Trump : Jerusalem is the capital city of Israel. The US Embassy will be moved from Tel Aviv

[meesterperfect]

So much for his fantasy that HE would be the president who would finally broker a peace in the middle east. He boasted mightily about being the right person, with the right skill set, for the job.
This sure as fuck isn't going to forward that agenda.
My family members in Israel are appalled. They can't believe the recklessness of this move.
Other than right wing Israelis, I don't think anybody else in the entire region thinks this is a good idea, including Trump's new BFFs the Saudis.

Interesting.
Do you think Trump just went rogue and did this on his own or he just taking orders or being influenced by an unnamed entity?

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

The fuck I do. "Palestine" historically refers to the land of Israel. The Romans called the Jews living there Palestinians in order to dehumanize them and separate them from their heritage. "Palestinians" today are of Syrian, Lebanese, Egyptian and Jordanian heritage. Those squatting fucks adopted the name "Palestinian" in order to fuck with Israel. Arafat admitted it. And that cocksucker was born in Cairo. Nothing they've ever done since appropriating that identity has been productive, or righteous. If Hamas and the rest of those cockchuggers laid down their arms there would be peace in the region. If the Israelis laid down their arms, there'd be no Israel.

 

[Johan]

Interesting.
Do you think Trump just went rogue and did this on his own or he just taking orders or being influenced by an unnamed entity?

You need to understand something : Donald Trump doesn't care about the opinion of anyone but Donald Trump. He thinks he's "like a smart person". He thinks himself as the best at everything he does. He thinks he can easily solve problems that experts have been trying to solves for years.

According to The Time of Israel, Rex Tillerson, James Mattis and Mike Pompeo all tried to prevent Trump from doing so while Jason Greenblatt and Jared Kushner tried to delay the move. Trump didn't listen to any of them and still did it, because he thinks himself more intelligent than these 5 people combined
https://www.timesofisrael.com/state...s-all-opposed-jerusalem-declaration-cnn-says/

 

[Johan]

Fuck "Palestine."

You do realise that angry palestinians and palestinian sympathisers is the kind of thing that could draw public opinion in moderate muslim countries towards radical islam instead of supporting a government who works with the US government, the kind of things that upset King Abdullah of Jordan because it destabilises his country, it bolsters his radical muslim, anti-american, anti-Israel oppponents, do you ?

 

[pool_hustler]

Interesting.
Do you think Trump just went rogue and did this on his own or he just taking orders or being influenced by an unnamed entity?

As Johan mentioned even his Secretaries of Defense and State advised against (among many others).
It creates a full blown powder keg.
This is the sort of complex decision that should be settled at the end of serious peace negotiations. Instead it pretty much puts the brakes to this administration ever being a trusted participant in any future negotiations.
But the evangelicals who make up his base are all for it. Those loons are probably thrilled he may have helped speed up their "rapture" date

Meanwhile this is EXACTLY the sort of thing ISIS and their ilk wanted and needed. They've been heavily degraded but we just handed them a spectacular recruiting tool.
Well done D.T., you stupid cunt :glugglug:

 

[pool_hustler]

Trump did stress that the decision would have no impact on the boundaries of future Israeli and Palestinian states as negotiated under a final status agreement. That "sounds" good, but why should he be trusted in that regard after this? This wasn't part of a negotiation, it was Trump straight up dictating. Plus he's waffled all over the place over a 2 state solution, and any trust in him as a chief negotiator has just been demolished.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

"After more than two decades of waivers, we are no closer to a lasting peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. It would be folly to assume that repeating the exact same formula would now produce a different or better result.
-Trump"

I must be missing something 'cause that's exactly what he's doing: repeating the same formula by giving this one-sided support to Israel, pissing off the Palestinians, pissing off an international community both enemies and allies, antagonazing international efforts and destroying any policy of a two-state solution.
Just to to fulfill another campaign promise...

[...] And for the palestinians, i.e., the arabs living in Judea and Samaria, a recognized capital is not what they will day of rage over and kill people for, but as always, because there's an Israel to begin with. [...]

More or less. But don't forget Jerusalem has holy sites that are significant for both Jews and muslims, and Jerusalem is very important for both Israelis and Palestinians as capital. For peace talks a division of Jerusalem with some shared sites is a must and declaring Jerusalem capital just for Israel is asking for violence. Israel considers Jerusalem as an eternal and indivisible city/capital, so I suppose Trump could 'save' the issue by saying the division of Jerusalem is still on the negotiation table.

Yes, the underlying issue (Israel existing) hasn't been resolved. That is the underlying issue. It's not the diplomatic status of Jerusalem in regards to the U.S. In 2005, Israel withdrew all jewish settlements (i.e., people from their homes who had lived there for generations) from Gaza and what did that get them? A slew of rocket attacks from Gaza as well as tunnel smuggling and incursions by arab murder squads on jewish families. [...]

