Michael Moore

[Togath]

well.. with all these thoughts about owning guns and what Bush has done as a president. Well lets go back a few years. First off Clinton was told that Osama was going to be a problem. What did he do? Absolutely nothing.
Was Saddam in with Bin-Laden..? Come on he had to be. Did he have weapons of mass destruction.? The mind is the most evil instruement if used for the wrong purposes. Now with Bowling for Columbine. Moore used it as an anti gun issue. I for one would hate to see guns banned from the general public. We are a great nation because we have freedoms. Granted some people use those freedoms for evil purposes. But I am willing to trade my life for that freedom. Even if it is to one evil S.O.B.
Now, with regards to takeing on the president Bushg and the whole 9/11 thing. Well I could follow anyone around for the day and make them look like a complete ass with a video recorder. It isnt hard to take out of context anything anyone says.
What I did think was cool was when Moore went to governors and asked if they would sign thier kids up to go in the army and go over to Iraq
It is funny though, how Mr. Moore conveniently has his movie out in time just before the election gets going.
Oh no, hollywood isnt full of liberals...
Well all I know is, one way to solve the whole problem in the middle east is get the god damn car companies off the damn fossil fuel's and get them onto alternative fuel sorces...
Oh wait that fucks Bush's stock doesnt it?

 

[lPuerto lRock]

well.. with all these thoughts about owning guns and what Bush has done as a president. Well lets go back a few years. First off Clinton was told that Osama was going to be a problem. What did he do? Absolutely nothing.
Was Saddam in with Bin-Laden..? Come on he had to be. Did he have weapons of mass destruction.? The mind is the most evil instruement if used for the wrong purposes. Now with Bowling for Columbine. Moore used it as an anti gun issue. I for one would hate to see guns banned from the general public. We are a great nation because we have freedoms. Granted some people use those freedoms for evil purposes. But I am willing to trade my life for that freedom. Even if it is to one evil S.O.B.
Now, with regards to takeing on the president Bushg and the whole 9/11 thing. Well I could follow anyone around for the day and make them look like a complete ass with a video recorder. It isnt hard to take out of context anything anyone says.
What I did think was cool was when Moore went to governors and asked if they would sign thier kids up to go in the army and go over to Iraq
It is funny though, how Mr. Moore conveniently has his movie out in time just before the election gets going.
Oh no, hollywood isnt full of liberals...
Well all I know is, one way to solve the whole problem in the middle east is get the god damn car companies off the damn fossil fuel's and get them onto alternative fuel sorces...
Oh wait that fucks Bush's stock doesnt it?

Why would you hate to see Guns banned????

It just odd to hear that.(I know it's your opinion)

 

[Togath]

well dude.. this country was founded on the fact that the ordinary citizen had a gun and defended themselves against the British rule.. if it wasnt fot that there would be no America as we know it. Now, you may ask whatthe relivance of it has with todays society. Well with every bit of freedom that is taken away we become more and more under the control of government.
Lets say by some wierd twist of fate, a tyrannical dictator takes office and basically lops off all of the cabinets collective heads.. I am sure glad to know that there are some extremists out there willing to die to get that guy out of office. Granted thats all very hypothetical.
I know that there is no way that something like that would happen. But, by giveing up freedoms of the masses to control a select few is one step closer to allowing total control of your life.
Anyways, I feel like it is my right to own a gun. I dont, but i would be damned if I would allow that right taken away.

 

[parker]

Yeah, and the next thing they'd do is to start enforcing seat belt laws..... damn gov't, always sticking their noses where they shouldn't be!

Blame Ralph Nader for that one!

 

[lPuerto lRock]

People who seem to use this right to own a gun always seemed to abuse it... I mean you won't know if your next door nieghbor, owns a gun if he/she is a psyhco....for example Jayson Williams he's almost getting off for recklessly shooting his limo driver while he was drunk, and tried to cover it up....he might get a lesser sentenced or probation for manslaugter charges, but was aquited for reckless manslaughter which he could have gotten 10-30 yrs in prison...which i felt was wrong(at least get 10 yrs).

