To those who perished 8 years ago.....

[ChefChiTown]

Also...

It's hard to truly honor somebody that you didn't personally know. Why? Because, you wouldn't really know HOW to honor them. For instance...

I don't want a funeral. I think the idea of having a funeral for someone is completely worthless and is definitely not done to "pay respect" for the dead - it's to comfort the living. Yet, everybody waltzes around and acts as if holding a funeral and gathering in a church is somehow honoring the dead. But, what about me? What about when I die? If I died tomorrow and my parents held a funeral for me a few days later and 500 people showed up...would they really be "paying respect" to me? No. FUCK no. Why? Because, I DON'T WANT A FUNERAL. So, in a sick twist of irony, they are actually disrespecting me (the deceased) by having a funeral for me.

Just something to think about.

Et tu, Cheffy? Unreal. You could not be more wrong. Going to a funeral because you have to.....totally different. Your analogy holds no water. Someone you may have known, barely known, or not known at all, and attending their funeral out of a feeling of obligation is MUCH different that witnessing thousands of your fellow innocent countrymen and women get annihilated for no valid reason at all.

I don't think you can say "most"....you don't know that to be true. I don't think people have made the trip to Ground Zero so they could be "seen."

If someone who lived 3 blocks away from you was brutally raped and murdered for no reason at all, but you had never met them, would you honestly care? Yes, you would feel bad for what happened, but would you honestly give a shit? No, you wouldn't. Why? Because, you didn't know them.

Would you go to their funeral? No. Would you go to their candlelight vigil? No. But, they're your fellow innocent countryman/countrywoman too, so...???

I just think that 9/11 is something that riles up Americans into a fit of overly-patriotic frenzy which makes them think in ways that they normally wouldn't. 9/11 was TERRIBLE and there is absolutely no arguing that fact. But, you can't honestly believe that most Americans truly give a shit about the people, the actual people, who were killed during 9/11. I'm willing to bet that more Americans than not only care about America being attacked that day; not the people who died.

:2 cents:

 

[JordanRules]

So how many times have you thought about them this past year? How many times this past year have you personally done something to honour them? Before 9/11 (and after) they were complete strangers to most of you and you wouldn't even have noticed they were gone if they died any other way that didn't make the headlines. It's the events of that day that you remember, the event of the planes crashing into the two towers, the event of people dying. Once a year you all have a big get together and you tell each other how great America is and that something like 9/11 can never be allowed to happen again and 2 days later everything is back to "normal".

You didn't ask me this question, but I'm going to answer it. When do I think of the victims? Everyday. I also think about our men and women who protect my freedom as an American, including some family members. I think of the firefighters and police officers who I have the utmost respect for. When do I think of these people? Each day that I hang my American Flag outside. As it says on the window sticker on my car, "We Will Never Forget". And I have not. And I will not. I love my country. Is it perfect? Of course not. But the one thing I'm positive of is that it is the greatest country on Gods green earth and I'm proud to be a citizen.

To my fellow proud Americans, there are ignorant people who try to tell us how we are to remember 9/11 and the days, weeks, months, and years thereafter. Most of them more than likely do not live in America, so why listen to them. They obviously do not understand.

To everyone else who is not American, but also joins Americans in mourning, thank you.

And God Bless America.

And, I'm sorry Boothbabe, I sure hope I'm taking it out of context, but you calling 9/11 a big "get together" really, really pisses me off! So, I'm going to pretend you didn't mean it that way.

 

[dogbone27]

^^Were you in the District 8 years ago?

Yes I was.

 

[georges]

So how many times have you thought about them this past year? How many times this past year have you personally done something to honour them? Before 9/11 (and after) they were complete strangers to most of you and you wouldn't even have noticed they were gone if they died any other way that didn't make the headlines. It's the events of that day that you remember, the event of the planes crashing into the two towers, the event of people dying. Once a year you all have a big get together and you tell each other how great America is and that something like 9/11 can never be allowed to happen again and 2 days later everything is back to "normal".

