Israeli Attacks Gaza Strip, Killing 200+

Ok, So the Israelis hold a peace fire, you know how long it took for Hamas to break it ? 2 HOURS. Fucking pansies. These peace fires just give Hamas time to regroup arms and stuff.

One solution = Wipe the whole fucking continent of Gaza clean off the face of this earth. (PLEASE take out Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan etc with it)
 

ChefChiTown

The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
One solution = Wipe the whole fucking continent of Gaza clean off the face of this earth. (PLEASE take out Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan etc with it)

Yes...that is going to solve the problem. Just eliminate a huge population off of the face of the earth. You, sir, have the right idea.

Although, I shouldn't be surprised. I mean, your username is a play-on-words for the word HOLOCAUST for fuck's sake.
 
Which is why ...

My concern was that Israel was using the first version. But from what I have read of the reports; so far, there is no factual evidence that the harmful one had been used.
The problem is that most people don't know jack. They "stretch" what the term "incendiary" means, and apply it to things that clearly are not. That's why 99% of media reports talk about it being "incendiary" and only 1% actually try to explain things.

I made an analogy to DU because it's a 100% similar application of political rhetoric. 99% of the articles on DU go after the same ignorance, with only 1% actually explaining various metals and interaction with the environment.

What you did here was just add to the rhetoric, although I'm glad you finally "came around" (even if only partially).
 
Re: Which is why ...

What you did here was just add to the rhetoric, although I'm glad you finally "came around" (even if only partially).

Look man, you disagree with me? Fine.

But your reply to me last night was judgemental and uncalled for.
I was not insulting Israel. I simply said 'IF' they were using
incendiary WP.

All you had to say was 'You're wrong and here's why'. Instead of 'where do you get this nonsense' and 'blah blah blah'.

If I'm so stupid, how is acting like that going to help educate me?

You should know that that kind of attack just gets people's back up and retards the 'learning process'.

I am asking you to please be less insulting the next time you want to 'correct' me; unless I was insulting first.

I don't wish to discuss it further in this thread. I am simply making a request of you.
 

Philbert

Banned
Re: Which is why ...

Look man, you disagree with me? Fine.

But your reply to me last night was judgemental and uncalled for.
I was not insulting Israel. I simply said 'IF' they were using
incendiary WP.

All you had to say was 'You're wrong and here's why'. Instead of 'where do you get this nonsense' and 'blah blah blah'.

If I'm so stupid, how is acting like that going to help educate me?

You should know that that kind of attack just gets people's back up and retards the 'learning process'.

I am asking you to please be less insulting the next time you want to 'correct' me; unless I was insulting first.

I don't wish to discuss it further in this thread. I am simply making a request of you.

(Somebody is sooo full of themselves...:rofl2:)
:nono:Making lame and rude comments with a small disclaimer that only fools Davy99 and maybe you.
You are way outa line, and you think saying ...(I exaggerate)... "F**k you, ya dumb**s retard. No offense intended, of course" makes you innocent of flaming and insults. Not!
Being in the Salvation Army doesn't qualify as being in the Military.:rofl:
 
Will somebody tell me why an invading army that is killing an 'enemy' (that has few if any guided weapons) at a ratio of over 50 to 1 needs to use white phosphorus in a city?

I hope this report isn't true.

The question is not why do they need to use it.
They are not using it because it is necessary but because it is desirable.

Is that really the defining issue anyway?
Debating minutiae such as this is a distraction. IMO

If a person doesn't care that Palestinian children are dying in the hundreds by gunfire and other methods, they are probably not likely to be swayed if the deaths were occurring as a result of WP.

If they already support the annihilation or subjugation of the Palestinian people, this will not be seen as a problem.

If they already believe for some reason that it is Israel who is being treated unfairly by the media simply because of how one of their weapons of choice has been misconstrued.

If they are already comfortable that ..

Israel is
  • The occupier and oppressor within Palestinian territory
  • In Violation of UN Resolutions
  • In Violation of the International Quartet's (United Nations, the European Union, Russia and the United States) Roadmap for Peace
  • In Violation of the Camp David Accords
  • In Violation of the Oslo Accords
  • The party forcing a further expansion of territory
  • Responsible for nearly a thousand deaths including hundreds of children
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY8QAgsp0Hc

--- all at a personal cost of (3) civilians and (10) soldiers in retaliation by those seeking to reclaim their land ...??


Somehow, Israel is still being presented by some as the primary victim in all of this?


Shouldn't supporters of the current Israeli military incursion defend this first as opposed to a specific munition of choice?
 
Great job!

If a person doesn't care that Palestinian children are dying in the hundreds by gunfire and other methods ...
If they already support the annihilation or subjugation of the Palestinian people ...
Oh, yeah, objectivity there. Sigh.
I seriously doubt most people understand WP and most chemical and physical science that is discussed.
At least that has been the case in the past, with simple regurgitations of what they read in the media.
 
Crisis in Gaza

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/pages/crisis-in-gaza

Ok, So the Israelis hold a peace fire, you know how long it took for Hamas to break it ? 2 HOURS. Fucking pansies. These peace fires just give Hamas time to regroup arms and stuff.