I don't know if you feel safer with a gun at your home, but with children around is a diffrent story....like in the Micheal Moore movie where the mother and her son stays with her brother and while she left to work, her son got his uncle's gun and brought it to school and accidently shot another student and killed her...Now the Columbine incident, was diffrent in way that The Killers were intended to kill students in which they hated, or were made fun of by, but which such hatred they turn to violence and commited a horrfic crime I will never forget....I was in high school when that happen, and was some tension in our school sterotyping students that wear trenchcoats.

Another thing is that it's so easy to get a gun illegaly, it's almost scary to imagine how many people have guns that are not legal.

What good outcome has come with Guns? John F.Kennedy was assainated, many muscians were killed John Lennon, Selena, Biggie,2pac etc.


And if they did take this right away, and banned every gun and took everygun away form owners, does that mean that the Goverment has full control of your life, NO....

We have choices for our politicains, and goverment to elect.

We have a right to chose to have or not have a gun, but what's scary is you don't know if someone with a gun is gonna kill you, or kill someone you love.

to me Guns=Violence with others especially with minorties like myself....

I still don't understand how hunting with a gun to take a animals life a sport??(off topic)

 

[member2686]

P-hound,

If Americans were "run by insane war freaks who can't wait to jump at the chance to kill people," don't you think the United States would just have turned Afghanistan and Iraq into GLASS by dropping a few nukes and saying "fuck all" about it? I suppose the United States just got "horny for war" in the 1940s too, when they decided to save Europe and others from Hitler and the Japanese aggressions?!?!

Under Clinton, for example, there were SEVERAL opportunities to assassinate Osama and Saddam. But the United States has had a policy of NOT assassinating those plague figures across the world. Castro, for example... He has been a petty thug, pain in the USA's ass, for 40 years... If the USA wanted to "kill people" as you stated, they could have fucking nuked Cuba and been done with the whole mess (or sent in an overwhelming force and taken Castro and his "boys" out). But that's NOT how it works.

I find your statement here, P-hound, unconscionably cavalier, careless, thoughtless, reckless, disrespectful, and otherwise completely lacking forethought and level-headedness. What a broad brush with which you paint! THAT is the danger in the world today -- as a horse who wears blinders and just runs straight ahead without seeing things around them, without asking questions whilst painting broad strokes and making ill/uninformed generalizations to support whatever "position" one takes...

I am opposed to the current goings-on in Iraq, essentially. I think it is a good thing that Saddam is going to be held accountable for his atrocities, but the mess that exists now in Iraq was naively ignored. It is and is going to be a quagmire for quite some time. The Islamist Jihadists (not by any means ALL Muslims) are killing people and kidnapping them "in the name of God" and they (the killers) only embarrass all decent Muslims around the world. They are the great minority (the killers), yet they dangerously jeopardize their own religion's credibility.... But where are the Muslim protests? Why are the great majority of Muslims NOT speaking up? Are they afraid? PROBABLY -- NO ONE wants their head cut off or their house blown up. The new Iraqi leaders are being assassinated and targeted for death (by fellow Muslims)... It's FEAR and ignorance we're dealing with here...

To accuse the United States of just wanting to kill people, so childishly and unfoundedly as you did.....well, you lost all manner of credibility with those comments. What an asinine and absurdly ignorant commentary, and terribly offensive and ungrateful. The United States "got off" on the situation on D-Day, eh? The Americans just LOVED going in there and killing people, just for bloodlust? Oh Lord....what a stupid theory...

The USA has made mistakes in this effort, but it doesn't merit the condemnation and accusation of just wanting to kill people as soon as they can, as you characterized, P-hound... That is simply thoughtless to say.

AGAIN, I do NOT support Bush, but I support anti-terrorism, and I really resent such hostile commentaries saying that Americans "just want to kill people." That's something a 12 year-old might say -- NOT an informed, enlightened adult who keeps abreast of news and politics and world affairs.

I'll stop my rant now.

Regards... Peace be with you today!

uh,
yeah dude,
I thank my lucky stars every day that I'm not an American.
any American I've ever been friends with has been an amazing person
who I love and respect like family,
but that country is run by insane war freaks who can't wait to jump at the chance to kill people. not to mention a million other problems.

 

[lPuerto lRock]

I totally agree with Nightfly.......


