Here's a new question to ponder. If there is so much suffering in this world, and you believe heaven has no suffering, why don't you kill yourself so your soul can be magically transported to heaven? If you say suicide is a sin, well so is murder, but aren't murderers forgiven and allowed to get into heaven? How bad of a sin can suicide be if it isn't even one of the ten commandments? You are not hurting anyone but yourself, so surely god would understand if he loved you so much. Think about it and you'll realize how absurd things are. The main reason i don't kill myself is because i can't guarantee there is nothing worse after death. But a true believer shouldn't have this problem as they expect to be granted entrance to the kingdom of god. If youre answer hinges on the idea that you are getting too much satisfaction out of life now, ask yourself whether that is just an excuse to cover up the fact that you don't have that much faith in the afterlife. Even if you have faith and still want to stay and get the pleasure from life you get now, why not kill yourself and get the greater pleasure of heaven without risking staying on earth and likely eventually suffering in numerous possible ways? You see, no matter which way you slice it, a true believer should kill themselves.
My thoughts on God
- Thread starter milton waddams
- Start date
bandanoantri
Banned
Just what we need commentary from Milton on God.
It's called freewill.
Tell me what good free will is if you're not given a choice? I can make a construct that runs on 5 volt batteries and has the ability to to turn both left and right at every corner & I put him in a maze.
If he goes right, he'll run into a lot of obstacles, placed there by me and if he chooses the left paths, I'll put him on 220 volt at the end of the maze & maybe do other sadistic things to him, or I'll let my henchman do it and call him the devil. Of course I'll also tell my henchman to persuade my little construct to take the left path at every turn (if I didn't want him to, I'd just send my henchman to some place where he can't influence the choices of my little construct, but I obviously haven't done that).
Rather sadistic, don't you think?
No, but as soon as we turn away from him, he sends plagues or floods at us to destroy us all. So as long as he's not involved, he doesn't care, but as soon as his ego is hurt, he becomes pissed and takes action.
Bit of a selfish guy, don't you agree?
Besides, people don't start tsunamis, they don't start volcanic eruptions, people don't start earthquakes and people didn't make diseases like the plague, AIDS, ebola, etc, they merely spread them.
Of course, if there were no god, then all of this wouldn't apply.
After Milton Waddams died he was whisked up to Heaven, entered the pearly gates, and approached Saint Peter.
Peter began to read to him from the Book of Deeds, at which point Milton proclaimed, "It doesn't matter why I am here! I want to talk to God about how long I had to wait to die and how much of a shitty job he is doing running the universe. You call yourself a supreme deity? You are incompetent!"
A procession of angels flew up blaring trumpets and cast Milton out of Paradise.
He then made a post complaining about it on Freeones.
Peter began to read to him from the Book of Deeds, at which point Milton proclaimed, "It doesn't matter why I am here! I want to talk to God about how long I had to wait to die and how much of a shitty job he is doing running the universe. You call yourself a supreme deity? You are incompetent!"
A procession of angels flew up blaring trumpets and cast Milton out of Paradise.
He then made a post complaining about it on Freeones.
more evidence god is evil.
Here's another interesting question. How would god ever truly know it is god? What if god doubted it was really god and started to think that god was just having an elaborate trick played on it to make it think it really was god? If you just say, "well, god would know because he knows everything" then i would say god might be mistaken and hence would not really be god and ultimately god would then become confused since it couldn't figure out who the real god was. god's head would start to hurt and it would relieve its disembodied anguish by taking an immaterial gun and putting an immaterial bullet in its immaterial head.
larss
I'm watching some specialist videos
A bit cliché I know, but man cannot fathom Gods will. Why is there suffering? How would we know that there was no suffering if there was no suffering? The bible tells us that man was created in Gods image - that does not necessarily mean that we look like Him, but that we act and think like him too. We, as human beings, will look out for ourselves first, even if it does not always seem to be the case. We cull animals, not to eat, but to protect the species - e.g. Elephants are culled to keep numbers in certain areas to an optimum, as overpopulation will destroy their environment and consequently mean fewer or no elephants in the longer term. Given what we are doing to our own environment now, it should come as no surprise that God should cull some of the human race.
btw. These are not necessarily my beliefs, just thoughts based on the original post.
btw. These are not necessarily my beliefs, just thoughts based on the original post.
