Israel: Neo-Nazi in the making?

[pussy+dickdenice]

In an interview Chomsky said:

NOAM CHOMSKY: I think it will probably be very much like the UN resolution that you mentioned, which is -- I'm sorry, I couldn't hear what Mouin Rabbani was saying. But the UN resolution was -- the veto of the UN resolution is standard. That goes back decades. The U.S. has virtually alone been blocking the possibility of diplomatic settlement, censure of Israeli crimes and atrocities. When Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982, the US vetoed several resolutions right away, calling for an end to the fighting and so on, and that was a hideous invasion. And this continues through every administration. So I presume it will continue at the G8 meetings.

The United States regards Israel as virtually a militarized offshoot, and it protects it from criticism or actions and supports passively and, in fact, overtly supports its expansion, its attacks on Palestinians, its progressive takeover of what remains of Palestinian territory, and its acts to, well, actually realize a comment that Moshe Dayan made back in the early '70s when he was responsible for the Occupied Territories. He said to his cabinet colleagues that we should tell the Palestinians that we have no solution for you, that you will live like dogs, and whoever will leave will leave, and we'll see where that leads. That's basically the policy. And I presume the U.S. will continue to advance that policy in one or another fashion.

The full version of the inter view.

It appears the victim of Nazism is now becoming the Neo-NAZI themselves with active participation of US Govt.

Is it the rat turning to a hayenna?

But would we really care????????????????

dd

ps: I was absent for a few days. If there is a thread on the same, I'm sorry. And I would request the moderators to merge it to the other. Thanks in advance.

 

[georges]

Ok first I really don't like at all the caricaturisation made by Chomsky. Second, none has forgotten what happened to Ron Arad who was shot down and then killed by the Hezbollah and one of their terrorist friends. None has forgotten the sufferings that Israel had to endure with multiple attacks during the years 1996-1997 which lead to Operation Wrapes of Wrath, none has to forget how many civilian lost their lifes in the attacks comitted by Terrorists. The UN is a joke and yet it has the nerve to dictate to countries how they should defend themselves. :wtf: The UN military force ("the blue helmets" has proved it unefficiency when it was sent in Lebanon in 1982, in Somalia in Mogadiscio in 1993 as well as in Bosnia in 1998-1999, where they had troubles to keep peace and were constantly the targets of ennemy forces.
Israel is probably the only democracy of the whole Middle East with Jordan and Egypt (for the moment). Saying that Israel is a militarized offshoot only is totally wrong. Israel has attracted some big firms from r&d and electronics fields to establish their hq there. Israel brings something positive to these firms. Israel is probably the only guenine true ally of Europe and USA in the Middle East who protects their interests.
The palestinian elected a terrorist government with the Hamas. We see what results it has given. The results of the hamas government's policy are the following ones:abductions and murders of Israeli soldiers, people blowing themselves and killing innocent civilians, favor of the chariah and radical islamism and it back ups other terrorist groups like hezbollah, islamic djihad, all aksah martyr brigades as well as all other arab countries who have the only goal to destruct Israel.
Israel fought Arab countrie three times inb 1956, 1967 and 1973 and each time it has won despite Arab armies were more numerous.
To this sentence "Is it the rat turning to a hayenna?" I would like to understand why did you use such words towards Israel. Have you have ever visited Israel? If you didn't I think you should not only you will appreciate the country and its people but also you will then understand why Israelis fight terrorism to live in safe conditions.

 

[Perilypos]

Hello, DickDenice, welcome back!

Sorry, but if your post expresses your opinion, I must strongly disagree with you. Israel has been facing attacks since its foundation and still is condemned for its military actions due to protecting its citizens. I am irritated by constant denigrating Israelis with crimes when some civilists die during these actions, while terrorists from Hamas, Hizbullah, etc. don't take care and kill the innocent and unarmed people with full intention and are even accepted as fighters for freedom - it's absolutely disgusting for me. To write more about it is useful, I would only repeat Georges, whose opinion is practically the same as mine.

Nice day to you,

Jan

 

[miguelporno]

pussy+dickdenice If you don't like the policies of the US then get the fuck out. Go live in Israel for a while--the Jews will not kidnap & behead you. Then go live in "Palestine" (there is no such place btw). The towel-headed apemen who have been terrorizing civilization and converting people at the point of a sword for 1400 years b/c of the hash-induced rantings of a maniac WILL cut your head off.

Just like they do young girls in Indonesia for no reason.

How would your "hero" moslems respond to you looking at porn?

