Are you for abortion or against?

[Zolf J. Kimbly]

What about in cases of rape? You conveniently leave that out of your argument. Women CAN get pregnant when they are raped you know. Further, I believe you miss the analogy of a black man not being a slave any longer and a woman no longer being a slave to men, in that abortion provides, in a small way, women with the liberty to control their own bodies and destinies, and not be forced to be subservient to the will of men. Too often, sadly the "father" is nothing more than a sperm donor! He creates a problem, then bails, and it's the woman/mother who is left with the "problem"! Why shouldn't she have a major say in determining how best to deal with the situation? I don't see any of these anti-abortion people stepping up to the plate to offer to adopt these unwanted children! How would you propose to deal with all of additional unwanted children that would be brought into the world if abortion were illegal? Furthermore, don't you think, given the fact that many unwanted children would be born into a less than favorable environment, that the fetus would be better off being aborted in many cases? Yeah, bringing a child into a terrible situation is really looking out for the life of the unborn! Ha ha ha!

I'd like to know how people who claim to be totally anti-abortion, regardless of the circumstances, would feel if it was one of their female loved ones who was the subject of discussion. There are some who claim that they do not believe abortions should be allowed under any circumstances. I'd like to see how they would feel if one of their loved ones was gang raped by 10 of the biggest, dirtiest, you know whats that you ever saw! Yeah.....they'd support their loved one carrying that baby to term! Ha ha ha! It's very easy to preach and be self righteous when the subject matter doesn't affect you in any way! But, when you've walked a mile in those shoes...it's pretty damn funny how one's opinion changes!

For the record, I fully support the freedom of choice!

and you conviently left out the part i said that THERE WERE EXCEPTIONS

rape being one of them

and spare me da bullshit about women being slaves to men

if a woman hooks up with a guy she knows is a dirt bag thats her own fault for gettin pregnant by him

you knew he was no good when you fucked him

naivety is a bitch

you are right about one thing

i dont have to worry about this ever affecting me cause i have no sisters or daughters

so....:nanner:

1. If all of the women chose to keep their legs closed to avoid pregnancy, there would be very few guys out there getting laid.

2. Condoms break.

3. Seriously?

And how many times do people get pregnant when they're using protection? My best friend was married, and was using two forms of protection. Condom broke but she was like "well I'm on the pill for backup so no biggie". She winds up pregnant. Her and her husband did EVERYTHING right, but it still happened and they don't want kids at all, like ever. So she aborted, and he got a vasectomy to ensure pregnancy doesn't happen again. They're mature, responsible people who just simply didn't want children...they went and made sure they were protected and it still failed them. The world isn't so black and white...you can't assume that the only way to keep a girl from getting pregnant is for her to stop being sexually active or to use condoms.

So based on your thinking, if you want to avoid becoming a father, then you should:

1. Stop having sex

2. Use condoms 100% of the time (still not an intelligent option, condoms aren't reliable at all)

3. Go gay.

Do you live by those three terms? Didn't think so.

those are some very very rare examples

i have heard of it happening but they dont happen that much as to cause a panic

zolf has smashed hundreds of vaginas and has no baby yet

dont see a problem with my methods

which includes using a condom 100% of the time

also you gotta be kiddin about me going gay

i love pussy too much

zolf aint no fudge packer or peter puffer:2 cents:

 

[Jon S.]

and you conviently left out the part i said that THERE WERE EXCEPTIONS

rape being one of them

and spare me da bullshit about women being slaves to men

if a woman hooks up with a guy she knows is a dirt bag thats her own fault for gettin pregnant by him

you knew he was no good when you fucked him

naivety is a bitch

you are right about one thing

i dont have to worry about this ever affecting me cause i have no sisters or daughters :nanner:

1st, it would have been nice to mention the exceptions as opposed to "bundling" them in an apparent attempt to sluff them off. I mean, like most people, I'm not psychic. And, though You Might not have a sister or daughter...I take it you DO have a mother! Now, she might be past child bearing age...but, if she wasn't and "something" were to happen, I'm sure you would have a different opinion. However, I take it that you ALREADY support it in cases of rape...so that might already be covered anyway.

Do you presume to argue that condoms are fool proof...as evidenced that they always work for you? If so, that is a non sequitor! Condoms are better than nothing...but foolproof they are not!

Finally, what benefit to society...or to the unborn child...would forcing the mother to carry the baby to term be again? Fact is that far more white babies are aborted in this country than any other! I believe this irrational fear that the white man is destined to become a minority race in this country is a major driving force for the anti-abortion crowd than any other! I mean...how can one be stead fast against abortion...AND be against welfare at the same time? I mean, if we force women to have unwanted babies...society will be left holding the bag when it comes to support! Hell, in a lot of cases an abortion would be cheaper AND more humane for all concerned! Think about it...how the Hell is forcing a child to be brought up in a resentful and irresponsible household even remotely considered looking out for the well being of the unborn?

 

[sayvara]

My being an adult model bears no reflection on my skills and abillity to be a mother IMO.

Yeah but the point I was making here was that someone else thought your humble opinion wasn't worth the breath used to speak it. The point was that someone elses opnion about you and their perceived notions about you and your appropriateness as a mother were more important than your opinon and based on that chose to perform a severely invasive procedure on your body.

However, continually showing that you are unfit to carry and birth a child

That is your opinion... but your opinion doesn't hold enough weight to justify such an invasive action on someone else's body. Again, that would be like someone else saying "My opinion is that you are an unfit mother because you do adult modeling" before forcing you up on the operating table.

Sure maybe things might change in the future, but should innocent children continually be concieved and aborted, and government dollars be wasted on someone who is too stupid to keep on the pill or use rubbers?

If you cannot understand what a heinously invasive and medicly unethical procedure it is to forcibly and against their consent sterilize them... then I urge you to think twice before you call someone else stupid.

/S

 

[Jon S.]

Yeah but the point I was making here was that someone else thought your humble opinion wasn't worth the breath used to speak it. The point was that someone elses opnion about you and their perceived notions about you and your appropriateness as a mother were more important than your opinon and based on that chose to perform a severely invasive procedure on your body.



That is your opinion... but your opinion doesn't hold enough weight to justify such an invasive action on someone else's body. Again, that would be like someone else saying "My opinion is that you are an unfit mother because you do adult modeling" before forcing you up on the operating table.



If you cannot understand what a heinously invasive and medicly unethical procedure it is to forcibly and against their consent sterilize them... then I urge you to think twice before you call someone else stupid.

/S

I respectfully disagree on two counts! First, what someone does for a living has no bearing on one's ability to be a good mother...unlike a systematic pattern of behavior that is directly related to motherhood and one's inability to be responsible in said area. That's like comparing apples and oranges my friend!

Further, as horrific as the idea of forced sterilization might sound to some...if one plays Devil's Advocate, I believe it would become abundantly clear that society has a genuine interest and need that forced sterilization (in certain cases) could serve quite nicely! As I said before, serial abortionists and baby factories are taxing on society and are a detriment to the unborn children! I mean, how many times does society allow a pattern of destructive behavior to continue, before it finally has to say "enough's enough"!?!?!

 

[sayvara]

I respectfully disagree on two counts! First, what someone does for a living has no bearing on one's ability to be a good mother...unlike a systematic pattern of behavior that is directly related to motherhood and one's inability to be responsible in said area. That's like comparing apples and oranges my friend!

No it is not apples and oranges. What it comes down to is on what grounds you can force a grossly invasive medical procedure on someone else.

Answer: none. In most jurisdictions you cannot even heal someone against their consent.

Further, as horrific as the idea of forced sterilization might sound to some...if one plays Devil's Advocate, I believe it would become abundantly clear that society has a genuine interest and need that forced sterilization (in certain cases) could serve quite nicely! As I said before, serial abortionists and baby factories are taxing on society and are a detriment to the unborn children! I mean, how many times does society allow a pattern of destructive behavior to continue, before it finally has to say "enough's enough"!?!?!

Abortions cause almost no cost at all to society compared to other destructive behaviours, such as smoking. Claiming that abortionists are a burden on society is just plain silly. It's not an argument.

And "the detriment to unborn children" is a non-argument because you can't say "Well ok, we do concider the fetuses to be living children, but you get three kills for free". Either you concider abortion wrong all the time, or you don't concider it wrong. You can't have this half assed in-between nonsense where the first three unborns are biological waste but everything that comes after are that precious lives that must be saved.

Further more it is outrageously wrong to sterilize someone not because they have done something wrong, but because they might potentially do something wrong later on. Jurisprudence balks at the notion. To put thins in perspective: you can't even do this to people that have committed actual crimes. The state has no right to fuck up your life unless you have done something wrong. It cannot - under any circumstance - do it because you might so domething wrong, later on. Such reasoning is outrageous and completely against both all ethics of law and most constitutions around the world.

Essentially your stance is elitist nonsense where you want teach the "trash" a lesson by messing up their bodies in a way that medicine, law and human rights says a resounding "FUCK NO!" to. There is no cost to society that can ever motivate forced sterilization.

If it was the case that a cost to society could motivate forced sterilization, anyone that has any kind of hereditary congentical tendency would get tied. If confirmed confirmed that you have a gene that might give your kid a congenital disorder or congenital disease, then you'd get snipped. That is totally unacceptable and you know it.

/S

 

[Jon S.]

See, the fact is that I wouldn't just advocate sterilization of just "serial" abortionists! I would advocate it for anyone who got pregnant and/or got people pregnant in a careless, reckless, and irresponsible fashion! I'm certain most reasonable people would agree that having several illegitimate children to multiple men...or multiple illegitimate kids to multiple women is indeed RECKLESS and IRRESPONSIBLE & that society has a vested interest in dealing with it in the best interests of society as a whole!

Now, I realize that as things stand now, it would never be the law in the United States (without amending the Constitution anyway). However, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be something that would be desirable given the circumstances. If people had forced sterilization hanging over their heads...I bet you'd be surprised at how much of a drop we would see in unwanted pregnancies! I'm not saying it is something that would be ideal! In an ideal society, people (men and women) would be able to act responsibly! But, sadly something like forced sterilization is something that is needed when dealing with people who want to act like kids! How long should society baby people exactly?

 

[mrtrebus]

See, the fact is that I wouldn't just advocate sterilization of just "serial" abortionists! I would advocate it for anyone who got pregnant and/or got people pregnant in a careless, reckless, and irresponsible fashion! I'm certain most reasonable people would agree that having several illegitimate children to multiple men...or multiple illegitimate kids to multiple women is indeed RECKLESS and IRRESPONSIBLE & that society has a vested interest in dealing with it in the best interests of society as a whole!

Now, I realize that as things stand now, it would never be the law in the United States (without amending the Constitution anyway). However, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be something that would be desirable given the circumstances. If people had forced sterilization hanging over their heads...I bet you'd be surprised at how much of a drop we would see in unwanted pregnancies! I'm not saying it is something that would be ideal! In an ideal society, people (men and women) would be able to act responsibly! But, sadly something like forced sterilization is something that is needed when dealing with people who want to act like kids! How long should society baby people exactly?

Wrong. Who are the people that will define what an "irresponsible fashion" is? Education is needed, not forced sterilization. We live in a free democracy, where people are allowed to make their own choices, sometimes they may be the wrong choices. But enforcing sterilization is a barbaric & reprehensible course of action. A society I want no part of & thankfully would not be a viable society.

 

[Icewater Jones]

Very much against, but...



...there are exceptions to every rule, IMO. Few... but there are exceptions.

I believe abortion is murder except to save the life of the mother.

Also in cases where the baby will not survive or will have a short painful life after birth. There is nothing worse to me than seeing a childs life prolonged in physical and emotional pain... especially with no hope of survival.

 

[Jon S.]

Wrong. Who are the people that will define what an "irresponsible fashion" is? Education is needed, not forced sterilization. We live in a free democracy, where people are allowed to make their own choices, sometimes they may be the wrong choices. But enforcing sterilization is a barbaric & reprehensible course of action. A society I want no part of & thankfully would not be a viable society.

Oh, I know it would never happen or work...too many ways around it and impossible to police. However, it doesn't mean that it wouldn't be desirable if it could work. Further, society would come up with it's own standards just as it does with virtually any other law and or regulation. This would be no different in that respect. Just as society (a majority thereof anyway) agrees on other issues and laws and regulations are enacted...I'm sure a reasonable standard could be agreed upon regarding having abortions and/or illegitimate children (both for men and women). Hell, to be honest, I have advocated the more realistic idea of imprisoning men who are serial impregnators of women (creating a lot of illegitimate children). Taking the guy out of circulation, so to speak works for me too. Would there be anything wrong with that?

And, for the record, and I'll have to do some research on specifics, the United States has gone through periods in it's history where forced sterilization was in vogue! So, it's not like it hasn't happened here before or anything.

 

[Ike Stain]

People could care less about other people's kids, why are they so concerned about other people's fetuses?

At it's root this question is about people wanting to control other people's lives and bodies.

They should mind their own business instead.

 

[Jon S.]

People could care less about other people's kids, why are they so concerned about other people's fetuses?

At it's root this question is about people wanting to control other people's lives and bodies.

They should mind their own business instead.

AMEN!!! I've always found it interesting how the self-righteous cares about the unborn fetus...but that care goes out the window the minute the baby leaves the womb! That's more than a bit hypocritical in my book!

Like you said...if it doesn't directly affect them personally...they should mind their own business!

 

[Member442]

I'm pro choice. However, I feel in order for our society to be responsible in giving out abortions, they should implement a system where a woman only is allowed two abortions, and if she comes back for a third, they just tie up her tubes. Abortion shouldn't be used as a form of birth control, and while I'm pro-choice, I feel that women shouldn't have the right to procreate and continually abuse the system like that. Especially here in Canada, where abortions are free.

I agree it is used to much as the only from of birth control for many females. That is abuse of what it was set up for. There are way to many options. If you do have unprotected sex you can go and get the morning after pill or plan B (which at least here you don't even need a prescription for you just have to ask at the pharmacy as it's behind the counter)which is suppose to be a last resort as it becomes less effective the more it's used.

 

[blindedinchains]

I'm all for it.

 

[Deepcover]

Well i'm catholic and most catholics is against abortion but I really feel it's a woman's choice if she wants to terminate a pregancy or not. I also read (could be wrong) for abortions to happen, the baby has to become fully developed before killing it. I don't know but if that is how it's done that is just plain wrong.

 

[abejarano12]

If a woman wants one then she has the right to get one. Its her own body

 

[SpexyAshleigh]

Well i'm catholic and most catholics is against abortion but I really feel it's a woman's choice if she wants to terminate a pregancy or not. I also read (could be wrong) for abortions to happen, the baby has to become fully developed before killing it. I don't know but if that is how it's done that is just plain wrong.

I don't know where you read that, but its not true. Yes, late term abortions still happen behind closed doors, but LEGAL abortions (at least in my country) HAVE to take place before the 12 week mark. Fetuses are FAR from fully developed at that point.

 

[Death-Proof-69]

People could care less about other people's kids, why are they so concerned about other people's fetuses?

At it's root this question is about people wanting to control other people's lives and bodies.

They should mind their own business instead.

exactly...put one of the people railing against some young lady getting an abortion from a fuck-up in her shoes and see how they feel...guran-fucking-tee they'll have a different perspective on the matter once they see what it'd be like to be 17 and pregnant with no father in the picture and a family that's written her off because of it :2 cents:

 

[Deepcover]

I don't know where you read that, but its not true. Yes, late term abortions still happen behind closed doors, but LEGAL abortions (at least in my country) HAVE to take place before the 12 week mark. Fetuses are FAR from fully developed at that point.

Thank you for clearing that up.:coolman:

 

[Ulysses31]

You mean like this guy?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...es-feel-ANY-shame-Read---blood-pressure-.html

He doesn't plan on having any more kids now. Thank god he stopped before it got out of control!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ad-Keith-Macdonald-fathers-11th-child-16.html

 

[Cheekychick]

4 but it depends on the circumstances.