O.k., i understand they are not necessarily your beliefs, but i am going to respond anyway since they indeed could be someone's beliefs.
I think god's will is fathomable if you assume god is evil or indifferent. It makes perfect sense to say god has no will to stop Aids because indeed Aids does not stop by divine intervention. If you say the will is ultimately good in some sense we don't understand, I say that is nonsensical because I understand that suffering is bad and that there is no plan that should necessitate massive suffering from a god capable of creating an entire universe. To simply have faith that it all will work out in the end is to be quite ridiculous in not being able to come up with a good explanation for the suffering that plagues this planet and potentially this universe if there are aliens.
You ask, "How would we know that there was no suffering if there was no suffering." Maybe we wouldn't know, but we would know that what we are experiencing, pleasure/satisfaction, is good because it makes us feel good. Maybe god could give us a little pin prick every once in a while to let us know what it would be like to suffer. We wouldn't fully understand the magnitude of suffering from Aids, but god could tell us to imagine the pin prick intensified to the millionth power. Even if we couldn't imagine this, who cares? Suffering is not good anyway so i don't see how we should desire knowledge of it. We should be content in a world with no suffering and simply enjoying the sensations of pleasure in however we see fit based on our free will.
No, humans do not always look out for themselves first. That is a flat out lie. If people risk their lives to help others they are putting someone else in front of themselves in the scale of importance.
Animals are culled because humans think they can set themselves up as planetary dictator without realizing that our destruction of habitat plays a large role in why there may be a problem of elephant overpopulation. People don't consider this because they think they have a right to whimsically destroy natural habitat and then take over the control of whatever nature survives the initial onslaught like some warden in a prison.
God cull some of the human race? That shows god is evil since god presumably could have created conditions of life where culling would never even have to be considered yet alone implemented. And if there has to be culling, why is he picking on poor black people in Africa and other third world areas? Seems racist to me. Maybe god is a Nazi.
larss
I'm watching some specialist videos
Not a lie, maybe untrue, but not a lie. I would still say that on the whole, we look out for ourselves first and foremost - of course there are exceptions, but they are very few and far between. We live very much in a culture of "don't get involved". A good swimmer may dive in to a dangerous sea to save someone, but a poor or non-swimmer is very unlikely to, and not many good swimmers will (barring life guards to have equipment to help).
As to whether or not God is "Evil", we just cannot make that judgement. If you were to see a man killing animals without knowing the reason why, you could assume that he is "evil", whereas there can be good reasons for it (perhaps the animal has a contagious disease and is killing the one animal for the benefit of the rest). It is a big universe, and we are a very insignificant part of it, so trying to see the reasons behind any disease, be it Aids, Ebola, Bird 'flu or the common cold is just not possible.
If we take the premise that God has been around since before the start of creation (which He must have been to actually do the creation), then we can take it as read that He is in it for the long haul, and we have no idea of what he eventual plans (if any) actually are.
granted, risking one's life for others may be rare, but putting others in front of themselves in non-life risking scenarios could become more common if people's moral behavior improved. For example, if you have way more then you need, and someone in another part of the world has no where near what they need, you would be selfish and cruel to not help that suffering person with your excess of wealth. But look at the average person in a rich country and how much more they have then they need compared to how many people have little or nothing in Africa. It is sickening but i believe it could change to the point where people start putting others before themselves in non-life threatening scenarios. Who knows? Maybe even in life threatening scenarios.
the case of the diseased animal doesn't make it good to kill the animal. if you take an absolutist perspective on killing, like a pacifist animal rights activist would, they would never kill any animal. they recognize that one diseased animal may kill other healthy animals, but that is a process out of their control unless they do the wrong act of killing an animal.
If there is no observable reason for Aids, and if God says he loves you, and love means you help those who suffer when you have the ability to help, it is logical to conclude there is no good reason for Aids. To simply hope there is a good reason according to some twisted and unobservable definition of good is like hoping the sun won't rise tomorrow. It's ridiculous.
If he has no plans, he allows suffering and hence is evil. If he has a plan and it entails suffering, but it didn't have to, then he is evil by creating an evil plan entailing massive suffering. Is it not more reasonable to assume that the book of Job had it essentially right when it told us right to our faces that god wants you to suffer to test your faith? But what is the moral judgement of such a test? Pure evil. Why? Because for no observable reason is it necessary and for no logical reason is not suffering worse then suffering.
the problem with this is it seems to assume free will is more important then non-suffering. but this is problematic for it assumes no free will could exist simultaneously with no suffering. but free will in many things could exist simultaneously with no suffering. anyone who says you would have to be a robot with no suffering is not very good at thinking, because in no way does limitations on freedom imply abolition of freedom. Just like in society, you have limitations placed on your freedom to limit the potential suffering done to others. It really should be an easy concept for people to understand but somehow the apologists always come barking loudly when you bring god into the equation. They eternally yammer about free will without really understanding what they are talking about and without seriously considering the enormous magnitude of suffering that has existed, exists and will continue to exist. I consider it to be morally scandalous.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
Why would God stop the extinction of a species?
Why would God do anything for anyone who doesn't believe in him?
Libertarian?
Lucifer is not God's henchmen, he rebelled and was cast out.
The Pharaohs and Egyptians never worshipped God. They followed their self made idols.
If you have read the Bible the Kings of Israel were even forbidden to buy horses from Egypt.
That's one reason why the plagues were brought down on Egypt, idol worship.
God is jealous, it does say that in the Bible.
People have to use common sense and most don't or there wouldn't be wars, murders, and so on.
They used their free will to do evil. No one can blame God for someone choosing to do evil things.
Besides, people don't start tsunamis, they don't start volcanic eruptions, people don't start earthquakes and people didn't make diseases like the plague, AIDS, ebola, etc, they merely spread them.
Of course, if there were no god, then all of this wouldn't apply.
Aids was created by man. Look it up.
Also, look up HAARP they can control the weather.
I'm not saying every disaster is created by men, but some are.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
There's not? When did you find this out? :tongue:
Why are there never any threads on Buddha, Muhammad, Xenu/ Scientology, and so on?
There are too many threads like this and they never turn out well.
So, why not lock this thread? :hatsoff:
That statement alone tells us a lot about religion doesnt it. I wonder what people will be worshipping in 4 thousand years time. Maybe by then they'll have finally worked it out, that God does not matter, what matters is living your life for you and that blind faith is just ridiculous. I doubt it, but I'll be dead so what do I care.
How about you provide us with some proof there Will, you go on and on about there not being enough evidence for evolution to be true, but I've never seen you bring up one peice of evidence that categorically proves Gods existance.
Cough it up if you have it.
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
You could say the same exact thing about people who believe in God. Even if you showed them rock solid evidence that God didn't exist, they would still say you were wrong.
That is the exact reason why religious authorities don't have answers; they only have cliches.
"Pastor, can you prove that God exists?"
"You just have to have faith."
"If you believe...then God exists."
"Just read the Bible and you'll find your answer."
:rubbel:
Like the dinosaurs?
Because He's supposedly a loving and forgiving God. Plus, He apparently made all of us, so if we don't believe in Him, then it's His fault.
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
I doubt this planet has that much time left. If the earth is around in another fifty years it will be a miracle.
Yes, the Dinosaurs. But, with all the land that has yet to be explored not to mention the oceans who know what will be found.
It's not God's fault if people don't believe in him. They have themselves to blame. And, the fact that most people are self-centered.
I asked him
If you asked God, then he exists. :hatsoff:
i think it is probably impossible to prove god doesn't exist. think about the scenario of a multiverse. if we could prove there is another universe that has different laws of physics which in some way spawned our universe, believers would just say god created the other universe. if you say that the other universe has no identifiable beginning or end point and thus appears to have existed forever, someone will come around and say that god just makes it look that way and we can't fully understand and ultimately god made all the universes. some may start to lose faith in god if it could be proven there are other universes, but the line of "logic" i just laid down would proably be utilized by those who will believe regardless of the evidence.
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