They withdrew the settlements from Gaza but rebuild them (and MORE) on the Westbank. If people where squatting your house and they just moved from the bed room to your living room, you would still be pissed off as well. You might argue that these people lived their for generations as a pity argument, but the same reasoning can be applied for Palestinians. After all it's occupied territory. The Palestinians need to stop with the incursions but Israelis need to stop there harassment and violence too. It goes both ways.

 

[sean miguel]

I must be missing something 'cause that's exactly what he's doing: repeating the same formula by giving this one-sided support to Israel, pissing off the Palestinians, pissing off an international community both enemies and allies, antagonazing international efforts and destroying any policy of a two-state solution.
Just to to fulfill another campaign promise...





More or less. But don't forget Jerusalem has holy sites that are significant for both Jews and muslims, and Jerusalem is very important for both Israelis and Palestinians as capital. For peace talks a division of Jerusalem with some shared sites is a must and declaring Jerusalem capital just for Israel is asking for violence. Israel considers Jerusalem as an eternal and indivisible city/capital, so I suppose Trump could 'save' the issue by saying the division of Jerusalem is still on the negotiation table.



They withdrew the settlements from Gaza but rebuild them (and MORE) on the Westbank. If people where squatting your house and they just moved from the bed room to your living room, you would still be pissed off as well. You might argue that these people lived their for generations as a pity argument, but the same reasoning can be applied for Palestinians. After all it's occupied territory. The Palestinians need to stop with the incursions but Israelis need to stop there harassment and violence too. It goes both ways.

Whether "settlements" are being built in the West Bank, Israel's evacuation of Gaza would have resulted in the same - rocket barrages and arab hit squads using tunnels to kill jewish families in their sleep.
The U.S. hasn't had it's embassy Jerusalem until now. And up til now, how has THAT worked out in the "peace process?"

And it's disputed territory, not occupied.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

[...] And it's disputed territory, not occupied.

Explain disputed.

EDIT:

The U.S. hasn't had it's embassy Jerusalem until now. And up til now, how has THAT worked out in the "peace process?

Reread my post: "Repeating the same formula by giving this one-sided support to Israel, pissing off the Palestinians, pissing off an international community both enemies and allies, antagonazing international efforts and destroying any policy of a two-state solution."

 

[sean miguel]

Explain disputed.

It's a more precise description than "occupied." See the Kashmir region and the conflict over it between India and Pakistan. Where does the media label it an "occupation?"

The west bank was not a sovereign territory since the Ottoman Empire. There was a two-state solution in the 1947 Partition Plan which the jews agreed to and the arab world soundly rejected.

Reread my post: "Repeating the same formula by giving this one-sided support to Israel, pissing off the Palestinians, pissing off an international community both enemies and allies, antagonazing international efforts and destroying any policy of a two-state solution."

As per history, the "two-state solution" is a farce and at most a stepping stone for an arab final solution but they can't even control themselves to accomplish that.

1994's Oslo Accords essentially accomplished that, yet Yassir Arafat rejected it and instead launched the 2nd Intifada.

 

[HansMoleman]

I think Trump likes controversy. He likes to pick sides. He's not someone who can respect two different people's opinions. He likes to choose a side and he sticks to it. And he enjoys watching his side fight against the other. I don't think this is a Dem-Rep, Lib-Cons issue for him. You give him any two choices and he's going to pick the one he likes and sit back and enjoy while everyone goes nuts on both sides.

 

[sean miguel]

1994's Oslo Accords essentially accomplished that, yet Yassir Arafat rejected it and instead launched the 2nd Intifada.

Correction - it was the 2000 Camp David Summit.

 

[Supafly]

I am not looking at Trump's reasons for this action. Sponsor money, whatever.

This was overdue, and it is absolutely rigght to accept Jerusaem as what it is and always will be: Israels and the whole jewish religions capital.

Things could get settled different, if all parties involved would see it in a secular light, but let's not kid ourselves - this is the Holy Land, and the jews are by far the oldest people around, and centuries before the Quran was even dreamt of. And the Hamas and all other muslim groups have to first do one thing:

Accept, officially, and in writing, that Israel has an eternal right to exist, that jews have the eternal right to live there, and that they will cease all terrorism and warfare, and quit paying nice pensions for the families of bombers and namiong their streets after terrorists.

When or if THAT happens, we can talk. Until then, Israel has to walk their path to peace in their land by doing exactly what they are doing now. If the Palestinians want peace,they have to get rid of Hamas etc., and come clean about their activities tunneling and shooting rockets

 

[GodsEmbryo]

It's a more precise description than "occupied."

I think occupied is still the best description.

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
3 a : the act or process of taking possession of a place or area : seizure
3 b : the holding and control of an area by a foreign military force
3 c : the military force occupying a country or the policies carried out by it

From the Cambridge dictionary:
A situation in which an army or group of people moves into and takes control of a place

Israel regularly has a military presence within the area (although the Oslo Accords don't allow it) and has it under a military control by sea and air. Their navy performs a blockade at sea and there's the famous wall, both controlling what go's in and out. Power plants in the area are mostly destroyed or damaged due to the conflicts so Israel controls a lot of the power supplies (this includes water purification among things). The sea blockade obstructs the reconstruction of houses, industry, economy etc. So there is military control and it does influence the policies carried out by it.