I'm already pissed off at Pres. Bush now for selling a War to the American Public and lying about the WMD's. I watch that whole thing with Colon Powell trying convince the the other courtries that Iraq had WMD's, and countries like France, and Russia refused to belive them, and for awhile I was against them and other protesters that were against the war...I thought Bush would come and admit he was wrong, but he goes out and say we wanted to free the people of Iraq, and give them a Democratic society WTF!!!! I never heard that in the begining, so all this hype was for the Iraq people's freedom and now they're hostile against us and killing our troops one by one everyday, and what good came out of this, Sadaam in a foxhole wahooo!give me a break.....I definetly want to see this new film by Micheal Moore

 

[P-hound]

you cannot begin to compare the courage and honour of the people
in World War II
to what is happening right now.
I'm sure if they could get away with it,
the american government would nuke Iraq in a second.
probably make into the "world"s coolest water park" or something
retarded like that and charge money to see it.
They already basically gave the finger to the united nations and
did what they wanted.
but I guess that's because of all the weapons of mass destrution Iraq had.
oh yeah wait a second....they didn't have any.....
oops.
oh well, I guess you can do whatever you want when you have
the world's biggest military.

I guess in that way the glorious war in Irag is just like World War II.
the whole world should bow down to mighty america and thank them
for saving us from the gigantic army of Iraq.
and the way the brave american soldiers tortured the prisoners,
that really showed them who was boss.
oh wait a second, no, that just got them even angrier so
they killed more innocent people over there.
I'm sure all the Vetrens of World War II were proud of that wonderful
accomplishment or maybe it made them sick to their stomachs and cry
one or the other.

yep, Bush is doing a fine job.
he's basiclly the new JFK.
keep up the good work.

 

[Togath]

man, there is so much i want to say to this under educated p-hound. But to be honest, it isnt even worth the waiste of my time.
Nightfly, that was a very intelligent, well thought out response to a moronic baffoon. And, in seeing his post, I firmly believe america should pull in all the markers the rest of the world owes it from WWII to present day time. Take that back owed money and letthe rest of the world go take a flying leap. Should of done it in 1942 then p-hound would be talking like an ass in german or japanese....

 

[member2686]

Again, P-hound....you're avoiding the facts and just following in the style of a lemming.

Oh and there ARE and WERE WMDs. Sarin gas shells? Ask a Kurdish person about the WMDs. There are still some Kurds left...

 

[SovereignAxe]

did anyone check out my link about Kennesaw, GA?

 

[MightyKrendall]

I now hate Michael Moore. I found out today from hearing an interview from him that he has vids of American soldiers abusing Iraqis in the upcoming movie. When asked about when he filmed it, he said DECEMBER. I think it should have been his duty as an American citizen to report those soldiers so the problem could have been dealt with earlier. But of course he didn't. He wanted to have exclusive footage of a few bad US soldiers (which he'll no doubt claim is most of them) and he wanted the media to get ahold of their own evidence so it would blow up in Bush's face.

You know, I don't agree with everything the Republican party stands for or all their policies, but the way the Democrats handle things through constant lies, half-truths, and fence-riding pisses me off to no end.

 

[Goblin]

Got a link to the interview?

I would agree with you if this is true. What kind of ass would do that?

 

[Jizm]

I'm just gonna avoid this thread, because there's a lot of b.s. in it.
:hatsoff:

 

[coldknock]

The thing about the NRA is that they always say its their right to have guns by the 2nd Amendment.

The 2nd Amendment is an outdated Amendment. There isn't a need for militia in todays society. We have a large standing ARMY and the National Guard is technically the state's militia.

They are abusing an amendment that shouldn't even be in effect anymore.

Sorry, I just can't leave this one alone. I mean no disrespect Goblin but you need a history lesson.

We had state militia's in the very beginning of this country. They were a farce, designed to keep the people under control. Nothing more. It wasn't military might that won this countrys independence, it was ordinary citizens. Armed ordinary citizens.

Go read a few history books and you will see that this countrys army was being overrun and the people, armed with hunting rifles of the period, beat the opposing army into submission with ruthless tactics.

You no doubt consider firearms as tools that criminals use in comitting crimes. If this was the case then I suppose we should all run for the hills because the vast majority of the citizens in this country must be criminals.

Take a look at the link posted by SovereignAxe here here and you will see the effect of private firearm ownership. Check the statistics if you like. I did and they are accurate.

Here's a couple of quotes from the people that helped found this country.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

Do you honestly think that the government we have would turn down the chance to rule this country rather than just serve it as it should and was designed to do. The fact that we, the citizens, are armed provides us with the peace of mind that this will not happen. That and religious freedom are the biggest reasons we fought so hard for independence. I will place the quote again for you to read.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.


Larry

 

[MightyKrendall]

Got a link to the interview?

I would agree with you if this is true. What kind of ass would do that?

I heard him say it on the radio earlier today. I haven't found it online yet. I believe it's going to be on the next 60 Minutes.

 

[SuzeVideo]

The one thing the pro owning gun people are missing here is that the government already has everyone here by the balls - gun owning or not. The corporations run the government, and the government runs the people. The government will never try to overrun the people if they were unarmed becuase if that happens, you have a lot of unhappy consumers. There goes Coke's profits, and McDonald's profits, etc. What the ruling class wants is a subordinate working class, and it's the government's job to ensure that the people are just happy enough, and just well off enough so that they go to their crappy jobs, buy a bunch of usless crap they don't need, and get further into debt so they have to keep this cycle going and the rich get richer. The government is in place soley for wealth protection. Keeping people like you and me happy is just part of that. But believe it: if they could swoop in and make us all slaves, they would - but then I might not be so excited about buying a new Chevy truck if I didn't think I were free...You guys should check this dude out: http://www.briangage.com - he's got a really cool slant on things and he's not as preachy as Michael Moore. His writing feels more genuine...That's my 2 cents!

This too: Snark Inc.

 

[nr2414]

bowling for colombine was good

 

[Goblin]

Sorry, I just can't leave this one alone. I mean no disrespect Goblin but you need a history lesson.

We had state militia's in the very beginning of this country. They were a farce, designed to keep the people under control. Nothing more. It wasn't military might that won this countrys independence, it was ordinary citizens. Armed ordinary citizens.

Go read a few history books and you will see that this countrys army was being overrun and the people, armed with hunting rifles of the period, beat the opposing army into submission with ruthless tactics.

You no doubt consider firearms as tools that criminals use in comitting crimes. If this was the case then I suppose we should all run for the hills because the vast majority of the citizens in this country must be criminals.

Take a look at the link posted by SovereignAxe here here and you will see the effect of private firearm ownership. Check the statistics if you like. I did and they are accurate.

Here's a couple of quotes from the people that helped found this country.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.

Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive.
---Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

Do you honestly think that the government we have would turn down the chance to rule this country rather than just serve it as it should and was designed to do. The fact that we, the citizens, are armed provides us with the peace of mind that this will not happen. That and religious freedom are the biggest reasons we fought so hard for independence. I will place the quote again for you to read.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.


Larry

The whole point to my post is that it is outdated. Your argument is that its a part of history. But we don't need it anymore. There is no reason.

And as far as facts you can check the NRA website. They have a chart of how many deaths are caused by privately owned Firearms.

(Though they use it as a defense it is still a high appalling number of people.)

In todays society we don't need weapons. They did back then. We don't know. The state's militia are the National Guard.

The second amendment is to protect your freedom (From a state level) against a powerful national government.

It also states that it has to be well maintained. I doubt private gun owners are well maintained.

Guns don't kill people... People do. But it'd be a hell of a lot harder without a gun. And it wouldn't have as many side casulties either.

I was in the service. My rifle stayed in the Armorie for the Supply Guy to keep track of. Ive never owned a firearm in my life outside of the military. There is no reason to.

I think the government should make a law that there is only allowed to be ONE kind of weapon sold in ONE variation. With only 3 Rounds before you have to reload.

There is no freaking point to a semi-automatic weapons, hollow-tip bullets, tracers, or small pistols.

Defend your home and family? Please... From what? Your just paranoid. If everyone didn't have a gun it would be a lot easier to defend your home without shooting someone.

Its an outdated amendment. Just like you said... Its history. Its no longer needed. Prohibition is history too. But we don't have it anymore.

 

[foxycougar]

Wow, this is like the speech thread, huh?