is to win championships, I know that, but I don't think that players such as Charles Barkley, John Stockton, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, et cetera, are not legends because they never won a championship. Because they all did amazing things in the postseason, and just happened to fall short of winning a championship.
Williams legacy as a legend is in more than dispute. Very few basketball pundits would agree with your assertion that he is. It is irresponsible to suggest that "proffesional authoritative basketball sources are in agreement" (professional misspelled) that Williams is a legend. That's not what they said at all. They said that he is one of the 25 best Heat players of all-time, and that he is the third best ballhandler of all-time. They did not say that he was a legend. And I seriously doubt that they ever would.
And I think it would be a major disappointment if Ricky Rubio only ever managed to have a career in line with Jason Williams'. He is destined for much greater than that, in my opinion.
PlasmaTwa2
The Second-Hottest Man in my Mother's Basement
wtf guise
I think it's pretty apparent that you are grossly understating the importance of that accomplishment. Perhaps you don't know the resume' of player's like James Posey sand Udonis Haslem, but I do. You may not think being named top 25 player by a proffesional NBA franchise is a great accomplishment, but that's not really important considering who you are which is nobody who has never accomplished anything noteworthy in basketball whatsoever .
I disagree. Perhaps if you had the talent, and put in the work, to accomplish something of that magnitude on a proffesional athletic level your opinion would be different. Additionally, All authoritative evidentiary sources which have been presented lends support to, and is probative of, the overall legend premise.
When discussing a player's career, the amount of championships won, if any, is always amonsgst the most relevant criteria. Agiain, as you said, I absolutely did not say anything contrary to that, and your comments regarding what you felt I implied or suggested are erroneous and further indicative of your poor reading comprehension.
Rondo isn't even in the same class as Fisher. As I said, just because he accumulates empty stats doesn't make him a greater winner or greater basketball player. He gets numbers on mediocre teams because he dominates the ball. His shooting and decision making, especially in close-out situations, is pathetic. He hasn't done anything without Sam Cassell, one of the smartest players to ever play in the NBA. Cassell lead the Celtics to Rondo's only championship.
Rondo will never get more championships than Fisher. Fisher is one of the greatest most clutch lead gaurds in the history of the Lakers and the NBA.
LOL Seriously.... I think everybody knows that the Lakers weren't playing well before Nash got hurt. Also the Lakers overhauled their roster because of their performance last year, including an early out by OKC with Fisher playing on that "stellar" OKC team.
My stats regarding Jason Williams in the 2006 Finals are verified by Wiki, so if you are going to dispute them provide your alternate source. Besides I have no idea what you're talking about anyways. I never compared Rondo to Jason Williams. I was comparing J.Will to Rubio because of their style of play. I think you maybe agreeing with STDiva that you are a fan of Rondo, which is fine with me. As a Celtic fan I don't like him, I have never liked hiim, and I'd love to see him get traded for somebody like Darren Williams.
Obvioulsy the Heat franchise didn't have any problems with his leadership skills since they named him as one of the greatest players, at the point gaurd position, in the history of their franchise. Selecting him above other great gaurds like Gary Payton who was on the same championship team.
Perhaps Jason William's accomplishments of being a Heat all-time great and an all-time great ball-handler aren't enough for you, but to suggest that Rubio will have a longer career and win more championships is disingenuous and absurd. At his age J.Will was tearing through the league, meanwhile Rubio can't even stay on the Court.
Holy fucking fuck. Got the Spark Notes version guys? :shocked:
I love a good basketball debate. And Fisher is getting way more love than he deserves, but that's ok with me.
Eric...why oh why would you want Daron Williams over Rondo? This blows my mind. DWill is basically Baron Davis 2.0. I think he flames out during this contract. I would have given anybody not named Kobe up for Rondo. He's a triple double threat every day. Great player!!
