U.S Becoming Less Religious, The Observant Become More Devout

[blakey]

double post

 

[Straight Shooter]

Your conscience. But what is that? And can it vary from person to person. Some people have no conscience. Then what?

this board is being wonky as hell hence the repeat posts.


And who is confucius to define morality for me? Don't tell me what to do.

Conscience:an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior.

Yes, not everyone has a conscience. Those are people who can murder and rape and can committ all kinds of heinous acts and not feel one ounce of remorse. So what's your point?

 

[sean miguel]

What defines right or wrong to an atheist ? Our conscience. Basically, as Confucius said : Do not impose on others what you do not desire others to impose upon you is the rule.
Would I like this to happen to me ? If not, I shouldn't make it happen to other people.

the golden rule :coolthumb:


it's beyond my understanding how anyone, religious or not, could fail to understand the logic of this idea


and that it can form the basis of an individual's morality

But that's YOUR idea of morality.


Don't impose that on me.

 

[sean miguel]

Conscience:an inner feeling or voice viewed as acting as a guide to the rightness or wrongness of one's behavior.

Yes, not everyone has a conscience. Those are people who can murder and rape and can committ all kinds of heinous acts and not feel one ounce of remorse. So what's your point?

you're still not answering my question. what defines right and wrong?

My inner feeling tells me I like what you have and I should take it. And it's right because it benefits me.

 

[Johan]

what is "wrong?" who defines that? we're going in circles here.

Confuciius was a chinese philopher who lived around 500 BC. He's not telling what to do

as Confucius said : Do not impose on others what you do not desire others to impose upon you is the rule.

If you can't tell the difference between Do not impose on others what you do not desire others to impose upon you and Thou shalt not commit adultery or Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, let me explain :
Thou shalt not commit adultery is a real, a law, it's very specific. Do not impose on others what you do not desire others to impose upon you is more like a moral guidance, it can be applied to many situations.

One one side, we've got God an christianity/judaity/islam forbidding pointing the right path. On the other side we've got confuscius, giving you a compass to help you find that right path

 

[Johan]

double post (again)

 

[Jack Davenport]

But that's YOUR idea of morality.


Don't impose that on me.

Oh snap! afiagdat!!!!

 

[Straight Shooter]

you're still not answering my question. what defines right and wrong?

My inner feeling tells me I like what you have and I should take it. And it's right because it benefits me.

I just told you, my conscience. You're looking for an exact definition of right and wrong but unfortunately there is no objective right and wrong. Your inner feeling is telling you that you should steal. You Might feel that that is right but our society would say that that is wrong because there is a law against stealing.

 

[sean miguel]

I just told you, my conscience. You're looking for an exact definition of right and wrong but unfortunately there is no objective right and wrong. Your inner feeling is telling you that you should steal. You Might feel that that is right but our society would say that that is wrong because there is a law against stealing.

There is no objective right and wrong yet you are appealing to one. If my conscience differs from yours then whose is right? And if society has the final say on what is right and wrong we can go down that road too.

 

[sean miguel]

double pos.

 

[Straight Shooter]

There is no objective right and wrong yet you are appealing to one. If my conscience differs from yours then whose is right? And if society has the final say on what is right and wrong we can go down that road too.

I'm appealing to one? I simply answered your question. Did I say I agreed with it? You might feel that it's right to steal however our society would say you're wrong as there are laws against stealing. Our country says that at the federal level marijuana is an illegal substance. If I choose to smoke marijuana, is that right or wrong?

 

[sean miguel]

I'm appealing to one? I simply answered your question. Did I say I agreed with it? You might feel that it's right to steal however our society would say you're wrong as there are laws against stealing. Our country says that at the federal level marijuana is an illegal substance. If I choose to smoke marijuana, is that right or wrong?

So who is right? Unless you say there's absolutely no right or wrong and it's a total free-for-all, you're relying on a standard of what is right or wrong. Whose? If it's your conscience, that's subjective. If it's what society decides then say that.

 

[BlkHawk]

So who is right? Unless you say there's absolutely no right or wrong and it's a total free-for-all, you're relying on a standard of what is right or wrong. Whose? If it's your conscience, that's subjective. If it's what society decides then say that.

It is both individuals, and society. There is no constant right and wrong, both are fluid as determined by individuals, and society. The majority of individuals determine what each society determines is moral.

50 years ago gay sex, and marijuana were both considered wrong. Now one has completely changed, and the other is fast changing. Slavery was once morally fine, now most cultures consider it wrong.

Religion does a similar thing though it changes more slowly.

Deuteronomy 22:13-21New International Version (NIV)
Marriage Violations

13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16 Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels[a] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

The above was once considered moral at one point in history, just as religion is now used to oppose civil rights for gays. Western societies reject the above as morally wrong, and you don't see advocates for publicly stoning non-virgins. Just as in the near future you will no longer see religion used to advocate against gay civil rights.

What is moral is, and always has been in a state of flux, and religions that fail to adapt to that state cease to exist, as they no longer reflect the society they are attempting to serve. You may not believe that, but history has shown it is true time, and time again. How many people would identify as Christian if the churches still advocated slavery, denied woman the right to vote, or stood against inter-racial marriage? Various Christian faiths all did these things in our nations past, all of those churches who refused to adapt, and continued to advocate for those things have virtually ceased to exist.

I would imagine other faiths, the ones based on the god of Abraham, and also the ones that are not have gone through similar changes, but I am not familiar enough with those faiths to point them out.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Oh great.Quoting the Old Testament and law directed at Israelites as if it is somehow relevant today.

That's never been done before.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Oh great.Quoting the Old Testament and law directed at Israelites as if it is somehow relevant today.

That's never been done before.

 

[BlkHawk]

Oh great.Quoting the Old Testament and law directed at Israelites as if it is somehow relevant today.

That's never been done before.

Leviticus 18-20 is also old testament, and was directed at the Levites, however it also the most used verse by many churches to justify opposition to gay sex. Pot meet kettle.

 

[sean miguel]

hold up. one sec. on second thought, I don't care. all that time I could've been jerking to porn. actually I was, but that's beside the point.

porn.

 

[sean miguel]

wait, hold up, on second thought, nevermind, I don't care. all this time I could've been jerking to porn. well I was, but I didn't have to multi task. I seriously don't give a shit what anyone believes regarding this matter. apologies for wasting anyone's time.

Porn.

 

[Johan]

Only the Old Testament bans homosexuality. There is no mention of it in the New Testament. Still, christians consider homosexuality as a son, an abomination.

If you think the Old Testament only applies to israélites then there is no reason for christians to consider homosexuality as a sin.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Only the Old Testament bans homosexuality. There is no mention of it in the New Testament. Still, christians consider homosexuality as a son, an abomination.

If you think the Old Testament only applies to israélites then there is no reason for christians to consider homosexuality as a sin.

While the Bible doesn't specifically say "Butt pirates or uphill gardeners' there are plenty of references in the New Testament from Jude to Romans to Corinthians. When Paul speaks of " unclean" scholars agree he is referencing homosexuality.