I thought and still think every minute of people that I have known as I child when I was 8 during my first travel when I discovered NY and the World Trade Center and a lot of them became some very good friends. During my other travels to the USA, I met also other people that worked in the area where 9/11 happened. The day when 9/11 happened, I immediately thought of them. I also met some friends of my uncle who were military personnel and law enforcement personnel that also became friends of mine. During the attack of the Pentagon, I immediately thought of them too. You are very disrespectful to many American members here, you clearly have no fucking damn clue what it is to have your country attacked.
France was victim in 1997 of the bombing of a train on the RER B railway line by Islamist group the FIS happened, I was on one railway station platform in front of the one where I saw the rear of the train exploding.
You criticized me once to be narrowminded, I can tell you one goddamn fucking thing on my fucking behalf which is also valuable for many other European non American cultured people who are just pleased when a Democrat is elected, you must have relative or acquaintances or have family as traveled in the USA, to be able to debate about what happened 9/11 and why Americans remember it every year.
You and a lot of European non American cultured people should shut the fuck up and be respectful of the victims. I am seriously infuriated to see that kind of attitude. But I guess, I can't expect much from someone who has never traveled in America and who has no family neither any acquaintances or friends of any kind in that country.
In USA, after 9/11/2001, I received a lot of email from several friends of my uncle and friends of my cousins as well as from the people I met, all were saying the same: "We will never forget. United we stay, united we will win."
I am not an American but I am one of the most pro American persons on that board, despite I am labelled by some as an "old fashioned" or "silly" right winger. If Europe has been freed from Nazism and has known wealth, it is mainly thanks to America and the Marshall plan.

 

[georges]

Right now somewhere on earth a man who you have never known has died from old age. Can you remember him? Can you honour him?

Wow what a brilliant sense of logic!But what the fuck does it have to do with the discussion, please enlighten me.
Dieing from old age is not the same than dieing from a terrorist attack or murder.
If the guy was a good neighbour and was liked by everyone, of course I will remember him but a complete stranger, you gotta be kidding.

 

[georges]

Also...

1) It's hard to truly honor somebody that you didn't personally know. Why? Because, you wouldn't really know HOW to honor them. For instance...

2) I don't want a funeral. I think the idea of having a funeral for someone is completely worthless and is definitely not done to "pay respect" for the dead - it's to comfort the living. Yet, everybody waltzes around and acts as if holding a funeral and gathering in a church is somehow honoring the dead. But, what about me? What about when I die? If I died tomorrow and my parents held a funeral for me a few days later and 500 people showed up...would they really be "paying respect" to me? No. FUCK no. Why? Because, I DON'T WANT A FUNERAL. So, in a sick twist of irony, they are actually disrespecting me (the deceased) by having a funeral for me.

3) Just something to think about.

4) If someone who lived 3 blocks away from you was brutally raped and murdered for no reason at all, but you had never met them, would you honestly care? Yes, you would feel bad for what happened, but would you honestly give a shit? No, you wouldn't. Why? Because, you didn't know them.

5) Would you go to their funeral? No. Would you go to their candlelight vigil? No. But, they're your fellow innocent countryman/countrywoman too, so...???

6) I just think that 9/11 is something that riles up Americans into a fit of overly-patriotic frenzy which makes them think in ways that they normally wouldn't. 9/11 was TERRIBLE and there is absolutely no arguing that fact. But, you can't honestly believe that most Americans truly give a shit about the people, the actual people, who were killed during 9/11. I'm willing to bet that more Americans than not only care about America being attacked that day; not the people who died.

:2 cents:

1) Kinda true, you always feel closer to someone you know.

2) Everyone has their will and own way of they want to be buried if they die. There is no standard definition of the burying procedure.

3) Yes

4) I would care, I don't want to live in an area subject to a murder spree, I would call a private investigator as well as investigate myself about what happened and how it happened because I don't want other victims in my area.

