Michael Moore

[georges]

personnaly you never who can enter in your home Goblin it can be thief or a murderer.And the police can't always be there so that is why i am for the right to bear and own guns.Imagine that someone entries in my home for stealing somenething and injuries a member of my family, what must i do to let him kill more person or to stop him by shotting him a semi wadcutter bullet in the chest?I take the second option. Some times police is too busy and you have to count on yourself for defending your home, family and goods.
In France if you kill a thief you go in jail instead of him.In France, there is no death penalty and prisoners live like kings, french jails are a paradise a compared to american jails.
Personnally iwould feel safer with an m16 in my car's trunk and a para ordnance in my dad's car's glove box.

just giving you my view on this point

regards

georges

 

[Goblin]

People also get jailed in America for harming people on their property.

There is a famous case here where a Thief broke his foot by falling threw the sunroof of a home he was "hitting" and sued the family. (won)

If you shoot a thief on your property in most states its illegal. (Texas is wierd so its not like that there.)

And American Prisons are not as bad as you would think.

As far as defending my family... I keep my door locked and if they see it open when they get home they know to go to the neighbors and call the cops.

If someone breaks in while Im there I can defend just as easilly with or without a gun. (Because my way... He wouldn't have a gun either.)

There is NOTHING in my house worth killing a person over except for my family. Even a thief.

 

[georges]

well and if you have for example some arere muscle cars or an old collection of old swiss prestige watches would you let a thief steal all your high priced goods?.Many people in the us are watch and cars collectors.

just giving you my thaughts on this point.

regards

georges

 

[Goblin]

I dunno. Depends on the situation.

No one touches my carmel delight girl scout cookies...

 

[parker]

The one thing the pro owning gun people are missing here is that the government already has everyone here by the balls - gun owning or not. The corporations run the government, and the government runs the people. The government will never try to overrun the people if they were unarmed becuase if that happens, you have a lot of unhappy consumers. There goes Coke's profits, and McDonald's profits, etc. What the ruling class wants is a subordinate working class, and it's the government's job to ensure that the people are just happy enough, and just well off enough so that they go to their crappy jobs, buy a bunch of usless crap they don't need, and get further into debt so they have to keep this cycle going and the rich get richer. The government is in place soley for wealth protection. Keeping people like you and me happy is just part of that. But believe it: if they could swoop in and make us all slaves, they would - but then I might not be so excited about buying a new Chevy truck if I didn't think I were free...You guys should check this dude out: http://www.briangage.com - he's got a really cool slant on things and he's not as preachy as Michael Moore. His writing feels more genuine...That's my 2 cents!

This too: Snark Inc.

Excellent post; I'm constantly frustrated by how few people realize this. One sentence from above that warrants repeating:

The corporations run the government, and the government runs the people.

If people fully understood this concept they'd realize just how dangerous big business is. The people running your life are not elected by the people, are in it only for themselves, couldn't care less about your welfare, change laws to benefit themselves and not the public, keep all of the profits for themselves, don't pay taxes, manipulate the judicial system, are anti-democracy, anti-human rights, anti-freedom of speech, etc, etc, I could go on and on but I think you get the point. BTW, does the above sound anything like a dictatorship? Food for thought.

 

[SuzeVideo]

Parker, thanks man...I think a lot more people realize it than they want to admit. And I also think that the media in the US portrays the average US citizen as more ignorant and right wing than they really are. Even supposed "right-wingers" who just want their guns. That to me says, they care about personal rights, and unless they're just ignorant fuckers that should transcend onto caring about other people's rights as well. I shoot guns all the time, but would love it if they were all melted down. I don't feel the social cost of hand guns out weighs the social benefits...

But back to the corporations, it's this simple: You cannot be a regular guy off the street like you and me, and get elected to Federal office. The government on the federal level is the only thing that can harm big business, but it won't. And that's because the federal government is bought and paid for by big biz. I know you know this, and I think most of the people on this thread do...But by the time these jokers get into office, they've already had so much money given to them by big biz that they might as well be wearing corporate logos on their lapels. So come election, who are they going to answer to? the puny voters who just obey what they see on TV, or their corporate masters who control the televisions and tell the voters what to think...

Off the soap box...

 

[parker]

I keep meaning to read this book but haven't yet. Nevertheless, I'd recommend it based upon what others have told me:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0006530400/202-5050560-0067806

 

[Caleb14]

American prisons aren't that bad? Goblin how much time have you spent in prison? As I understand it prison sucks, but I haven't spent anytime there.
As far as Iraq, I'm glad Saddam is I out and I think it was the right thing to do, but I also think we need to get out of there as soon as possible, we are losing to many good people over in Iraq.
Even if we banned guns, ther will always be guns in the country, look at drugs, those are illegal to have, but plenty of people are still able to get them.
This is a good thread with a lot of intellegent discussion,which I really enjoy.

 

[Goblin]

There are people who admit to commiting crimes just to go to Prison because they feel they don't have anywhere else to go.

And drugs are easier to produce than weapons. And you can't swallow a gun and crap it out later.

:hatsoff:

 

[Caleb14]

Ok maybe if they are homeless are something, but evening living in the slums is better than being locked in a cell, and possibly getting ass raped. If you want to ban guns, do you want to ban knives, swords, and the like, those can be used to kill people.(I know this is slipstone arguement but it does hold a little truth, put can be killed with these things) I know drugs are far easier to produce, but still things can be imported into the country, and guns already exist.

 

[SuzeVideo]

Fuck it. Keep swords and knives legal! I mean, I can out run a sword. Nobody's going to go into a McDonalds and mow down 17 people with a sword - unless, of course, they're a ninja. Here's my proposal for gun control - James Willing's "Guns for Swords Program" - you bring us your guns, we'll give you a sword. You can carry it in public, what ever you want. Because, you're never going to hear of a drive by swording where a toddler gets hit by a stray sword, and if you do, then fuck it - it's armegeddon anyway.

I'm James Willing, and I'm asking for your vote.

Or what might be better is "Guns for Bolos". I don't think you can even kill someone with bolos...

 

[parker]

Ok maybe if they are homeless are something, but evening living in the slums is better than being locked in a cell, and possibly getting ass raped. If you want to ban guns, do you want to ban knives, swords, and the like, those can be used to kill people.(I know this is slipstone arguement but it does hold a little truth, put can be killed with these things) I know drugs are far easier to produce, but still things can be imported into the country, and guns already exist.

With all due respect to gun users, any coward can pull a trigger. You don't need physical strength, very much skill (from close distances), or any passion (as in anger) to use a gun, at least not compared to close combat weapons. If most people who used guns to kill others were handed a knive or bat I doubt many of them would have the intestinal fortitude to go through with it. :2 cents:

 

[Caleb14]

All I'm saying is that if you really want to kill somebody, the lack of guns will not prevent this, basically where there is a will, there is a way. First you have to face the fact that there will always be guns, even if they are illegal, why would criminal just hand there guns over to law enforcement? Honest people would, but drug dealers, and the like do you really think they would?

 

[SuzeVideo]

I'm with Parker on this one...The social costs of private citizens carrying weapons way out weigh the social benefits. If you can make legislation to put someone away for 30 years for carrying 3 tabs of Exctasy, then we can do it that criminals carrying handguns go away for even longer...I mean, I don't even trust most mother fuckers to drive their cars, let alone carry a lethal weapon...I don't give a shit how many safety classes someone takes or how many gun safes are in their house. I'd much rather they not have a gun at all...Like Pdawg said - any coward can pull a trigger from a distance, but to beat or stab someone takes real guts...I can out run anybody's knife!

Sure, guns will always exist, but it's time for us as a society to evolve and armed citizens have no place in that. I think the argument of "guns will always exist that's how it is, deal with it" is really shallow in thinking. In fact, that's what the south used to say when there was talk about taking away thier slaves...

I'm James Willing, and I'm asking for your vote....

 

[Caleb14]

First I don't think you need to call me a shallow thinker, or a someone who is pro slavery. I'm not trying to attack anybody, or change peoples beliefs. I'm just stating my belief.
If you can expalin to me why some one who uses guns for criminal activity, e.g. robbing people, killing people, etc.. would hand there guns on to the police because it carries a heavier gun sentence then I will change my mind on this issue.

 

[Jacksson_77]

All I'm saying is that if you really want to kill somebody, the lack of guns will not prevent this, basically where there is a will, there is a way. First you have to face the fact that there will always be guns, even if they are illegal, why would criminal just hand there guns over to law enforcement? Honest people would, but drug dealers, and the like do you really think they would?

I don't think so. Like parker said, pulling a trigger is much easier than killing someone with your "bare hands".
And I think, if there were more legal restrictions to having guns, also less drug dealers or other criminals would wear them.
I'm absolutely against giving any idiot the right to wear guns.
Btw.: I like Michael Moore, although I'm a German, I've read "Stupid White Men".

:hatsoff: Jackson

 

[Goblin]

Well Caleb... They could just discontinue the production of bullets and weapons that are banned.

Its not hard.

And like I said. Its a lot easier to tell if someone has a gun.

And its not like drugs because you can't tell if someone has been using drugs in a neighborhood.

If someone has been using a gun in a neighborhood its obvious to everyone.

It would be a lot easier to enforce.

 

[mongoose018]

I'm going to the Premier in my city tonight. Looks good though, we'll see i guess.

 

[member2686]

That's why people pay for insurance, Georges. If your stuff is stolen, you get paid for the replacement of your goods.

well and if you have for example some arere muscle cars or an old collection of old swiss prestige watches would you let a thief steal all your high priced goods?.Many people in the us are watch and cars collectors.

just giving you my thaughts on this point.

regards

georges

 

[member2686]

Incarceration = 3 "hots" and a cot (three regular, hot meals and a bed upon which to sleep each day). The TRULY despondent and lazy in the world see it as just that... They just don't give a fuck. Struggle in the streets or get everything handed to you...? Prison should be HELL...one meal a day, one shower every 2 weeks, etc. No torture, but the scumbags of society need to fee a threat with prisons!

There are people who admit to commiting crimes just to go to Prison because they feel they don't have anywhere else to go.

And drugs are easier to produce than weapons. And you can't swallow a gun and crap it out later.

:hatsoff: