Israel: Neo-Nazi in the making?

[Peter Gazinya]

This is what I'm talking about. I swear all they do is play the victim. It would be nice if they would stop pawning the blame off completely against us everytime shit doesn't go their way. They don't need to kick-ass at all... they need to exit the 10th century first off, and join the rest of the world. Then they need to take some responsibilty for a lot of the bullshit that happens to them, stop oppressing their people, build their economies, build their governments, and STOP being that freakin victim!

A-FUCKING-MEN brother. The definition of insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different results. The whole area seems to be dragged down by some fucking goddamned book that focuses their efforts on never progressing one damned bit in this world. While the majority of the world has progressed quite impressively, this region is stuck shooting and bombing each other. Just like 100 years ago and probably 100 years from now.

The story is so fucking old at this point.

I was scared all weekend that Iran or somebody was going to fire a neuclear weapon.

Oh come on dude! You owe yourself better than that.

 

[hily]

What you call terrorist I call freedom fighter. In my mind the Palestinians are the native people to Israel, and are doing what any indigenous people would do; fight tooth and nail, to the bitter end. Israel will win, but at the cost of a genocide.

all terrorists are freedom fighters?
Idk most are yes, but to me Basayev and bin laden could never be heroic.

 

[sonny forelli]

What you call terrorist I call freedom fighter. In my mind the Palestinians are the native people to Israel, and are doing what any indigenous people would do; fight tooth and nail, to the bitter end. Israel will win, but at the cost of a genocide.

does give them the right to kill innocent people? they aren`t freedom fighters they are scum they don`t do there cause any good by blowing women and childen up :dunno:

 

[epic]

as an individual living in middle east (but thanks god, far away from terror), i'd say many things about this topic but it seems that ********** has already answered everything.. i really appreciate your point of view fox! :thumbsup:

"What's So Funny 'Bout Peace, Love, and Understanding"

btw, i'm not muslim..

 

[Calm]

as an individual living in middle east (but thanks god, far away from terror), i'd say many things about this topic but it seems that ********** has already answered everything.. i really appreciate your point of view fox! :thumbsup:

"What's So Funny 'Bout Peace, Love, and Understanding"

btw, i'm not muslim..

No offense but living in Turkey and saying you live in the middle east is like living in Miami and saying you live in the south.

 

[epic]

No offense but living in Turkey and saying you live in the middle east is like living in Miami and saying you live in the south.

I don't and can't say i'm living in the "action zone" of middle east but Turkey is considered clearly as a middle eastern country.. and i should have some ideas as i'm living in a muslim country.. let's say i'm living on the edge of the region.. what's wrong about it either :dunno:

 

[georges]

1)I don't think bombing innocents is ever, ever justified. I accept that the west wanted revenge... but killing innocent Afghans along the way made us no better than Al Quaeda.

2)Those self-righteous pacifists don't condone any killing. They hate when innocents are killed by Islamic terrorists. But they hate, just as much, no more, no less, when innocents are killed by anti-terrorist retribution, revenge, etc...

3)Israel had a few men kidnapped. That sucks. But that never, ever, ever justifies bombing innocent Lebanese civillians and EVEN IF someone was so caught up in the war that they believed it was justified, they should have held back from bombing anyone, because each act of violence will only ever be followed up by another one in return. It will not end, until someone stops. When each side waits for the other to give in, people keep dying, and dying, and dying.

4)The UN needs to be re-organized but it is vital to peace in this world. Debating and diplomacy are the only way to avoid war and the UN facilitates global diplomacy. It needs to be given more power, manpower, money, etc, in order to protect the world from those that are not willing to follow the diplomatic channels it promotes.

5)And as for the self-righteous pacifists telling people what to do, they are really only telling you one thing, which somewhere deep down most of us believe in anyway: thou shalt not kill. Whether religious or not, none of us have the right to kill innocents no matter what the reason - and neither should our governments. If Israel had been directly bombed by Lebanon... this response would have been inevitable. But it wasn't. A few men were kidnapped. This can't possibly be a response to the kidnappings, but to an accumulation of attack after attack on Israelis. That is why the UN is vital and must be given more power, so it can stop these terrorists, and penalize - severely - any countries which support them.

6)That is why, again, I blame the US, for destabilizing the UN and taking so much of its power and respectability away through their own ignorance of UN policies and resolutions, and through a campaign to discredit the UN's validity.