Eric...why oh why would you want Daron Williams over Rondo? This blows my mind. DWill is basically Baron Davis 2.0. I think he flames out during this contract. I would have given anybody not named Kobe up for Rondo. He's a triple double threat every day. Great player!!
LOL See like I said Lakers fans undervalue Fisher but Kobe never won a championship without him, Just like Micheal never won without Pippen.
Here is what Kobe said when they tried to replace Dereck with Sessions:
Bryant said the hardest thing to replace about Fisher will be his championship experience.
"That doesn't happen by accident," said Bryant. "There's a reason why [certain] players have multiple championships. There's a certain characteristic and an understanding and knowledge and that's not something that's easily taught. You kind of have to go through it and it kind of has to be part of your DNA from the beginning. So, that's something that's obviously tough to replace ...."http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/...offers-somber-response-derek-fisher-departure
You guys seem to think it will be so easy to replace Fish and move on, yet you still haven't succesfully done it...He should have retired a Laker and him being traded was an embarassment to the franchise.
D.Will is the second or third top point gaurd right now...you put D-Will on a good team, like the Celtics when we had the big three, we could have easily won 2 or 3 more championships....You put Rondo on a team like Brooklyn and they wouldn't even be .500.
And so continues the argument of a weak mind.
And so continues the argument of a weak mind... again.
It certainly is "amongst the relevant criteria", as you suggest here. I wouldn't disagree with you there. I was just pointing out that you had obviously contradicted yourself and then failed to admit to doing so, which you have done once again here.
Yet again, your memory is extremely poor. Rondo started all six games of the 2008 NBA Finals and averaged 27.0 minutes per game. Sam Cassell, on the other hand, whom you claim led the team and Rondo to his only championship didn't start a single game in that series, and only played in five of the six games, and even in the five games that he did play he only averaged 10.2 minutes, 3.8 points, and 1.2 assists per game as compared to Rondo's 27.0 minutes, 9.3 points, and 6.7 assists per game. Here is the source:
http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/2007/nba_finals_stats.html
Your memory seems to be quite woeful.
This may be true. However, it does help having Kobe Bryant as a teammate for all five of his championships, and Shaquille O'Neal in his prime for three of them. Just saying...
I'd like you to explain how a division win in the regular season and a trip to the Western Conference Semi-Finals would be considered not playing well.
Of course I'm going to dispute them because they are patently false. Here's my source:
http://www.nba.com/heat/stats/2005/nba_finals_stats.html
In fact, Williams' scoring high in the series was only twelve points, which you falsely claimed (twice, I might add, despite being corrected the first time around) was his average for the series. Get your facts straight.
I realize you didn't directly compare Rondo to Jason Williams. But you assert that Jason Williams is a legend and that Rondo is not, which I do not agree with. I'd honestly prefer Deron Williams to Rondo as well. I think Deron Williams is the world's second best point guard (and is just a shade inferior to Chris Paul).
Naming him as one of the 25 best Heat players of all-time doesn't imply that he was a leader for them. You're saying this as if one goes hand-in-hand with the other, which is simply not true. Might I add that the 25 players were chosen by the fans, not by the franchise, as you say here. So, it's really just a popularity contest which clearly doesn't imply leadership either.
Did I suggest that Rubio would have "a longer career and win more championships" than Williams? No, I did not. I said that if he had a career along the lines of a Jason Williams then it would be a disappointment, which it would because he has the talent to have a much better career than that.
To take a talent like J.will had and develop it through countless hours of hard work into a proffesional product of passing style and grace unlike anything the league has ever seen, except for Maravich, is incredible ,,,then to take that talent and further mold it into a dicipline great enough to contribute on a championship caliber team is indeed legendary...
J.Willl will never be in the HOF because he doesn't have the personal stats, but Maravich had a scoring title and multiple 40 point games...yet he never lead his team and won a championship which, is the ultimate pinnacle of success in team sports.
Without the championship validation, many critics still to this day dismiss the style and flare of Maravich as a no substance side show rather than the greatness of a master basketball player at the highest level.
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