5) Yes, I would go to their funeral because it could happen to me or my neighbours and I would go to their candlelight vigil.

6) I disagree with you.

 

[georges]

1) Some people are so bent on making their "side" the good guy and the other "side" the bad guy that they just don't get it.

2) Goddammit....we are AMERICANS first and foremost and I don't give a flying fuck if you are a right-wing nutball or a left-wing lunatic, when it comes right down to it....we have a helluva lot more in common than the things that divide us. I wish that just once....and this memorial thread is the perfect opportunity....that we could come together as one and just be AMERICANS....united in respect and honor for those who SACRIFICED their lives on September 11, 2001.

3) If you are more dedicated to your political philosophy than you are to your country, you are a traitor in my book. I might disagree with you on many political topics but if your welfare is threatened or you suddenly become endangered by the acts of those who hate our country and our culture, then those walls come tumbling down and I will stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you to protect you and this great nation of ours. These are the very tenets upon which this nation was founded and we must never....NEVER....let them pass into obscurity over the petty differences that divide us.

4) The USA fucking rocks and anyone who takes issue with that can kiss my fucking ass.

5) How often do you think about or do something overt about the British troops who died on the battlefields of WWII? Or WWI? What about all the civilian victims of the blitz from the Luftwaffe? Do you know any of those victims personally? How often do you think about them???

6) You are totally out of bounds here, Boothbabe.

7) I like you a lot BB but you need to leave this one alone. You are dead fucking wrong here and need to give it up. You make yourself look more idiotic with every post you make on a subject about which you obviously know very little.

1) Some people have always their had conceptions and are always divided sadly.

2) I agree.

3) I agree

4) Yes, USA rocks. Like on many muscle cars plate I see: "See USA first"

5) Boothbabe has neve been to the cemetery where are buried the American, Canadian and British soldiers that have died during d day.

6) I agree.

7) She was never knowledgeable when it comes to USA and their politics.

 

[ThatRedWing]

Please let's not turn this into a witch hunt here. I think bb's comments are misguided, but she has an opinion that she is entitled to. No matter what you say it will not change that opinion.

I hate "fake" patriotism. That is what lead to a lot of the problems we have today (Iraq). I love my country and I think of those attacks almost every day. As far as being back to "normal" in two days, hell we are still not there. I do not care what your political views are. I do not care what your religious beliefs are. If as an American someone attacks us I will stand by your side and die if it comes to that. What about those people that died in that Pennsylvania field that day. They made the ultimate sacrifice to make sure that plane did not reach it's target. That is the America that I love.

 

[Hot Mega]

They weren't sacrificed, they were murdered.

And I have to say that to me as an outsider it seems like Americans have turned 9/11 into a holy day of almost biblical proportions. It sometimes seems like you enjoy remembering the victims so much that you've turned it into something perverted. In my eyes it has become nothing more than an excuse for you to let your "patriotic" hearts cry out how great America is and how you should all be united on this holiest of holy days just to resume your petty bickering the next day.

There is some truth to this post however distasteful. But can't you allow space for others to commemorate an event how they so chose? Meaning, no matter what your sentiments may be, to reserve them for a more appropriate time or wiser, just keep them to yourself altogether.

Let's assume for a second that all concepts and words are not directly transferable to other cultures and languages. In US culture and in the English language the is a concept and a word called "memorial". I'm not sure if that concept exists in you native language or culture. But in American culture it's when we mark the day of some catalyzing event usually some tragedy and take the time to reflect on the circumstances and commiserate those lost from it's occurrence.

You see, it's precisely because we have differences and sometimes bicker that it's necessary for these memorial type days to be different. So that we can set aside our differences if only but for a moment, an hour or entire day depending on how you chose to commemorate the event to say we haven't forgotten.

For example, it's not necessary for us to have known one single person who died on Dec. 7th, 1941 when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, HI. In this case we share one bond, they were Americans.

The pain and horror most Americans felt in witnessing the attacks of 9/11 removes it from the abstract (the general response people have to others dying they don't know personally) and makes knowing specific persons lost in the attacks unnecessary. That's why we can memorialize and pay our respects to those lost even though we may not have known them.

 

[Baill Inneraora]

I think I might be the only person here who is going to have big enough nuts to agree with you and admit that you're right (for the most part). Obviously, that was a blanket statement that you made, because we can both agree that not every single American is like that. But, I believe that the majority of Americans are like that.

To everyone who is getting in an uproar over Boothbabe's comment, just look at it this way...

Think of the last time you were at a funeral. Now, think of all the people that showed up to honor the deceased at that funeral. Do you honestly think that all of those people were there to pay respect for the deceased? No, they weren't. In all honesty, a lot of people show up to funerals just so they can say that they were there. A lot of people don't go to funerals (or even tributes for victims of tragedies like 9/11) to "honor the deceased"; they do it just so everybody else can see them there, which makes them feel like they did something nice. That's not honor...that's selfish. And, that's exactly how a lot of Americans are with 9/11.

So by that way of thinking, since I didn’t actually know anyone who died there, I shouldn’t be moved when I visited Pearly Harbor and the USS Arizona memorial?

 

[JacknCoke]

So by that way of thinking, since I didn’t actually know anyone who died there, I shouldn’t be moved when I visited Pearl Harbor and the USS Arizona memorial?

Just to add to this, I have been to Arlington National Cemetery and I can't say I know anyone that is buried there directly but I can tell you that the whole trip there was moving. I have never felt more respect for Men and Women that I don't know then I did that day. I believe my visit was 1 year prior to 9/11. I can not see the point behind chef's comment because I do pay respects for people I do not even know...

 

[rad2927]

I pay respects to people I didn't and don't know all of the time-visiting a National Cemetery and Veterans Hospitals,going to Dachau in Germany and praying for Holocaust victims, and every time I stand and remove my hat at a parade or for the national anthem its out of respect for ALL who have protected our country past and present-dead or alive. I would feel awful if I disrespected some who was also there and saw i was taking the sacrifice of so many for granted.Maybe I have too much empathy for others but I do not ever want to change or lose it.

 

[ChefChiTown]

So by that way of thinking, since I didn’t actually know anyone who died there, I shouldn’t be moved when I visited Pearly Harbor and the USS Arizona memorial?

No, I'm not saying that you wouldn't feel bad for somebody who died just because you didn't know them. I'm just saying that it's hard to HONOR them; not impossible, but hard. See the example of my funeral for my explanation, but, just to add to it...

Are we really honoring anybody by taking off our baseball hats during the National Anthem? Are we really honoring anybody by putting flowers on their grave? Are we really honoring anybody by having a holiday for them or building them a memorial? No, not necessarily. All we are accomplishing by doing those things is remembering them; not honoring them. There's a big difference.

For instance, if we truly wanted to honor the people that died during the 9/11 attacks, we (as a country) would do whatever we could in order to prevent it from ever happening again, so nobody else would have to suffer through what they went through. Yes, we have taken steps to do such a thing, but building a monument doesn't fit into that category.

Martin Luther King Jr. fought for equal rights. He wanted people of all colors to treat eachother as people, and not as a color. Martin Luther King Jr. preached about equality and how all human beings should love eachother, no matter the color of their skin. For his efforts, the United States designated a holiday for him; Martin Luther King Jr. Day. Does that honor him? No. Fuck no. It just helps us to remember him. If we truly wanted to honor him, then we wouldn't commit hate crimes, discriminate against people of other colors or allow our fears to control our actions towards people who were different than us.

There's a huge difference between remembering somebody and honoring them and I think that a lot of people (not just in this thread) have a hard time realizing that.

 

[JordanRules]

This is one of the most foolish statements that I have ever read.

Foolish people make foolish statements. That's all.

 

[JordanRules]

Are you serious? I'm being totally straight right now. Are you serious? Or are you just using this as an excuse to troll?

Do I know their names? Does it MATTER? No. It doesn't. Should we not remember/honor those slaughtered in the Holocaust because we may not know all 6 million names? They were my fellow country men and women....while it would seem that you do not experience the same level of patriotism for your country, I actually DO care about my country and the people I inhabit it with.

I'm only thinking of what they had to endure? *sigh* You really have no clue, no understanding, which is not at all surprising, as you obviously have no heart. Yes....I think it is pretty obvious that I think about what they had to endure.....I also think about the children whose mommy or daddy never came home....the loving and doting wife/husband who will never feel the embtrace of their soul mate ever again......the mother/father who did not even have the cold comfort of a burial, and a specific place to visit the remains of their child.

You should stop posting in this thread, because all you are doing is spreading a great level of disdain for yourself throughout. Indeed, I for one can never take ANYTHING you have to say here at FreeOnes seriously ever again. For someone to come on here, on OUR national day of remembrance, and smear it with your childish, insipid, unintelligent, uncaring, and otherwise disgusting attitude speaks volumes of one's character, of which you have zero.

Your arguments carry no weight and are the thinnest I have ever seen. There is no debate with you what so ever. You don't make any sense, and you compound that with every "response".

Wonderfully said. Thank you.

 

[busenbust]

I thought the remembrance yesterday was really dignified. Obama's speech, the roll-call, the quietness shown, the respect communicated - all displayed a sense of genuine grievance and simultaneously a feeling of 'We have/can/ and will get over this'. Although I would dispute the idea that Time is/ can be a Healer (unsure).

 

[Bonezstorm]

To all the people who lost and still losing their lives because of terrorism and war all over the world
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1024/632530852_56ffb00935.jpg

 

[busenbust]

To all the people who lost and still losing their lives because of terrorism and war all over the world
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1024/632530852_56ffb00935.jpg

Love it:thumbsup:

 

[~~whimsy~~]

I remember once watching Howard Stern's show on E!, he had a 9/11 widow on and she talked about her drug use and everything; how she swings and other usual Stern banter. That riled people up and the calls he got were pissed off Americans calling her un-American and disgrace and everything else under the sun.

I don't agree with what she was saying, but oh well, not my problem. However because she was a widow of a 9/11 victim, it seems people had this picture in their mind she needed to be some average housewife that bakes apple pies and takes the kids to baseball practice in the minivan, and this white picket fence, flower bed around the house, and all this sort. Because she wasn't what people expected the victim and their families to be, it riled up so many and they became so vicious and cruel! It was sad to hear the venom spewing out their mouths to this woman.

I hate that 9/11 had to happen at all! All those people who lost their lives because pissed off Islamic extremists with sand up their asses. I hate that people were killed in a terrorist attack of that scale.

But we have not been attacked since. 8 years has gone by, it is almost unreal to think that many years gone by already, but thing is we have not been attacked again.

They underestimated us, they got away with attacking the WTC in '93, the two US Embassies, the USS Cole, and countless other attacks across the world; they thought 9/11 would be their climatic finish. They were wrong, we bit back hard, and brought them a war at their front door!

It's just sad it took that long to get serious about them and to finally do something about it. All those lives lost, when it could had been avoided, we finally did something.

I simply hate to see all those people who lost their lives that day; just like any other time someone loses their life over something. Whether it be crime, robbery, or car crash; that's probably why I don't like watching local news. I get sick of hearing nothing but sad, depressing news day in and day out!

Of course this day will always be remembered! And naturally all those people who lost their life will be remembered, as a result. It was a dark day in our day in time. Just as Pearl Harbor was for another generation. They were bigger than the average disasters; they were attacks bigger than average on America; people remember grand scales of that nature. You just don't forget something like that.

So, yes, it will always be remembered. Dark day in American history.

 

[JordanRules]

To all the people who lost and still losing their lives because of terrorism and war all over the world
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1024/632530852_56ffb00935.jpg

Very nice! :thumbsup: