does anyone have that Muhammad cartoon?
I keep hearing about it, and I just want to see it
I keep hearing about it, and I just want to see it
Muhammad cartoon row intensifies
- Thread starter om3ga
- Start date
om3ga
It's good to be the king...
Re: does anyone have that Muhammad cartoon?
......you mean this one?
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=63245
jod0565 said:
......you mean this one?
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=63245
I'm pretty sick of this ignorant ass shit. yeah a hundred people acted violently and stupidly, out of the millions of muslims in the world. it wouldn't be fair for me to come on here and start talking trash against christians on account of the "God hates fags" guy or pat roberts. it seems to me that there simple request is to let them pratice thier faith as they see fit. if you believe in democracy then you should uphold that. muhammed a ticking time bomb? yeah, as long as western society is fanning the flames near the fuse. why don't we try being the bigger people and stop giving them reasons to complain. then we'll see what get's done.
While I might not condone caricatures that would depict somebody else's religious figures badly, I am not going to dispute their right to print them. The people that are asking their governments to apologize for their own citizens expressing their beliefs are being a little silly. Of course that comes from people where the practice of free speech is a foreign concept to them. Part of our strength is the fact that we allow people to think and say their beliefs whether we agree with them or not.
Why did the newspaper print something like that? If I had to make a reasonable argument I would say that they feel Islam condones terrorist actions and perhaps other bad things. In some ways it is unfair. In other ways the belief that it is just a very few bad apples spoiling the bunch doesn’t hold up. While there is certainly some Christian groups that will spout off a bunch of hate speech, and will try to enforce their beliefs on others, there is a large portion of them that will strongly speak out against such things. Some things like terrorism almost all of them will find it repulsive. Islamic nations or people on the other hand don’t go through any real effort to criticize those types of people. Sure there might be a few outspoken people here and there, (and some of them face death for doing so) and sometimes a political figure will give some lip service on how they think all that is just so wrong, but for the most part there is a huge number that either are oppressors/terrorist, help those type of people, secretly agree with them, or turn a blind eye while they let them do what they want. That is not to mention the suppression of some human rights and the treating of woman as second-class human beings. If they just wanted to practice their own religion they wouldn’t care what others do as long as it didn’t affect them. When they want to enforce their beliefs on others it goes beyond just practicing their religion.
That is not to say I believe for one second that every Islamic person in the world is like that. Far from it, I always view people as individuals and not as part of a group to which they belong. The problem is that far too many of them do act that way. I agree that they need to have their own renaissance. Where they actually start questioning themselves. Islam’s biggest fault is that it isn’t self-critical. Too many people that practice it believe it to be beyond reproach. I have hope. In a lot of ways it sound like Christianity hundred of years ago. The people that don’t want their religion viewed in this matter need to start speaking out against what they feel is wrong, even if that might put them at risk. They can’t allow themselves to be scared or oppressed forever; life wouldn’t be worth living otherwise.
Why did the newspaper print something like that? If I had to make a reasonable argument I would say that they feel Islam condones terrorist actions and perhaps other bad things. In some ways it is unfair. In other ways the belief that it is just a very few bad apples spoiling the bunch doesn’t hold up. While there is certainly some Christian groups that will spout off a bunch of hate speech, and will try to enforce their beliefs on others, there is a large portion of them that will strongly speak out against such things. Some things like terrorism almost all of them will find it repulsive. Islamic nations or people on the other hand don’t go through any real effort to criticize those types of people. Sure there might be a few outspoken people here and there, (and some of them face death for doing so) and sometimes a political figure will give some lip service on how they think all that is just so wrong, but for the most part there is a huge number that either are oppressors/terrorist, help those type of people, secretly agree with them, or turn a blind eye while they let them do what they want. That is not to mention the suppression of some human rights and the treating of woman as second-class human beings. If they just wanted to practice their own religion they wouldn’t care what others do as long as it didn’t affect them. When they want to enforce their beliefs on others it goes beyond just practicing their religion.