7)Thanks for the information about Israel. I know the Jews have a right to that land as much as anyone else does, especially today, I just wish people didn't have to die over land. You don't have any land once you're dead.

1)Israel was and is essentially bombing hezbollah hq and places where are stocked kassam rockets. Did you have forgotten the USS Cole Bombing, the Madrid, London and 9/11 attacks? I didn't and it is not by coming to terrorists with peaceful talks you will have a solution, you have to kill terrorists so you can be sure to have peace.
2)OK
3)Israel is daily bombed with rockets by the hamas and the hezbollah and have victims and soldiers killed everyday, I am sorry but they have the whole right to hit their ennemies as strongly as possible. The war will end when the hamas, hezbollah and all their leaders and all their members will be killed and that these groups will be disarmed and their political representatives uneligible.
4)The UN was and is still shit. It did nothing for Israel in 1976 where one plane of the Sabena was highkjacked, Israel had to rely on itself go to Entebbe and free the hostages (during this operation colonel Jeonathan Nataniyahu was killed), it also has given a noble prize to Arafat which was the worst thing to do and there are other mistakes made by the UN that I can quote. UN military force is a joke see how it failed in Lebanon in 1982, in Somalia in 1993 and in Bosnia in 1999 and the diplomatic ways of the UN were against war in Iraq, war in Afghanistan as well as operations made by Israel against terrorism showed who it was. A worthless organization.
5)The UN did nothing to penalize countries supporting terrorism and Israel has the whole rights to wreck the shit out of coutries supporting terrorism and attacking it all the time.
6)I prefer the US to Kofi Annan and his crew
7)When your citizens are attacked, you are in the whole right to lead operations which have a target to kill all terrorists and wreck the shit out of their hq.

 

[Iamforever]

im sorry ahead of time for what i am about to say. but i dont care what this thread is about. i see or hear that word, and i just argue. to say the least. im not jewish, i am white. but if i ever see a nazi, i will throw them a beating. i already know that next to none here are nazis. so, i probably will not get an arguement. good thing. dont want to get banned over nazis. one final word: to all you "nazis" get a life. hitler is dead. it is over. its as simple as that.

 

[Calm]

I don't think bombing innocents is ever, ever justified. I accept that the west wanted revenge... but killing innocent Afghans along the way made us no better than Al Quaeda.



Those self-righteous pacifists don't condone any killing. They hate when innocents are killed by Islamic terrorists. But they hate, just as much, no more, no less, when innocents are killed by anti-terrorist retribution, revenge, etc...

Israel had a few men kidnapped. That sucks. But that never, ever, ever justifies bombing innocent Lebanese civillians and EVEN IF someone was so caught up in the war that they believed it was justified, they should have held back from bombing anyone, because each act of violence will only ever be followed up by another one in return. It will not end, until someone stops. When each side waits for the other to give in, people keep dying, and dying, and dying.

The UN needs to be re-organized but it is vital to peace in this world. Debating and diplomacy are the only way to avoid war and the UN facilitates global diplomacy. It needs to be given more power, manpower, money, etc, in order to protect the world from those that are not willing to follow the diplomatic channels it promotes.

And as for the self-righteous pacifists telling people what to do, they are really only telling you one thing, which somewhere deep down most of us believe in anyway: thou shalt not kill. Whether religious or not, none of us have the right to kill innocents no matter what the reason - and neither should our governments. If Israel had been directly bombed by Lebanon... this response would have been inevitable. But it wasn't. A few men were kidnapped. This can't possibly be a response to the kidnappings, but to an accumulation of attack after attack on Israelis. That is why the UN is vital and must be given more power, so it can stop these terrorists, and penalize - severely - any countries which support them.

That is why, again, I blame the US, for destabilizing the UN and taking so much of its power and respectability away through their own ignorance of UN policies and resolutions, and through a campaign to discredit the UN's validity.

Thanks for the information about Israel. I know the Jews have a right to that land as much as anyone else does, especially today, I just wish people didn't have to die over land. You don't have any land once you're dead.

Had a few soldiers kindapped... you make it sound so simple and trivial like its only a few soldiers.

Those few soldiers were kidnapped by a certain group that is hiding in Lebanon territory, the Israeli government is pressured by its citizens and families of those kidnapped and killed to retaliate, they want their country who is supposed to be protecting them and the country that took away their son to war to do something to bring their son home safely. The thought that your kid/brother/friends is being held hostage and possibly tortured is terrifying.
If you were the Prime Minister of Israel and you were in that situation, what would you do? would you take your time and try to talk and reason with them? a strategy that failed for the past 100 years?
I see alot of people who say "just talk and dont kill" or "what the hell is wrong with the middle east just make peace" as if it were simple as that.


back in 1982, when Israel was in war with Lebanon, a certian soldier called Ron Arad was kidnapped/went MIA. Until this very day no one knows whether he is dead or still alive in captivity, but for that one soldier Israel went on many missions to try and bring him back, why? because even one person matters and is worth going to war for; the people need to know someone is protecting them.
To this very day there are rumors of people who have seen Ron Arad and they say they repeatedly break his arms and legs so he can't escape and they cut off his tongue so he wouldn't be able to give any information (seems made up since he can write but whatever). That's what's in store for those few soldiers unless Israel do something to get them back.

 

[lordvader1]

Kidnapping is horrendous. It is awful. Those men may be dead. But bombing civilians is worse. And nothing... nothing... NOTHING is worth going to war over... not the kidnapping of a few, not the constant terrorism, and not even 911, if you ask me. I believe that war is never, ever, ever the answer, and nations should be heavily pressured by other means by the global community so that they cannot support themselves if they are sponsoring terrorism etc... and I think war should only be a multilateral, global community effort, and only as a last resort, and only waged against military and armed forces, never against civilians, never in major cities.


QUOTE]
So 9/11 isn't worth going to war over? Jesus Christ you never cease to amaze me! What would you have done? Just stuck out your index finger and waved it at Al queda and said "naughty, naughty" and then turned away!!! Did you see 9/11 first hand? Probably not since your English, or Iranian or whatever else you claim to be. Well I did see first hand and it burns in my memory every single day. Your comments insult me to highest level but since your not an American you probably don't give a shit. You're probably one of those people who said "Yeah they got what they deserved."

Let me point one more thing out to you about what's worth going to war over. Let's say we did nothing after a little day called December 7 1942, just let it go and wuss out. I'd say at least a 1/3 or 1/2 of this country would be speaking Japanese right now. That's a fact Jack, the Japanese were very capable of invading us and moving in to at least Denver possibly Chicago.

Since your not an American you can't understand the honor and glory our grandparents must of had in routing the Pacific of a real global threat and winning the freedom for millions. But we're so bad right?

1 more thing too, if it wasn't for the US invading Europe and ridding the world of Adolf Hitler this discussion wouldn't even be on the board. Why? Because what is now Europe would be a giant Germany and Israel wouldn't even exist because all the Jews would be DEAD!!! You should be on your hands and knees and paying homage to the United States of America for making the world the way it is today. But nooooo, we fire a few rockets at a mosque where suspected terrorists linger, kill a kid or two in the aftermath and we're war mongoring brutes that have zero respect for human rights correct?

 

[niptuck]

1 more thing too, if it wasn't for the US invading Europe and ridding the world of Adolf Hitler this discussion wouldn't even be on the board.

Ahmm... The US forces technically did not invade Europe, they landed there

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

1 more thing too, if it wasn't for the US invading Europe and ridding the world of Adolf Hitler this discussion wouldn't even be on the board. Why? Because what is now Europe would be a giant Germany and Israel wouldn't even exist because all the Jews would be DEAD!!! You should be on your hands and knees and paying homage to the United States of America for making the world the way it is today. But nooooo, we fire a few rockets at a mosque where suspected terrorists linger, kill a kid or two in the aftermath and we're war mongoring brutes that have zero respect for human rights correct?

A little correction Sir. Germany was defeated when russians surrounded Berlin & Hitler commited suicide inside a bunker wilth her newly married wife Eva Brown. At that time British, American joint forces were reaching Germany after they landed in France. So, without any technicality, actually Germans were defeated by Russians and the contribution of the British & american forces can't be ruled out. That was in May.

On Aug 8th USA bombed Hiroshima & then later on Nagasaki. Then Japan surrendered. After that, is History. Its simple and we should keep that simple history in mind.

dd

We're not the only ones who can destroy the world with nuclear weapons. The world is by no means free.

Thank you Lord. I wanted to say precisely the same thing. It would have been slavery for the entire world, if, Nuclear power remained only in one hand.
pd

 

[lordvader1]

Ahmm... The US forces technically did not invade Europe, they landed there

What's the difference? We landed there to do what, sunbathe? Both of you are missing the point. The point is that going to war is a necessary thing sometimes. If it wasn't for the Americans in Europe and weakening Hitler's forces the Russians never would have made it to Berlin. Yes the vicotry in Europe was a joint effort but we did more then our fair share. You speak of the bomb, yes that's what happened I never denied that but what you misread was if we did nothing after Pearl Harbor the U.S. would never have been able to drop the weapons. We would have been fighting the Pacific part of WWII on our own soil. Don't claim to think I know nothing about history.

 

[pussypoppa]

Its funny how most of you are ignorant about the eastern world, and how the blame always points to the "muslims". The way you imply all arabs to be terrorists also shows ignorance and pure stupidity.

If you want to know about the real arabic world, stop sitting on your ass watching the TV and see what it is really like.

 

[lordvader1]

Its funny how most of you are ignorant about the eastern world, and how the blame always points to the "muslims". The way you imply all arabs to be terrorists also shows ignorance and pure stupidity.

If you want to know about the real arabic world, stop sitting on your ass watching the TV and see what it is really like.

Supply me with enough guns n ammo to make Rambo jealous and I'll take you up on that offer. I'll need it to defend myself. Next tell me where it's safe for an American to over there and I'll call my travel agent.

 

[D-rock]

Has anybody ever heard the saying that if 99.95% of the world was pacifistic they would be dominated by the other .05% of the world. Nagotiation is nice, pacificism is nice, but in the end there comes a time where the delaying and the talking most stop and action must be taken. Where Zen ends ass kicking begins. Nagotiation hasn't worked in millenia in the Middle East. Sooner or later you have to realize that by going and trying to talk about things to people that have never have any real intentions of changing and probably will never want to change is going to solve nothing, while allowing more of your people to be killed. The people that want to always sit around and talk about it or hide in a corner and hope everyting will get better are the ones that will always be subjegated by the ones trying to force them to their will. Anybody that just wants to talk about it or do nothing forever in the hope that it will get better is doing nothing condeming themselves to get hurt by others. This is comming from somebody who considers himself an big idealist, but there comes a time when you must realize that there is a difference between idealism and foolishness.

I don't buy the argument that with Islam and Muslems it is just a few bad apples spoiling the bunch. If you add in all the people that are terrorist, that help the terrorist, that overtly or covertly side with the terrorist, or maybe most of all that do nothing and look the other way as the corrupt goverments and terroist groups do what they want as they supposedly bring about a bad perception of their religion to the rest of the world it would come to be a majority of them. No other major religious group seems to have this problem, not in the last couple hundred years anyhow. So a lot of those people are scared and think they might be killed if they go against their government or the terrorist groups...that's TO FUCKING BAD FOR THEM. Freedom isn't free. A lot of people would die, but you can either choose to not be scared anymore and make a better future or you can hide in a corner and hope everyting gets better, all the while you can complain when your people inadvertantly get killed when others have to defend themselves from the people you turn a blind eye to. Sometimes I have to wonder, are the terrorist the only people over there with the balls to actually do something. I find that pretty sad.

Part of the reason they are still stuck in the Stone Age is because of their religion. Where others have had their rennisaince and other things where they have grown the abiltiy to look past their own religion, there is still one major religious group that can never seem to get past their own creed. Of course they like to blame other people for all of their predictaments, when much of what has happened to them has been their own fault. You would have to think after a while they would say to themselves, "Hmm, you know the Buddist don't have a terrorist problem, and the Hindus don't have a terrorist problem, and the Christians don't have a problem, and the Jews don't have a problem, maybe just maybe instead of finding excuses and blaming everbody except ourselves we should except the possibility we have a problem and try to change ourselves for the better".

 

[pussypoppa]

Supply me with enough guns n ammo to make Rambo jealous and I'll take you up on that offer. I'll need it to defend myself. Next tell me where it's safe for an American to over there and I'll call my travel agent.

The only reason you gonna guns is because your own goverment has trained these people in combat, yes it was because it was for them to defend themselves against Russia, but remember this, there is no such thing as a free meal

...And to anyone who mock the arabic/muslim law and government, just compare the crime rates such as rape and murder to those with the western world, and tell me which government is better....

 

[voufi]

I don't have anything against the Jews,but from what i know from history, Jews were driven away from what is now known as Israel by the Romans at the 2nd century and never lived there again until 1946. For nearly 2000 years this place was inhabbited by the Palaistinians. At 1946 Jews from all over the world but mainly from Europe just went there and with the blessings of U.S they just called that place their own, given by God to them. Does that make any sense to you?
It's like we Greeks go over to Egypt or Iran and say that their land is ours because Alexander conquered them 2500 years ago.
So in my opinion Palaistinians have some point in their claims but they use a bad way to expres them.
Back to present now. From what i understand Israel attacked Hesbollah wich is located in the territory of Libanon, and hesbollah striked back. What i can't understand is what is the government of Lebanon doing?
I mean there is someone that bombs your airfields, your ports, your bridges kills your people and you just watch them? Because not all the dead are Hesbollah personnel, many innocent Lebanon men and women died already.
I just don't get it.
And one last think. Who appointed the U.S as the global police officer?

 

[KittyKat]

I don't have anything against the Jews,but from what i know from history, Jews were driven away from what is now known as Israel by the Romans at the 2nd century and never lived there again until 1946. For nearly 2000 years this place was inhabbited by the Palaistinians. At 1946 Jews from all over the world but mainly from Europe just went there and with the blessings of U.S they just called that place their own, given by God to them. Does that make any sense to you?

What you call terrorist I call freedom fighter. In my mind the Palestinians are the native people to Israel, and are doing what any indigenous people would do; fight tooth and nail, to the bitter end. Israel will win, but at the cost of a genocide.

From what I understand, the Israelites and the Philistines (descendents of modern day Palestinians) arrived in the area that is now Israel, at pretty much the same time.

Yes, the Jews were driven out, but they have as much right to that land as the Palestinians.

 

[Calm]

1.
I don't have anything against the Jews,but from what i know from history, Jews were driven away from what is now known as Israel by the Romans at the 2nd century and never lived there again until 1946. For nearly 2000 years this place was inhabbited by the Palaistinians. At 1946 Jews from all over the world but mainly from Europe just went there and with the blessings of U.S they just called that place their own, given by God to them. Does that make any sense to you?


2. Back to present now. From what i understand Israel attacked Hesbollah wich is located in the territory of Libanon, and hesbollah striked back. What i can't understand is what is the government of Lebanon doing?
I mean there is someone that bombs your airfields, your ports, your bridges kills your people and you just watch them? Because not all the dead are Hesbollah personnel, many innocent Lebanon men and women died already.
I just don't get it.
And one last think. Who appointed the U.S as the global police officer?

1. It's partialy true. Jews started inhabbiting Israel in the late 1890's; after WWII they were in Israel, along with the arabs (not Palestinians) under a British mandate and in 1948 they got their independence.
That's besides the point. You are thinking about Jews, whereas I'm thinking about Israelis.
The Jews believe Israel is the promised land given to them by God. However, they believe they should remain in exile until God send a new Messiah to save them and bring them back to the promised land.
Opposed to religious Jews, whom some are pro or con to the idea of Israel, Israel is ran by Israelis, not Jews. They believe that Israel belongs to them since they conquered it in war.

2. If I were the Lebanese government I'd do something to drive Hizbollah outside of my damn country. Why should I be dragged into war because of a group of terrorists who hide in my territory?
Lebanon got caught in the middle of this. With proper managemnt they could team up with Israel and drive the terrorists away, rather than fight Israel and go to war because of something they had absolutely nothing to do with.


I wanna let you guys in on a little secret, this war isn't new, nothing has changed from 2 years ago except the fighting is up north rather than down south and that the war is getting more coverage. Even before this thing has started EVERY DAY people died from both sides. The war has been going on for years and has started way before Lebanon got caught up in the middle of this. Lebanon had the least fatalities of all in this war.

From what I understand, the Israelites and the Philistines (descendents of modern day Palestinians) arrived in the area that is now Israel, at pretty much the same time.

Yes, the Jews were driven out, but they have as much right to that land as the Palestinians.

That's true but the Philistines lived in Gaza and Israel were in what we call Israel now, so if we were to give away land based on that everything would remain the same except Israel would rule the western part of Jordan.