assault weapons ban!!

[meesterperfect]

Hypothetical questions:
If some nut threatens in all seriousness to kill me and/or my family.
Should I not have the Right or legal option to purchase a firearm asap. To protect us?
Question 2: I have decided to eat bear. I want to eat bear. Should I not have the right or legal option to purchase a firearm to huntand kill bear during bear season, and eat that day-licious bear meat.
Question 3:
I want to rob a Kwiki-Mart with a gun. Should I
a) go to the police first and apply for a firearms ID, wait the 6 months it usually takes to possibly get the permit.
then rob the kwiki-mart with that now, easily traced back to me gun .
b) buy a gun on the street illegally.
Oh and AFA, did you know luet.Colombo didnt carry a gun?

 

[meesterperfect]

Neither did this guy:
I will not carry a gun. I'll carry your books, I'll carry a torch, I'll carry a tune, I'll carry on, carry over, carry forward, Cary Grant, cash and carry, carry me back to Old Virginia, I'll even 'hari-kari' if you show me how, but I will not carry a gun! Hawkeye Pierce( Medic)

 

[futuresurfer]

OK I know my opinion doesn't mean much but a couple of points. Animal Porn and bomb making are NOT constitutional rights, Gun ownership is. The American people do not vote on Federal issues because as a whole they are to fucking stupid to make decisions like that. They are more worried about American Idol or what happened on desperate housewives or whatever it is they are into then about what really goes on in the world. There half hour of CNN (Commie News Network) doesn't keep you informed. That is why we vote people into office to make those decisions. I DO NOT KNOW WHY PEOPLE DO NOT GET THIS AMERICA IS NOT A DEMOCRACY IT IS A REPUBLIC There is a big difference. Finally they should not ban them in this of all countries because we were founded on a bunch of pissed of business men and good ol boys not taking shit from a country that has now banned guns. No wonder we revolted. I have love England but I would not want to live there. I love my country being a bunch of pissed off cowboys ready to fight, get drunk and shoot some shit up if we are unhappy. (Im only half joking about that)
Know your history our country has ALWAYS had its focus on money "Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Ring a bell anyone. If you read Common Sense then you will realize that Happiness = Land. Its a plain historical fact. We were told we should be allowed to make money buy land and if the Govt said no then it was our DUTY as citizens to over throw that govt. Sounds like a country that needs guns to work the way it was intended to when it was established.

 

[ninetysixcavy]

OK I know my opinion doesn't mean much but a couple of points. Animal Porn and bomb making are NOT constitutional rights, Gun ownership is. The American people do not vote on Federal issues because as a whole they are to fucking stupid to make decisions like that. They are more worried about American Idol or what happened on desperate housewives or whatever it is they are into then about what really goes on in the world. There half hour of CNN (Commie News Network) doesn't keep you informed. That is why we vote people into office to make those decisions. I DO NOT KNOW WHY PEOPLE DO NOT GET THIS AMERICA IS NOT A DEMOCRACY IT IS A REPUBLIC There is a big difference. Finally they should not ban them in this of all countries because we were founded on a bunch of pissed of business men and good ol boys not taking shit from a country that has now banned guns. No wonder we revolted. I have love England but I would not want to live there. I love my country being a bunch of pissed off cowboys ready to fight, get drunk and shoot some shit up if we are unhappy. (Im only half joking about that)
Know your history our country has ALWAYS had its focus on money "Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Ring a bell anyone. If you read Common Sense then you will realize that Happiness = Land. Its a plain historical fact. We were told we should be allowed to make money buy land and if the Govt said no then it was our DUTY as citizens to over throw that govt. Sounds like a country that needs guns to work the way it was intended to when it was established.

I love the ideals in this thread. :thumbsup: Good job folks...you understand what it's all about. Yes, there are some dumbass Americans...you're right, that's why we do not allow most of them to make decisions on the behalf of the intelligent ones. BTW, Thomas Paine's CS is a great read. One of my faves. :glugglug:

 

[DevinnLaneLover]

CNN = Commie News Network? Are you for real?