That is not to say I believe for one second that every Islamic person in the world is like that. Far from it, I always view people as individuals and not as part of a group to which they belong. The problem is that far too many of them do act that way. I agree that they need to have their own renaissance. Where they actually start questioning themselves. Islam’s biggest fault is that it isn’t self-critical. Too many people that practice it believe it to be beyond reproach. I have hope. In a lot of ways it sound like Christianity hundred of years ago. The people that don’t want their religion viewed in this matter need to start speaking out against what they feel is wrong, even if that might put them at risk. They can’t allow themselves to be scared or oppressed forever; life wouldn’t be worth living otherwise.
BNF
Ex-SuperMod
This row is a definition of intolerance and extremism and shows the unifying qualities of a religion designed to keep the masses poor and uneducated (in the present form).
I saw a report of Islamic lunatics going door to door in apartments and hotels in Syria looking for any Westerner to kidnap to make a point.
Where were the militias when Maplethorpe sank a crucifix in urine? Where were the kidnap threats, the actual kidnaps, the violent outbursts from "insulted" Christians around the globe? Oh wait, they protested, boycotted and wrote contrary opinions, if they felt insulted at all.
It is an affront to the western traditions of free speech and freedom of and freedom from religion to give in at all. It may not have been done in "good taste", but who wants to legislate or control taste?
It shows me, among other things, the massive, growing intolerance of fundamentalist Islamics for anything western - and more clearly, the strengthening stranglehold that the extremists are making on mainstream Islam. The "few", and who really believes few, are vocal and focused enough to sway an entire doctrine, because few stand against them (like the Inquisition?!) - for standing against Islamic fundamentalism as a Muslim, is, it seems, a ticket to be called a godless heathen. And what even remotely religious person of any denomination wants to be called that.
I make zero apologies for my utter disgust of anything designed to suppress and quiet my freedoms or yours. I have the freedom print that image and I can exercise that when I wish. And, I can exercise it with the freedom from repression or retaliation. The religious bigots in the heart of these protests, and I don't mean the artist or publishers, will not silence my freedom, just as I (meaning the "western governments") will not go in and silence their right to protest.... Then again, most of them are only allowed to protest in these "universal slap in the face of Islam" situations. Where are their protests against caveman era treatment of women...
There is no freedom from being offended in the west, and that makes an incredibley strong case for, ultimately, who is right. What is the penalty for publishing that image in Saudi Arabia (a rich and "educated" Islamic nation), torture?, loss of a hand?, stoning?
Print it again.
I saw a report of Islamic lunatics going door to door in apartments and hotels in Syria looking for any Westerner to kidnap to make a point.
Where were the militias when Maplethorpe sank a crucifix in urine? Where were the kidnap threats, the actual kidnaps, the violent outbursts from "insulted" Christians around the globe? Oh wait, they protested, boycotted and wrote contrary opinions, if they felt insulted at all.
It is an affront to the western traditions of free speech and freedom of and freedom from religion to give in at all. It may not have been done in "good taste", but who wants to legislate or control taste?
It shows me, among other things, the massive, growing intolerance of fundamentalist Islamics for anything western - and more clearly, the strengthening stranglehold that the extremists are making on mainstream Islam. The "few", and who really believes few, are vocal and focused enough to sway an entire doctrine, because few stand against them (like the Inquisition?!) - for standing against Islamic fundamentalism as a Muslim, is, it seems, a ticket to be called a godless heathen. And what even remotely religious person of any denomination wants to be called that.
I make zero apologies for my utter disgust of anything designed to suppress and quiet my freedoms or yours. I have the freedom print that image and I can exercise that when I wish. And, I can exercise it with the freedom from repression or retaliation. The religious bigots in the heart of these protests, and I don't mean the artist or publishers, will not silence my freedom, just as I (meaning the "western governments") will not go in and silence their right to protest.... Then again, most of them are only allowed to protest in these "universal slap in the face of Islam" situations. Where are their protests against caveman era treatment of women...
There is no freedom from being offended in the west, and that makes an incredibley strong case for, ultimately, who is right. What is the penalty for publishing that image in Saudi Arabia (a rich and "educated" Islamic nation), torture?, loss of a hand?, stoning?
Print it again.
Bravo to that post! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:BNF said:
Why should governments apologize for the newspapers? Thank God or Mohammed or whatever we have free press in the western world that isn't controlled by the governments.
If a newspaper in an islamic country would print a cartoon of God or Jesus, I'd shrug off, move on and not behave like a brainwashed extremist.
I'd second that: "Print it again, Sam!"
:hatsoff: Jackson
It's just a convenient excuse to be angry at the west. They are not angry, threatening people and burning down buildings because their religion demands it, they are angry, threatening people and burning down buildings because they want to. As with all catalysts, the reaction would happen regardless. It merely quickened it a bit, and if it wasn't this it would be something else.
They break our laws, we look down on them, we break theirs and they look down on us. That's how it is. Like I said, there's been a lot of intolerance from both sides over the centuries. We in the west are not saints no matter what some of us like to believe, we just happen to have enough money to call ourselves civilized and utilize more "honorable" tactics in war.
They break our laws, we look down on them, we break theirs and they look down on us. That's how it is. Like I said, there's been a lot of intolerance from both sides over the centuries. We in the west are not saints no matter what some of us like to believe, we just happen to have enough money to call ourselves civilized and utilize more "honorable" tactics in war.
om3ga
It's good to be the king...
D-rock said:
Good points there, D-rock. According to wikipedia, these cartoons were were meant as satirical illustrations accompanying an article on self-censorship and freedom of speech. Jyllands-Posten commissioned and published the cartoons in response to the difficulty of Danish writer Kåre Bluitgen to find artists to illustrate his children's book about Muhammad, for fear of violent attacks by extremist Muslims. All the cartoons are shown on the following link (but can also be found in wikipedia):
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/4673/mohammedcartoons0rn.jpg
As I stated in my previous posts, I can understand most Muslims reactions to these drawings, in view of their religion's laws forbidding depictions of Muhammad.
However I find it offensive that some extremist Muslims displayed slogans yesterday promising another 7/7 outside the Regents Park mosque - about a mile or so from Edgware Road underground station, which was bombed on 7/7.
Where were their feelings for any passers-by who may have been involved on 7/7, and found those slogans offensive and/or distressing?
Come to think of it, where were their protests after the Amman hotel attacks last year, including the Radisson SAS hotel, where most of the victims were killed when a blast ripped through a wedding reception?
It's about time that the average Muslim protested more about the extremist element in their midst, rather than keeping silent and allowing those extremists to stifle discussion about their religion.
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1450/02006051356007dh.jpg
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/5484/02006051363009np.jpg
om3ga
It's good to be the king...
Interesting fact:
In 2001, South Park included an episode called "Super Best Friends" in which Muhammad (and the founders of the other world religions) acted as superheroes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Best_Friends
In 2001, South Park included an episode called "Super Best Friends" in which Muhammad (and the founders of the other world religions) acted as superheroes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Best_Friends
anyone remember the spanish inquesition? it's not like the west is anything in the realm of tolerance, as much as they may like to think they are. shit, utah banned the showing of the movie brokeback mountain because it was about homosexuality, even though it presented it in a way that was not vulgar or obscene and on the level with every single other typical heterosexual romance movie it's just like the whole Iran nukes thing, we dropped nukes on japan, so why is that ok? but it's not ok for anyone else to use them. bottom line: don't dish it out if you can't take it.
Syrians have set fire to the Norwegian and Danish embassies in Damascus to protest at the publication of newspaper cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
News from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4681294.stm
News from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4681294.stm
There are many good opinions in this thread, so there´s no need for me to write my opinion cause i can find it in the other replies.
There´s only one problem i have. I feel more and more afraid of those braindead people in these countries. One day you get killed by them when you say hello cause your head had the wrong angle when saying it.
When i look in these countries i can imagine how it was in the middle-age in europe.
I also can´t understand why the new-zealand government criticize their press for re-printing this cartoon. That´s the wrong way, cause it is the first step to censor the free meaning.
There´s only one problem i have. I feel more and more afraid of those braindead people in these countries. One day you get killed by them when you say hello cause your head had the wrong angle when saying it.
When i look in these countries i can imagine how it was in the middle-age in europe.
I also can´t understand why the new-zealand government criticize their press for re-printing this cartoon. That´s the wrong way, cause it is the first step to censor the free meaning.
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