There was a two-state solution in the 1947 Partition Plan which the jews agreed to and the arab world soundly rejected.

They sure do make a lot of stupid mistakes in that part of the world.

As per history, the "two-state solution" is a farce and at most a stepping stone for an arab final solution but they can't even control themselves to accomplish that.
1994's Oslo Accords essentially accomplished that, yet Yassir Arafat rejected it and instead launched the 2nd Intifada.

Arafat rejected shit and declared nothing, it's basically those scumbags from Hamas who fucked things up.

 

[sean miguel]

I think occupied is still the best description.

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
3 a : the act or process of taking possession of a place or area : seizure
3 b : the holding and control of an area by a foreign military force
3 c : the military force occupying a country or the policies carried out by it

you highlighted 3c. Exactly which country is Israel occupying in the West Bank?

Arafat rejected shit and declared nothing, it's basically those scumbags from Hamas who fucked things up.

That really is a shocking charge that Arafat was behind the second intifada considering he orchestrated the murder of the 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics.

Analysts have long debated the role of Yasir Arafat in the second intifada, the violent Palestinian uprising that followed on the failure of Camp David in 2000.

The PLO and Palestinian Authority (PA) have long denied that Arafat was behind the violence, instead calling the second intifada a spontaneous uprising. This claim was endorsed in the so-called Mitchell report, the "Sharm el-Sheikh Fact-Finding Committee" of 2001: "We have no basis on which to conclude that there was a deliberate plan by the PA to initiate a campaign of violence at the first opportunity...."

That story began to fall apart for good in 2010, when Hamas leader and co-founder Mahmoud al-Zahar stated that “President Arafat instructed Hamas to carry out a number of military operations in the heart of the Jewish state after he felt that his negotiations with the Israeli government then had failed."

Now there is an additional source: Arafat’s widow, Suha. In an interview in December on Dubai TV she said this:

Yasser Arafat had made a decision to launch the Intifada. Immediately after the failure of the Camp David [negotiations], I met him in Paris upon his return, in July 2001 [sic]. Camp David has failed, and he said to me: “You should remain in Paris.” I asked him why, and he said: “Because I am going to start an Intifada. They want me to betray the Palestinian cause. They want me to give up on our principles, and I will not do so. I do not want Zahwa’s friends in the future to say that Yasser Arafat abandoned the Palestinian cause and principles. I might be martyred, but I shall bequeath our historical heritage to Zahwa [Arafat’s daughter] and to the children of Palestine.

The debate over Arafat’s role should be over. Many Palestinian leaders have always understood it to be a phony, in any event. I recall a conversation about five years ago with one PA official, whom I asked whether he shared the fears expressed then in the press about a new intifada. No, he replied, because such things do not start spontaneously. The last one started when the Palestinian leadership decided to start it, but the current leadership is against violence--so there will be no intifada.

Let’s hope that remains true. But meanwhile, there should be no doubt about the origin of the second intifada: it happened when Yasir Arafat decided that more violence was useful to him. That case is closed.

https://www.cfr.org/blog/arafat-and-second-intifada

 

[xfire]

This is just another thing for anti-Trumpers to bitch about, I honestly don't get why it's such a big fucking deal. Don't get me wrong, I hate Trump as much as anyone and want his entire administration to go to prison, but damn, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[pornobh]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/health/did-trump-slur-his-speech-bn/index.html

I think Trump was drunk when he made that speech

 

[Straight Shooter]

When are you libtards going to stop with the fucking hysteria. It's like everything Trump does is immediately deemed the worst thing ever done in the history of the world. These diplomats have been to same thing for close to 50 years and nothing has changed when it comes to the peace process. So Trump is just shaking it up and trying something different. It's not that hard to understand. Will it work? I have no idea. But FFS can we at least give this a chance?

 

[sean miguel]

lol

and there's nothing to "give a chance" to.

this is simply a recognition of reality. And I'm sure our diplomatic staff are glad they no longer have to make the drive from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

 

[sean miguel]

The underlying issues have never been resolved. Just because one military won over another does not mean there is lasting peace in the region. Take for example North Korea vs South Korea, India vs Pakistan, Israel vs Palestine etc etc. even though we won the war in Afghanistan the Taliban still control over some of the parts. We won the Gulf war but there is still instability in the region….. and hence the suicide bombings, IEDs, al quida, Islamic state etc.


Being a stupid trigger happy meathead will not solve anything.

Or Germany and Japan.

And take ... for example North Korea vs. South Korea - that isn't an example of "one military winning over another" but a stalemate. Just shut the fuck up. Is your SJW sister in college feeding you these replies?