:rofl:

 

[Renegade1Oh]

This is good

"U.S. crime trends have been better than those in countries with restrictive firearms laws. Since 1991, with what HCI calls "weak gun laws" (Sarah Brady, "Our Country`s Claim to Shame," 5/5/97), the number of privately owned firearms has risen by perhaps 50 million. Americans bought 37 million new firearms in the 1993-1999 time frame alone. (BATF, Crime Gun Trace Reports, 1999, National Report, 11/00.) Meanwhile, America`s violent crime rate has decreased every year and is now at a 23- year low (FBI). In addition to Japan, other restrictive countries have experienced increases in crime"

"Germany -- Described in the Library of Congress report as "among the most stringent in Europe," Germany`s laws are almost as restrictive as those which HCI wants imposed in the U.S. Licenses are required to buy or own a firearm, and to get a license a German must prove his or her "need" and pass a government test. Different licenses are required for hunters, recreational shooters, and collectors. As is the case in Washington, D.C., it is illegal to have a gun ready for defensive use in your own home. Before being allowed to have a firearm for protection, a German must again prove "need." Yet the annual number of firearm-related murders in Germany rose 76% between 1992-1995. (Library of Congress, p. 69.) It should be noted, HCI goes further than the Germans, believing "there is no constitutional right to self-defense" (HCI Chair Sarah Brady, quoted in Tom Jackson, "Keeping the Battle Alive," Tampa Tribune, 10/21/93) and "the only reason for guns in civilian hands is sporting purposes" (HCI`s Center to Prevent Handgun Violence Director, Dennis Henigan, quoted in USA Today, 11/20/91)."

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=78

Real Good Find AFA!!! I forgot about HCI's Balony to post. Thank You :thumbsup:

 

[Renegade1Oh]

Know your history our country has ALWAYS had its focus on money "Life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" Ring a bell anyone. If you read Common Sense then you will realize that Happiness = Land. Its a plain historical fact. We were told we should be allowed to make money buy land and if the Govt said no then it was our DUTY as citizens to over throw that govt. Sounds like a country that needs guns to work the way it was intended to when it was established.

Very Good Post :thumbsup: In another thread I said that and was told "I'm Full Of Shit" and called a "Smug Bastard". Ain't it nice, I think I'm going to get a Glock22 in .40S&W and pick up a couple of High Cap. Mags also!!! Allready have the ammo.
:ak47:

 

[squallumz]

assault weapons banned? i sure fucking hope so. they are unnecessary and dangerous to the public in the wrong hands. simple.

 

[glk35]

assault weapons banned? i sure fucking hope so. they are unnecessary and dangerous to the public in the wrong hands. simple.

correct, in the wrong hands. but the wrong hands will get whatever they can afford regardless of the ban. all the ban does is stop legal people
"sportsmen, collectors" from having them. some times i dont think people think about that. again though the ban not only wants to make it harder for military style weapons also sporting weapons because of the feed capacity. as it is right now anything with a detachable magazine.

 

[D-rock]

Guns should be registered..just like cars, boats, property, etc. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If you're on the up and up I don't see why anyone would have anything to worry about.

And I doubt very much the American government would pull anything remotely close to what the Nazis did. The only thing I could see them doing is slapping a tax on gun owners (anything to make a buck of course).

Anyone who compares the American government to that of the Nazis needs to really pick up a history book.

(Sigh) Don't tell me yet another person that brings out the, "If you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about". That might rank up there as one of my most hated reasoning of all time. It's gotten to the point I almost feel like ripping my hair out every time somebody utters that. If that is the case we might as well throw out half the rights most civilized places have. After all why would be need protections against unreasonable search and seizure, or protection from self-incrimination by that way of thinking? The police could just tell you that right after they barge into your home with no reasonable cause because they don't like you. Why not just have a chip implanted someday into your brain that can see and hear everything you do and knows where you are. After all, "If you don't do anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Things like that were meant to protect the innocent from the abuse of state and to ensure the populace could always mount a resistance if needed, not to protect criminals, even thought it might help them more than an normal person. Why do you think part of our rights also entail being able to assemble with each other without the government knowing what's going on and to not have soldiers be keep in our home at peacetime.

Your thinking is a little short sighted. Things change in time. A lot of that time they change far quicker than anybody ever realizes. The world we live in today might not be the one we will live in 10, 20, 50, or a 100 years from now. It might not be the place our children and grandchildren grow up in. Assuming it will never happen is folly. That is why the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. If you get complacent you will loose it.

In any case for almost the entirety of human history, it's been filled with corruption, suffering, and they tyranny of people trying to control others. Nothing has changed. Thinking we could never fall into that pretty dumb. People and organizations always fall towards corruption with time. If you don't believe that YOUR the one that should pick up a history book. I have nothing less but the entire totality of human history and nature backing up my argument. I'm still amazed at people that continually refuse to learn from history. That brings me to another hated line of reasoning, the, "It will never happen to me/us" mentality some people have.

Registration makes about as much sense as registering your right to free speech or registering your right not be owned as a slave. I'm sorry, but I refuse to ask permission for my rights. I don’t consider them negotiable. It isn't something that my government gave to me. They are things that the people that founded this county believed people have had since the beginning of time to them given by nature and/or nature's God. That is just something that recognizes it's existance not creates them. It isn’t a gift they gave people because they were nice. Unlike self-defense, which was considered the first law of nature, owning a car or a boat isn't one of those.

Registration is also bad because it might one day become extremely important that the government doesn’t know who has arms and where they are. If it comes to fighting back against a tyrannical regime it will almost impossible if they can just go down the list and mark off people that are on it when they disarm them or eliminate them altogether. I know people that refuse to even sign up for the NRA or gun magazines for just that reason. They want to eliminate as much as possible that might draw attention to them. They’re not nuts, paranoid, or hateful either. They are completely sane, and to be honest a lot wiser than most people.

 

[Renegade1Oh]

Very good post D-Rock!!! Well said, all my firearms is allready registered, ya have to fill out that little yellow paper, before ya buy. I do have one that isn't, my grandfather gave it to me when I was little, a 32 rimfire rifle. It's so old it doesn't even have a serial number, VERY UNSAFE to fire. Yep, the U.S. Government allready knows what I have, which to me, totally SUCKS!!! But I did FOLLOW THE LAW, and did it the right way, according to OUR laws of the land. I just don't have to like it!

 

[Member2019]

Very good post D-Rock!!! Well said, all my firearms is allready registered, ya have to fill out that little yellow paper, before ya buy. I do have one that isn't, my grandfather gave it to me when I was little, a 32 rimfire rifle. It's so old it doesn't even have a serial number, VERY UNSAFE to fire. Yep, the U.S. Government allready knows what I have, which to me, totally SUCKS!!! But I did FOLLOW THE LAW, and did it the right way, according to OUR laws of the land. I just don't have to like it!

And there should be some underlying "fine print" on that piece of legislation that required registration ...

"The Second Amendment -- as written by the People of the United States a formal condition of the majority passage of the US Constitution by their State Representatives -- find itself violated by this lesser and submissive law to the US Constitution, the People are fully Entitled and have a Right to prevent confiscation of their arms by eliminating those who tend to violate their Right to Bear with the full protection of the Supreme Judicial who shall also rule this lesser and submissive law to the US Constitution does not grant the right to use such registrations as a means to locate and confiscate."

In other words ... "Attempt to use the registration to locate and take the gun away may result in that gun preventing you, and that counter-action will be fully protected by the Second Amendment, upheld by the US Constitution by the US Supreme Judicial."

 

[Member2019]

The US Constitution ... learn it, don't be ignorant of it!

The Facts ...
1. The First Ten Amendments to the US Constitution are the Bill of Rights
2. The majority of US states would not approve of the US Constitution until a "Bill of Rights" was drafted
3. The importance of each Article in the Bill of Rights is ascending towards #1
4. The ascending nature was to the liking -- no, demanding -- of the People and their elected State Representatives

The Law ...
A. The Articles of the US Constitution can NOT be overwritten (I mean "overridden," but the first term actually fits better IMHO) by any Legislature, Executive Act or Judicial Common Law.
B. The Articles of the US Constitution are NEITHER up to change by a majority vote of the Legislature NOR even a majority vote of the people
C. Any Article that changes or provides an addendum to the US Constitution begins with either a 2/3rds majority of both Federal Legislatures or approval by 2/3rds of all states.
D. And any such Article to the US Constitution must be approved by 3/4ths of all states! (which is must be the people of those states themselves as dictated in many US state Constitutions)

So why do some of us "whinny people" oh-so-wrongly "get upset" about losing "some" of those "oh, you don't need those" Rights that are guaranteed in the US Constitution over others?

Here's the counter-question ... if our Rights that are explicitly guaranteed in the US Constitution and "untouchable" as detailed above except and only except as explicitly dictated above -- are open for modification by a "simple majority" or some other "here's what I think works today" immigrant viewpoint who doesn't respect it ...

Why would I remain in this country that has preserved the greatest set of checks'n balances of any Democratic-Republic (let alone it was the first, major one) the world has every seen?

That entire, 220+ year history would be wiped out overnight, leading to greatly reduced freedoms and Rights because they would be "up for interpretation at any moment" by the majority.
No thank you! Some people not only need a basic American Civics lesson here, they should excuse themselves from voting because they are too fucking ignorant to vote.

God damn, it's not that I "want to teach," but God forbid some people are REALLY in need of a BASIC education on American Civics!
Sigh, I shouldn't even make this point, as if you're that ignorant, most people will see it, so I don't need to point it out.
And even if the majority of the people are also ignorant along with the same, ignorant people I'm bitching about, then our nation is already fucked, so I might as well not bother.

I guess I just believe I ain't going down with Ben & crew without a fight!

 

[Slitranger]

Nice to see you have so much respect for those people you're debating with.

I'm not hiding behind anything or imposing anything on anyone. I don't want any money for anything. I'm giving my opinion on a law. I don't make the decisions - I shouldn't. Neither should you. The only people that can make this decision are all the people, one person one vote. There should be a referendum on this and every other major issue, and the law sides with the majority decision.

Actually I have NO respect for those people I debate with, when they cram their "liberated" mindless nonsense down everyone's throat. All of which is based on "theory" as opposed to real world fact. I agree that there needs to be control on guns - but that is control by people who are responsible gun owners. Criminals and those that abuse the right to own guns should be held responsible completely - meaning that they don't get slapped on the wrists, they don't get to collect $200 on the way out the jail house doors. There needs to be harsher criminal codes for proven violations. But to just go out and downright say that people should not be allowed to purchase/own guns because of brand, style, or configuration is beyond stupid. I would assume that in your arguments for a total ban on guns because they are "more" lethal than any other guns, from those with your mind set - we look forward to seeing a ban on kitchen utensils that pose a greater risk of killing someone because of things like a sharper serrated edge on a bread knife or the length of a cleaver? Maybe you'd like to live in a jelly bean padded world where you can live off the millions of volts that power your electric cars use to make the environment more liveable because electricity isn't made in power plants, it's produced from the love of four leaf clovers grown by fairs from Narnia; and it will never rain on a day you have a picnic while Nancy Pelosi will be serving you and your life-partner lunch under the shade of a big oak tree, all the while Ted Kennedy does his best Dean Martin. Then when some Mexicali-gangbanger jumps the border and violates your loved ones, you can call the ACLU and have them send over their therapists to counsel the felon(s) before they sue you for violating their human rights because of some trumped up worker's abuse charges. You're right...I don't respect those debating this subject, because no matter how many times it gets argued - only one side makes sense in the true HUMAN form :thefinger , that being the side of why should law abiding citizens suffer because of incompetent lawmakers and criminals who are willing to do anything (including violating the law) to make life for those law abiding citizens more difficult! So :moon:

 

[meesterperfect]

Question 3:
I want to rob a Kwiki-Mart with a gun. Should I
a) go to the police first and apply for a firearms ID, wait the 6 months it usually takes to possibly get the permit.
then rob the kwiki-mart with that now, easily traced back to me gun .
b) buy a gun on the street illegally.


The reason I asked this was to demonstrate that if someone is going to commit a crime with a firearm, he sure isnt gonna go through the lengthy legal process to get one. He'll just get one illegally
Therefore, in a sense, doesnt that make most gun control laws useless?

 

[AFA]

OK I know my opinion doesn't mean much but a couple of points. Animal Porn and bomb making are NOT constitutional rights, Gun ownership is. The American people do not vote on Federal issues because as a whole they are to fucking stupid to make decisions like that. They are more worried about American Idol or what happened on desperate housewives or whatever it is they are into then about what really goes on in the world.

Sadly true. PBS Frontline just did a great 3 part series about news in America and how it's become more like the Entertainment industry now. Hot girls, short skirts, presenting watered down stories about Brittney or who cares who.



Watch on line, News War: Secrets, Soutces and Spins;
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/newswar/view/

 

[pathfinder]

Question 3:
I want to rob a Kwiki-Mart with a gun. Should I
a) go to the police first and apply for a firearms ID, wait the 6 months it usually takes to possibly get the permit.
then rob the kwiki-mart with that now, easily traced back to me gun .
b) buy a gun on the street illegally.


The reason I asked this was to demonstrate that if someone is going to commit a crime with a firearm, he sure isnt gonna go through the lengthy legal process to get one. He'll just get one illegally
Therefore, in a sense, doesnt that make most gun control laws useless?

I'm not even going to go back and read the crap between this post since the last time I said I was out... but I just wanted to make one comment...

option b) always seems as if you can just walk out your front door and find a guy selling illegal firearms... just like illegal drugs. I've lived in the DC Baltimore area for 6 years now. In that time I've never been asked if I wanted to buy either. and these are two of the top five highest murder rated cities in the republic. If the hype was as true as they make it seem about our streets being "flooded" with guns I'd have to beat people off with a stick trying to sell me a gun.

But I see your point. Funny thing is you can just go buy an Airsoft gun, paint the orange tip and you have a gun that looks and functions almost identically to a real gun.

 

[pathfinder]

Check out this video

 

[DevinnLaneLover]

(Sigh) Don't tell me yet another person that brings out the, "If you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about". That might rank up there as one of my most hated reasoning of all time. It's gotten to the point I almost feel like ripping my hair out every time somebody utters that. If that is the case we might as well throw out half the rights most civilized places have. After all why would be need protections against unreasonable search and seizure, or protection from self-incrimination by that way of thinking? The police could just tell you that right after they barge into your home with no reasonable cause because they don't like you. Why not just have a chip implanted someday into your brain that can see and hear everything you do and knows where you are. After all, "If you don't do anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Things like that were meant to protect the innocent from the abuse of state and to ensure the populace could always mount a resistance if needed, not to protect criminals, even thought it might help them more than an normal person. Why do you think part of our rights also entail being able to assemble with each other without the government knowing what's going on and to not have soldiers be keep in our home at peacetime.

Your thinking is a little short sighted. Things change in time. A lot of that time they change far quicker than anybody ever realizes. The world we live in today might not be the one we will live in 10, 20, 50, or a 100 years from now. It might not be the place our children and grandchildren grow up in. Assuming it will never happen is folly. That is why the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. If you get complacent you will loose it.

In any case for almost the entirety of human history, it's been filled with corruption, suffering, and they tyranny of people trying to control others. Nothing has changed. Thinking we could never fall into that pretty dumb. People and organizations always fall towards corruption with time. If you don't believe that YOUR the one that should pick up a history book. I have nothing less but the entire totality of human history and nature backing up my argument. I'm still amazed at people that continually refuse to learn from history. That brings me to another hated line of reasoning, the, "It will never happen to me/us" mentality some people have.

Registration makes about as much sense as registering your right to free speech or registering your right not be owned as a slave. I'm sorry, but I refuse to ask permission for my rights. I don’t consider them negotiable. It isn't something that my government gave to me. They are things that the people that founded this county believed people have had since the beginning of time to them given by nature and/or nature's God. That is just something that recognizes it's existance not creates them. It isn’t a gift they gave people because they were nice. Unlike self-defense, which was considered the first law of nature, owning a car or a boat isn't one of those.

Registration is also bad because it might one day become extremely important that the government doesn’t know who has arms and where they are. If it comes to fighting back against a tyrannical regime it will almost impossible if they can just go down the list and mark off people that are on it when they disarm them or eliminate them altogether. I know people that refuse to even sign up for the NRA or gun magazines for just that reason. They want to eliminate as much as possible that might draw attention to them. They’re not nuts, paranoid, or hateful either. They are completely sane, and to be honest a lot wiser than most people.

First I hope no one's getting the idea that I think gun owners are nuts, freaks, etc. I honestly don't think so. Some are, that's true, but you get those kinds of people in all walks of life. I do not like guns, and I would never own one but I do believe if that you want to own one then that's your right. To each their own.

However, because a gun is a weapon it becomes something "special". A gun is an instrument that can intimidate, maim, and kill. That's what its purpose is.

Because of the world we live in today and the crime that exists in it, I think guns should be registered for this very reason. Guns are used in crimes, and I want them to be easily tracked so we can get those who used them unlawfully, to be taken off the streets.

It's a case of the few ruining it for the many...as it always seems to go. It's like having car insurance; a lot of us will never need it, but because of some we all have to have it.

I know where you are coming from to a certain degree, but due to the nature of our world this is a necessary evil. It's a hassle, true, but until crime ceases to be it should be mandatory.

I don't understand why there is so much paranoia when it comes to some Americans and their own government. There is no way in hell that the US government would dare to recall the firearms of it's citizens. It would cause so much trouble that it wouldn't even be worth it for them to do it.

Look at how much trouble this idea of gun registration causes...can you imagine what it would be like if guns were seized???

People like to toss out the Nazi Regime idea like it's nothing. People should read about it and get to know about before they compare anything to it.

And like I said, and I will say forever more - if you are responsible with your firearms, registration shouldn't be a problem.

 

[AFA]

Check out this video

Good link! I enjoyed that very much. :jester: