Whats up with these shootings?

It won't be long until every car that's manufactured in the US will be constructed with a built in breathalyzer of sorts.

And what would it do? Not allow ignition? Cause the engine to stall or become unresponsive when alcohol is smelled? Not everyone whose abilities are impaired would show up that way on a breathalyzer test, it's just a feel-good measure at the expense of everyone instead of properly punishing the drunks and potheads that dare sit behind the wheel.

Also, serial killers use whatever happens to be immediately available. Sometimes it's guns, sometimes it's knives. Sometimes it's a .357 stolen from a police officer, sometimes it's a .177 practice pistol. The whole thing of tracing bullets back to their guns is a tremendous myth and doesn't scare criminals at all.

They're only determined to kill and will do so unless stopped.
 
ol-school-perv...awesome also if anyone brought guns to us monkeys i'd go with the devil...if i believed in god and the devil mind you :D

If there is a man-God like all the religions believe he's not going to touch the truly good people, atheist or non-believers included. He'll have enough of his own to deal with severely. The devil is lobbying for expansion because hell is pretty much packed to the surface and there's gonna be millions of new arrivals soon.

I am nothing more than a human being and I believe in good over bad and the good I feel upon giving my kindness to others is my connection/spirituality felt daily. Some days are hell yet most are heavenly - I think I'm on the righteous road to whatever it is when it is(I'm going to float amongst the stars, at least I hope and believe rather than believing one chosen religion without question)

These shooter losers are a byproduct of a society that doesn't care. We worship all the wrong things and we don't know how good we have it, always wanting and yearning.

I live in a small apartment, have never had a girlfriend, I allowed drugs to tear my soul apart, and I am a man who hates himself for all the potential I threw away. But fuck it, I say out loud every day(usually at dinner after a hard days work)...

"Living the good life, fuck yeah!"

Here's what we need. A special division in the military where suicidal nobodys can sign up and do their thing the right way. Yes, a suicide bomber unit may seem like a serious no-no in the good guys ranks, but I think there's nothing more cowardly than drones and cruise missiles anyway. These losers could die in honor(unless a country was illegally invaded and the enemy is the only honorable side) and their parents could be somewhat proud(and get money from the gov. maybe - INCENTIVE!). They'd be heroes instead of zeros, at least in their minds anyway.
 
That's what happens when you make guns so easily available. Yes, I'm talking to you America.

Would these guys have gone on a killing rampage if all they had was a knife? NO.

Eight policemen were killed in Shanghai with just a knife by a crazy man !

During the Beijing Olympics Games, a knife was indeed used and killed the father-in-law of the coach of US Volleyball team and wounded 3 people and the killer also committed suicide with the knife.

There are many examples of multiple murders and suicides in Japan with just knives and swords !
 

Philbert

Banned
How hard is it to stop a knife wielding maniac? Not that hard, especially when he is some untrained nobody who is just pissed off because he lost his job.

Now, replace that knife with a gun. What happens? Dozens dead, hostages taken, international headlines are made.

As well, if you are strong, or skilled, or just determined, you can kill, seriously wound, and traumatize a lot of trapped people just as easily with a big sharp knife.
Guns aren't that easy to quickly shoot and kill moving targets, and we only have time to thank for high fatalities. Shooters need time to specifically target their victims.
Just like a trained, calm person can take a knife-wielder (eventually) and get cut up pretty good, someone with a CCP and a gun could take out a shooter before he made much progress.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7202403
Revelus could have easily killed his other sister, and Grandmother, if he was faster, more determined, and had not had the cops called before he did his deed. 4 dead in a short time, no gun.
I have had a few collections of bladed weapons in my time, and any of them could have killed easily and fast without much effort.
I don't think a gun is the same as a knife, but killing a lot of people at one time can be done without one. I'd rather have a gun to stop someone, than a knife.
The key is a crazed asshole determined to kill, without any impediment. Not the weapon of choice.
 
Guns aren't that easy to quickly shoot and kill moving targets, and we only have time to thank for high fatalities. Shooters need time to specifically target their victims.

This is true especially of handguns. The average person would be surprise how difficult it is for the average person to shoot a moving target with handgun.

In this video with all of the rounds that were fired neither of the four in this video were struck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi5kj-krgso
 
people always talk about using guns for protection against attackers, but when is the last time you heard about a bystander using a gun to stop someone else committing a shooting rampage? (it's usually just someone being personally attacked, and most often the defender is the one with the gun while the attacker is unarmed or at least not shooting at them first )

maybe it's just media bias, but I've never heard it happening.
 
I regret to say that, like the economic downturn, the craziness is just getting started. We're entering into an autocratic form of government.

The trouble is that young people have largely been deprived of the essential U.S. historical education needed in order to identify a governments' going out of bounds. All they seem to know is that bush sucked (which I agree with BTW) and, cool people don't "waste their vote" on lowly "secondary political parties" e.g. Independent, Libertarian etc.
Vote Democrat and only democrat because all of my professors fiercely insist that there will be no harmony unless we get a democratic president elected ! "We need to begin to repair the environment no matter what the cost". "If we have to sacrifice our home, I would hope that my two mommies would acquiesce to the idea that if we don't surrender the home, the earth would eventually become 98 % water mass !":eek: Besides, "rage against the machine demands that that we "fight the power" and vote democrat."

The deeper that we enter into the Obama cavern, the darker, the more challenging and the less dignity. Take away a good man's dignity,a man will usually appeal with letters (to his congressperson) in an attempt to reacquire said dignity, if not, it's flyin' knuckles, flyin' lead, steel or otherwise.

It's too much for some people to take, thinking that, last year at this time a man had his home, his family and his job in tact, in spite of the economic woes going on around him. Today he looses his career, his pension, his healthcare, his wife, his house, his children . . . and those assholes that he had elected are still assembling for their daily gourmet catered hot lunches and are still offering nothing specific about what has happened or what will happen.
So people snap

dumbest post ever
 
people always talk about using guns for protection against attackers, but when is the last time you heard about a bystander using a gun to stop someone else committing a shooting rampage? (it's usually just someone being personally attacked, and most often the defender is the one with the gun while the attacker is unarmed or at least not shooting at them first )

maybe it's just media bias, but I've never heard it happening.

Here's one example, albeit from Brazil.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b7_1238365884

There was another video on the same site that I can't locate that showed a man with a handgun stop a man from assaulting a U.S. police officer, whom he had pinned to the ground.

And those are just the ones caught on tape, on that site...
I think you may be on to something with the media bias. That would go against everything they stand for....
 
people always talk about using guns for protection against attackers, but when is the last time you heard about a bystander using a gun to stop someone else committing a shooting rampage? (it's usually just someone being personally attacked, and most often the defender is the one with the gun while the attacker is unarmed or at least not shooting at them first )

maybe it's just media bias, but I've never heard it happening.

[Pensioner with gun forced intruder to call police

August 21, 2008 12:00am
A PISTOL-packin' 85-year-old woman turned the tables on a burgler and at gun point made him call the police and tell officers what he was doing.

Leda Smith said she returned from church to find the intruder inside her home in Springhill Township, about 45 miles south of Pittsburgh.

"I just walked right on past him to the bedroom and got my gun," she said.

Smith grabbed the .22-calibre revolver she had been keeping by her bed since a neighbor's home was burgled a few weeks ago.

"I said 'What are you doing in my house?' He just kept saying he didn't do it," Smith said.

She forced him to call while she kept him in her sights and after the thief called 911, Smith kept holding the gun on him until state police arrived at her home in Springhill Township, about 45 miles south of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the US.]

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24213186-5012895,00.html

Now imagine how this story might have been different if she didn't have her revolver....She drew her weapon, aimed it and "intended" to use it.
 
hot mega, all this is, however, anecdotal. the fact is most of the violence with guns is perpetration not protection.

Well the deterrent value may never be quantified though. How many times do criminals elect to not invade a home (for example) because they are not sure which home has an armed occupant?

Like this analogy; Police officers don't need to be present at every stop light to keep people from running them. The mere possibility of being caught is deterrent enough for people to not chance it in the overwhelming majority of instances.

All that aside, not a single one of the instances of illegal violence involving firearms over the past few weeks is more important (IMO) than the one opportunity this old lady had to defend herself.

I understand that there is the mindset that could never understand that perspective. But it is certainly a greater crime to me if a person wanted to defend themselves but were prevented from doing so than the unfortunate circumstance of people in a violent world happening to be in the wrong place at the wrong time as that happens in thousands of varying cases everyday.
 
At the risk of being blasted by my fellow freeones peers, I say stop making guns except for hunting. Chances of a regular joe using a hunting gun for average illegal shooting is lower.
 

Philbert

Banned
At the risk of being blasted by my fellow freeones peers, I say stop making guns except for hunting. Chances of a regular joe using a hunting gun for average illegal shooting is lower.

Well, since regular Joes don't usually go on rampages, that's a weak point. I guess you don't have much of a history with firearms, huh?
Years ago, a nutjob went into a schoolyard and opened fire with an AK...he killed a few Vietnamese children, and hurt a few more.
If the not-regular Joe had shown up with a shotgun, he's have taken many more of the precious lives.
And if the Viet nutjob who went off in Binghamton had used a multi-round shotgun, there wouldn't have been as many survivors.
For the average legal gun carrying citizen, a handgun is easier to carry and keep concealed; for the psycho killer ease of carry and concealment isn't a factor.
 
Well, since regular Joes don't usually go on rampages, that's a weak point. I guess you don't have much of a history with firearms, huh?
Years ago, a nutjob went into a schoolyard and opened fire with an AK...he killed a few Vietnamese children, and hurt a few more.
If the not-regular Joe had shown up with a shotgun, he's have taken many more of the precious lives.
And if the Viet nutjob who went off in Binghamton had used a multi-round shotgun, there wouldn't have been as many survivors.
For the average legal gun carrying citizen, a handgun is easier to carry and keep concealed; for the psycho killer ease of carry and concealment isn't a factor.

Whats your definition of regular Joe? As I have tried to get across many times in these debates on guns that even though I support the 2nd amendement there is no doubt that most gun shootings in this country are by up to then law abiding for the most part citizens(regular joes in my book).Career criminals are not the types that go on these rampages.And again most shootings are heat of the moment domestic disputes or suicides, not crimes or defense of crimes.We pay a price for the right and the ability of someone depressed or angry to more easily kill is it.
 

Philbert

Banned
Whats your definition of regular Joe? As I have tried to get across many times in these debates on guns that even though I support the 2nd amendement there is no doubt that most gun shootings in this country are by up to then law abiding for the most part citizens(regular joes in my book).Career criminals are not the types that go on these rampages.And again most shootings are heat of the moment domestic disputes or suicides, not crimes or defense of crimes.We pay a price for the right and the ability of someone depressed or angry to more easily kill is it.

By the very nature of the definition of the word "rampage", ordinary people don't run wild killing masses of people when they have too many bad hair days.
Most ordinary Joe types may kill someone in a fit of "passion", like a spouse or a friend while drunk or fighting, but not too many regular people think of actually killing out of annoyance or anger.
Certainly these recent shootings/stabbings of multiple victims were the actions of disturbed and un-regular Joes...not just a momentary fit of anger or passion.
I don't have an answer to the gun availability problem, just not "everyone can have one" and "no one can have one"...:dunno:
 
At the risk of being blasted by my fellow freeones peers, I say stop making guns except for hunting. Chances of a regular joe using a hunting gun for average illegal shooting is lower.

Define hunting gun. Seriously. Every gun used for hunting today was the assault rifle of it's day, and plenty of "assault rifles" today are plenty suitable for hunting. So what makes a gun a "hunting gun" and what makes a gun an "assault rifle"?

Anyway, the majority of fatal shootings in the US are caused, and received, by repeat offenders.

71% of gunshot victims in the US had previous arrest records.
64% had been convicted of a crime.
The average amongst them was 11 arrests.
Of the victims with criminal histories, 73% had known their assailant (twice as often as victims that had no criminal history)

Sources: Richard Lumb, Paul Friday, City of Charlotte Gunshot Study, Department of Justice.
San Francisco Department of Health and San Francisco Injury center. "Firearm Related Incidents" an annual report.


Anyway, the majority of gun crime is between criminals, not spur of the moment, people freaking out.

Guns PREVENT at least 2.5 Million crimes a year. Often without a single shot fired, nor a drop of blood spilled; simply the sight of the weapon deterred the crime. Every day 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing the gun, and in less than 0.9% of these instances is a shot even fired.

Sources: National Crime Victimization Survery, Bureau of Justice Statistics;
Ibid.
 
Guns PREVENT at least 2.5 Million crimes a year. Often without a single shot fired, nor a drop of blood spilled; simply the sight of the weapon deterred the crime. Every day 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes are prevented just by showing the gun, and in less than 0.9% of these instances is a shot even fired.

Sources: National Crime Victimization Survery, Bureau of Justice Statistics;
Ibid.

Uh-oh! You have just countered baseless, emotional assertions with facts...standby to be personally attacked and maligned.

BTW, while I agree with the facts you cite in this reply, I saw in one of your earlier replies that you think punishments for DUI are too lenient. I couldn't disagree more. Not to veer to far off but having your license suspended, being fined and forced to attend thought reform classes for a 1st offense is plenty punishment. If you cause no personal or property damage and you merely have an amount of alcohol in your system that exceeds the legal limit...what is the purpose of more punishment??
 
BTW, while I agree with the facts you cite in this reply, I saw in one of your earlier replies that you think punishments for DUI are too lenient. I couldn't disagree more. Not to veer to far off but having your license suspended, being fined and forced to attend thought reform classes for a 1st offense is plenty punishment. If you cause no personal or property damage and you merely have an amount of alcohol in your system that exceeds the legal limit...what is the purpose of more punishment??

That varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, some places it's too rough, some places not enough... :dunno:
 
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