You apologists are as bad as the criminals--I'd exterminate you both in Guantanamo without batting an eyelash. You can call me a nazi if you want. Hell, I'll even dress up like Heydrich as I get rid of you all who threaten human civilization

 

[Dixie Normus]

You actually site/trust/listen to Noam Chomsky about anything? Noam Chomsky? :rofl:
Wow.

 

[Calm]

Sorry fox but I think it's the first time I have to disagree with you.
Let me ask you something, have you ever been to the middle east?
Most of you talk about it like you know anything but the truth is you live a sheltered life, have you ever experienced the fear of letting your kid go play with his friends but worry the entire time because arabs were randomly kidnapping and killing Jews who walk in your own neighborhood?

People try to portrait Israel as the bad guy because they have a founded government whereas arabs live in villages without much money; truth is, Israel earned that by winning in wars over and over again (see georges' post).


dd, you compare Israel to Nazis, Nazis killed millions of people, in war, by slavery or by genocide. They deliberatly picked a race and decided it was a plague to this world and should be eliminated. They made animals out of Jews and slaughtered entire families one after another.

Israel is a democratic country who is waging war to protect their citizens and borders. You may argue whether Israel is the victim or not, I don't care, but comparing them to Nazis is insulting to them and me as a Jew. In fact, I demand you change the title of the thread to make it more neutral.

You talk about Palestinian territory, need I remind you that this Palestinian territory is land given to them by Israel? thousands of people evicted from their homes just so they would have somewhere to live and to find a solution for them. So maybe back in the 70's Moshe Dayan didn't think about it but Israel is trying to find a solution since no one wants war.

 

[georges]

I couldn't think Georges and JCM's opinions were any further from the truth, but then such is the ever-raging debate between right and left. Their avatars are great though: Farrah, Raylene, Briana... very nice.

I think Noam Chomsky is brilliant in his intellect and the fact that he speaks the truth. I think someday in our lifetimes we will all realize that Chomsky speaks the truth. I know a lot of us don't want to consider that as a possibility, but anything is possible. I might even be wrong

But I think Chomsky is exactly right.

Fox

I bet you must also acknowledge what Michael Moore says about the USA? You seriously amaze me. Noam Chomsky is not the most brilliant intellect and saying what he says about Israel is insulting, misleading and very anti semitic. Chomsky so called truth is not the truth. What have braught Palestinians with Arafat and now the Hamas to Israel? Nothing good and after if you dare to say that Chomsky is right, then there is a real problem. On which earth are you seriously?
Israel faced three wars with its arab neighbours and faces daily attacks from hamas and hezbollah against its citiizens so Israel has plainly in the right to wreck the shit out of terrorists and their organizations. I also think that people having no idea of what living in Israel means should weight their words before writing anything against Israel.

 

[CeBeSprTNG2005]

Well it sure is true that Israel is attacked over and over again , BUT Israel attacks the Palestinians over and over as well....so for me there is not a big difference between both sides. Except the weapons used of course... *Terrorists* use selfmade bombs and the Israeli troops use the hightech stuff they got from the US. But both have the same fatal effect....and I might act both ways are plain stupid and acts of terror.
As for the matter if the Israelis are become the new form of NAZI´s,....I can´t see that. Although I surely see some questionable tendencies in their so called judgement.
But there surely is a tendency in the western world to call every Israel critic a NAZI or Antisemite and sometimes it appears as if Censorship is all around when Israel is the topic but I don´t think that is nessasary or justified anymore. What happened, did happen in the past. And it was done by another generation. But we have to deal with the present. And the mistakes made NOW ... and that includes that you shall not let the Israelis do what they feel like doing.
But I want to put out that I´m not pro Hezbollah or Terrorists either. Both sides are doing terrible things and as always the civilians suffer on both sides.

@ CALM
So you want to say it is justified when a democratic country fights wars to *secure* their territory (and actually just invading other countries)....and it is wrong if another country that isnt democratic does the same?
Well that is hypocritival and biased.
I don´t know what others thing about it but I think War was, is and will ever be the most barbaric thing to do....no matter how civilised or democratic a country is. ... but I won´t deny that defense is justified, but Israel stepped far ahead of defending now.

PS: I am German, but that doesn´t make me a NAZI, does it?
I´m not a christ, but that doesn´t make me a Muslim.
I am an Atheist but that doesn´t make me a better or worse man than any other.
I know it´s a naiv thought but I the impression and the conviction that all people are the same and need to be ensured the same rights, BUT also need to be blamed for their mistakes the same way. There is no selection between any sort of Nationalities , Religions or Ethnities.

 

[georges]

Sorry fox but I think it's the first time I have to disagree with you.
Let me ask you something, have you ever been to the middle east?
Most of you talk about it like you know anything but the truth is you live a sheltered life, have you ever experienced the fear of letting your kid go play with his friends but worry the entire time because arabs were randomly kidnapping and killing Jews who walk in your own neighborhood?

People try to portrait Israel as the bad guy because they have a founded government whereas arabs live in villages without much money; truth is, Israel earned that by winning in wars over and over again (see georges' post).


dd, you compare Israel to Nazis, Nazis killed millions of people, in war, by slavery or by genocide. They deliberatly picked a race and decided it was a plague to this world and should be eliminated. They made animals out of Jews and slaughtered entire families one after another.

Israel is a democratic country who is waging war to protect their citizens and borders. You may argue whether Israel is the victim or not, I don't care, but comparing them to Nazis is insulting to them and me as a Jew. In fact, I demand you change the title of the thread to make it more neutral.

You talk about Palestinian territory, need I remind you that this Palestinian territory is land given to them by Israel? thousands of people evicted from their homes just so they would have somewhere to live and to find a solution for them. So maybe back in the 70's Moshe Dayan didn't think about it but Israel is trying to find a solution since no one wants war.

great post calm :thumbsup: you have my support

 

[Calm]

Well it sure is true that Israel is attacked over and over again , BUT Israel attacks the Palestinians over and over as well....so for me there is not a big difference between both sides. Except the weapons used of course... *Terrorists* use selfmade bombs and the Israeli troops use the hightech stuff they got from the US. But both have the same fatal effect....and I might act both ways are plain stupid and acts of terror.
As for the matter if the Israelis are become the new form of NAZI´s,....I can´t see that. Although I surely see some questionable tendencies in their so called judgement.
But there surely is a tendency in the western world to call every Israel critic a NAZI or Antisemite and sometimes it appears as if Censorship is all around when Israel is the topic but I don´t think that is nessasary or justified anymore. What happened, did happen in the past. And it was done by another generation. But we have to deal with the present. And the mistakes made NOW ... and that includes that you shall not let the Israelis do what they feel like doing.
But I want to put out that I´m not pro Hezbollah or Terrorists either. Both sides are doing terrible things and as always the civilians suffer on both sides.

PS: I am German, but that doesn´t make me a NAZI, does it?
I´m not a christ, but that doesn´t make me a Muslim.
I am an Atheist but that doesn´t make me a better or worse man than any other.
I know it´s a naiv thought but I the impression and the conviction that all people are the same and need to be ensured the same rights, BUT also need to be blamed for their mistakes the same way. There is no selection between any sort of Nationalities , Religions or Ethnities.

People keep saying that Israel use weapons of better technology and use it against them, like it's a bad thing, I'm sure if they could they would apologize for having a better economy and technology than some parts in the world.

Let's make one thing clear, THIS IS A WAR. In war people die, sucks but its real life, get used to it. The only difference between the two is that terrorists target both soldiers and citizens, whereas Israel targets only terrorists. Citzens may get caught in the crossfire but thats inevitable, to make it not as bad they warn citizens before they bomb populated areas. Can you honestly tell me arabs have such integrity?

Calm: I've been to Oman, the United Arab Emirates, and Saudi Arabia. I've spent a month in a poor village in Tanzania. I lived in my car for weeks in Los Angeles. I lived in a hospital and pretended to be a patient there when I was homeless. I worked in America for cash under the table because I wasn't supposed to be here.

I just got done sleeping on trains for a whole week in Germany cause I didn't have any cash - any - for hotels or even food.

I could have stayed near home with a decent income Dad helping me out, but I chose to go out into the world on my own, left home at 16, and I've been anything but sheltered. Why did you think that about me? Because I went to college?

I may have thought Israel were the bad guys, or rather America and England, in the past: but now, I think there are no bad guys, no-one's all right or wrong, and I value both sides and opinions equally... right up until the opinions lean towards attacking the other side... there needs to be a peaceful solution, and awareness and acceptance have a lot to do with it. Blaming the Muslims is no better than blaming the Jews.

My family are in Iran, so I have my own fears for them right now.

As for fear of kidnapping, I feel for the Israelis there, but I also feel for the Muslims who live in fear of attacks, or Israeli military strikes...

Neither side is ever, ever justified in taking lives from the other side...

In any case, it's okay to disagree, Calm, I like you a lot, but don't assume things about my life - you don't really know me. Then again, I would be happy to share our life stories sometime, I consider you a friend and have a tremendous amount of respect for you and your opinions.

Fox

That wasn't necessarily targeted at you. I just see too many people who voice their opinions without really doing any research or getting any facts and the only time they have ever experienced war was on TV.

I respect you and I respect all opinions except ignorant opinions.

 

[CeBeSprTNG2005]

As I said CALM...you seem Biased and I dont mean it disrespecting.....But tell me the difference between the israeli mother that loses her son by a palestinian suicide bomber and the palestinian mother loosing her son by so called crossfire from an israeli attack ....there is none

And WAR isnt inevitable! It´s just the easiest solution, and that is what we are used to.

 

[Calm]

Calm, I hope you didn't mean that the way it sounds. Arabs have no more or less integrity than any other ethnic group. You said you don't respect ignorant opinions: to think any one group has more ore less integrity than any other based on race or nationality, is outdated and wrong imo.

Even the Portuguese soccer players... they may not seem like they have integrity on the field, but give them a coach other than Scolari... and you'll see a different set of ethics. If Scolari was England coach, you'd see Paul Robinson rolling on the floor, too

Fox

I didn't mean it the way it sounds.
I tend to get over-excited and sometimes mad when I take part in politcal arguments. I don't want that to happen so I'm just gonna stay out of this one.

 

[georges]

Well it sure is true that Israel is attacked over and over again , BUT Israel attacks the Palestinians over and over as well....so for me there is not a big difference between both sides. Except the weapons used of course... *Terrorists* use selfmade bombs and the Israeli troops use the hightech stuff they got from the US. But both have the same fatal effect....and I might act both ways are plain stupid and acts of terror.
As for the matter if the Israelis are become the new form of NAZI´s,....I can´t see that. Although I surely see some questionable tendencies in their so called judgement.
But there surely is a tendency in the western world to call every Israel critic a NAZI or Antisemite and sometimes it appears as if Censorship is all around when Israel is the topic but I don´t think that is nessasary or justified anymore. What happened, did happen in the past. And it was done by another generation. But we have to deal with the present. And the mistakes made NOW ... and that includes that you shall not let the Israelis do what they feel like doing.
But I want to put out that I´m not pro Hezbollah or Terrorists either. Both sides are doing terrible things and as always the civilians suffer on both sides.

@ CALM
So you want to say it is justified when a democratic country fights wars to *secure* their territory (and actually just invading other countries)....and it is wrong if another country that isnt democratic does the same?
Well that is hypocritival and biased.
I don´t know what others thing about it but I think War was, is and will ever be the most barbaric thing to do....no matter how civilised or democratic a country is. ... but I won´t deny that defense is justified, but Israel stepped far ahead of defending now.

PS: I am German, but that doesn´t make me a NAZI, does it?
I´m not a christ, but that doesn´t make me a Muslim.
I am an Atheist but that doesn´t make me a better or worse man than any other.
I know it´s a naiv thought but I the impression and the conviction that all people are the same and need to be ensured the same rights, BUT also need to be blamed for their mistakes the same way. There is no selection between any sort of Nationalities , Religions or Ethnities.

Israel attacks places where are hidden terrorists and kassam manufacturing plants. Terrorists have kassams and ak47s which are enough dangerous to kill civilians.
And yet again I don't understand how can one compare Israeli to a new form of nazis seriously? :wtf: Nazis killed billions of innocent families, if one visited Auschwitz concentrationslager or Yad Vashem, one would perhaps understand how was working the nazi regime against jews.
Palestinians are mainly a population issued from various arab ethnies, Israeli were given the land in 1948 and made of it what it is today. Israel wrecked the shit of terrorists group in Lebanon in 1982 during operation Peace in Gallilee and it also destroyed Irak's Osiraq nuclear plant in 1981. Both operations were fully justified. Israel is wiping out terrorists that represent a threat for the whole Middle East. America went in war against Afghanistan and in Irak to wreck the shit out of ben laden network and as well as getting rid of Saddam. Fighting terrorism by all the means is something I approve, I disapprove and hate laxism against terrorism and the way that many medias victimize a population that yells "allah akhbar" by burning an American or an Israeli flag and who was and is happy when the 9/11 attack happened or when Israeli civilians were and are killed. When a country is attacked a lot of times by the same terrorist groups based in many countries, it is time to wreck the shit out of these terrorist groups based in those countries and kill all their leaders as well as the political parties representing them.

 

[CeBeSprTNG2005]

Well no one wants you to stay out of it .....The worst opinion is an opinion unexpressed

@georges
COME ON PLEASE... no matter how barbaric the nazi crimes were but BILLIONS is over the top. stay with the facts as you claimed yourself
And another thing is screaming WHIPE THE ASSES OF THE MUSLIM BASTARDS better than burning flags?...Did you really kick Bin Ladens ass? I guess that guy is still having a good time....as is Saddam in court.
What happened on 9/11 was surely a tragedy, but what about the thousands of Iraquis, Afghans and others being killed ......oh but all those are terrorists. Sorry I got it now....The kids and women died through american bombings were terrorist in the making, better to get rid of them rright away as it would be too expensive to return in a few years.

PS: And I know what you mean....sometime the inner pressure lets one say or write faster than expected and things could be understood in the wrong way

 

[Jagger69]

Although I abhor the escalation in violence that the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah represents, I feel that the recent actions to provoke Israel were perpetrated to test their resolve in the aftermath of Sharon's disability and the ensuing interim government headed by acting PM Ohmert. I think they are getting their answer.

 

[CeBeSprTNG2005]

I agree to that Jagger69 ....The Kidnappings were a test to see how far Israel would go and they just did what was planned
But that doesn´t change my mind about what is happening

 

[Calm]

I didn't mean to scare you away. Same deal for me. I get too into it. Don't stop debating because of anything I said. Your opinions are as valuable as anyone else's.

I do it for my own health, these stuff sometimes really get to me.


Since you all brought up USA and 9/11...
After 9/11 USA bombed the shit out of Aghanistan in search for one man, I don't exactly know how many they killed but I'm sure it was more than enough.

USA is by far more strong and advanced than any country in the world but when they bombed Aghanistan they were justified since they were the target of terrorist activity.
In the past few years way more people died from terrorism (directly or indirectly) in the middle east yet those self-righteous pacifists dare to tell people what to do; the UN is a waste and should be shut down.

Ahhh... there you said it. They were GIVEN the land... but by whom? By god, perhaps? By allah? By Moses?

No, wait... it was the modern-day deity, the new religion... the western powers... USA... England... the map-makers, the colonizers...
.

It's not like that.
Jews have populated this land since the late 1800's and they have been fighting with arabs over this land for over 100 years.
When the British mandate left they gave Israel independence but that doesnt mean it was one big party, right after the annoucement war started here and it's never stopped since.
So yes, the western powers GAVE Israel independence but they earned the right to keep it.

Less than a year ago Israel gave Palestine a piece of land, by the way.

P.S.
Moses isn't idolized in Judaism as much as Jesus or Mohammad are, they dont idolize people since only God has that status.

 

[georges]

In the past few years way more people died from terrorism (directly or indirectly) in the middle east yet those self-righteous pacifists dare to tell people what to do; the UN is a waste and should be shut down.

absolute true and this what the UN is today a joke http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/un-annan.jpg

 

[hily]

Ahhh... there you said it. They were GIVEN the land... but by whom? By god, perhaps? By allah? By Moses?

No, wait... it was the modern-day deity, the new religion... the western powers... USA... England... the map-makers, the colonizers...

British didnt even want the Jews to immigrate to Israel! They turned any ships they caught around until 1948, when they left. There were many more British fightin with the Arabs than the Jews. In fact, there was a law made that British couldnt even buy food from the Jews. The US was the first I believe to recognize Israel's statehood and they got there 3 B17s from the US black market, outside of that... they didnt really support Israel at the time.

A population that yells allah akhbar, who was and is happy with 9/11.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about? The vast majority of the Muslim world would never have wished 911 on anyone, nor would they have celebrated. Your right wing media was probably more than happy to show you a few crowds cheering and say - in a blanket statement about any entire region, just like your blanket statement - "the Middle East was cheering today as Americans died"...

Bullshit! They're as human as you or I: most Middle Easterners don't want to see American civillians dead any more than you do... and most of them have family or friends living in America.

A minority yells those words, burns flags, cheers the deaths of others. So what, are you going to yell back, cheer their deaths in return? Then you are no better than that minority, if you cheer you are the same. It doesn't matter who started the fight only that the killing STOPS. It takes two sides to fight a battle. Both sides must stop but that can't happen until one side stops, like any argument or fight.

Part of the reason people think that that is what happens is because that is was the news shows us. They now show us that Iraqis don't want us there to help, they make them seem ungrateful, when Ive heard soldiers THERE saying thats far from the truth.

 

[Calm]

Part of the reason people think that that is what happens is because that is was the news shows us. They now show us that Iraqis don't want us there to help, they make them seem ungrateful, when Ive heard soldiers THERE saying thats far from the truth.

The News seem to have the wrong idea that they are broadcasting entertainment and every news channel is fighting for ratings; they show us what we want to see and try to make things worse so they would always have something juicy to tell us about.