One solution = Wipe the whole fucking continent of Gaza clean off the face of this earth. (PLEASE take out Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan etc with it)

Shut the fuck up.

And its not a continent..

United Nations
Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs
FIELD UPDATE ON GAZA FROM THE HUMANITARIAN COORDINATOR

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_humanitarian_situation_report_2009_01_12_english.pdf

....the death toll reaching 919 victims, and more than 4263 injuries. among them are 277 children and 93 women............
 
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Re: Which is why ...

You are way outa line, and you think saying ...(I exaggerate)... "F**k you, ya dumb**s retard. No offense intended, of course" makes you innocent of flaming and insults. Not!
Well, the post you quoted was meant as a request, not an insult. Though I think Prof Voluptuary is a fat, flatulent git and there is no one on here with more then 1,000 posts whom I have less respect for then him. He's absolutely pathetic.
Now my comments directed at you were insults. You are an ignorant bigot.
Being in the Salvation Army doesn't qualify as being in the Military.:rofl:
Agreed.

Now I must take my leave as I feel a ban coming on.
 
A couple of things of note in the article.
White phosphorus is not considered a chemical weapon, and militaries are permitted under laws of warfare to use it in artillery shells, bombs and rockets to create smoke screens to hide troop movements as well as bright bursts in the air to illuminate battlefields at night.

Human Rights Watch has not been able to confirm whether there have been any civilian casualties from phosphorus. The group has a consultant working for it inside Gaza but he has been unable to move around due to the danger. Foreign journalists have also been barred from entering Gaza.
 
In Israel, a consensus that Gaza war is a just one
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/13/africa/13israel.php

I caught this article earlier today and thought it was fantastic. Really presents the issues well from the Israeli perspective. Also makes it pretty clear why Israel is pounding Hamas so much harder this time than any others. With a 90% approval rating, why stop?

The country's leaders, while seeking an arrangement to stop Hamas's ability to rearm, do not want a face-saving agreement. They want one that works, or else they want to continue the war until Hamas has lost either its rockets or its will to fire them.
 

Philbert

Banned
Re: Which is why ...

Well, the post you quoted was meant as a request, not an insult. Though I think Prof Voluptuary is a fat, flatulent git and there is no one on here with more then 1,000 posts whom I have less respect for then him. He's absolutely pathetic.
Now my comments directed at you were insults. You are an ignorant bigot.
Agreed.

Now I must take my leave as I feel a ban coming on.

Bye bye!:wave:
 
Re: Which is why ...

Though I think Prof Voluptuary is a fat, flatulent git and there is no one on here with more then 1,000 posts whom I have less respect for then him. He's absolutely pathetic.
And yet, in areas of my expertise (like defense), like McRocket before you, you've had to concede several realities after you finally read up on something. And then you fall back to the "oh, well, you're just well read, you're not an engineer" or whatever.

Who's pathetic here?

I'll fully admit I neither have a degree in economics or in other fields, nor experience in financial services that would make me an expert either. I admit those and admit when I'm mistaken. So when I provide those opinions, they are opinions. But when people like yourself repeated listen to the media and misrepresent basic chemistry, physics and other things, I have to laugh.

Whether it's the physics of the moon landings, the details of multi-mach speed interception, the structures and eventually collapse of the towers in 9/11 or countless discussions of weapons and weapons systems, it gets really old. You can fall back to the same statements that McRocket made, but it still doesn't remove the repeat, sound and -- as many people have noted -- likely experienced-based knowledge of a defense and former NASA engineer.

Again, who's pathetic here?

Now I'll leave you to backtrack on WP more. Otherwise, the next time you attend any ceremony with fireworks, ack, forget it, that's just argumentative. ;)
 

Philbert

Banned
Update: Gaza by the Numbers

Israel’s Humanitarian Aid to Gaza
396 truckloads of humanitarian aid that have been delivered through Israeli crossings into Gaza since the beginning of Operation Cast Lead, including basic food commodities, medication, medical supplies, blood units and donations by various governments and blood units.
80 truckloads of humanitarian aid expected to arrive in Gaza on Jan. 5
20 Palestinians evacuated to Israel for medical treatment (including two children)
800,000+ leaflets disseminated by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to Gaza civilians instructing them to stay away from terrorist and weapons storage sites
70+ times the IDF warned populated areas before conducting airstrikes
10,000 tons of aid transported into Gaza at the request of international organizations, the Palestinian Authority and various governments since the beginning of Operation Cast Lead. The World Food Program informed Israel last week that that it would cease shipment of food to Gaza because warehouses are at full capacity, with enough food to last two weeks.
0 wounded Palestinians allowed by Hamas to cross from Gaza into Egypt for treatment.


Iran-backed Hamas Rocket, Mortar Attacks and Nuclear Developments

10,000+ rockets and mortars fired from Gaza since 2001.
3,200+ rockets and mortars fired from Gaza in 2008 alone.
6,500+ rockets and mortars fired from Gaza since Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005.
538+ rockets and mortars fired from Gaza into Israeli territory during the ceasefire from June 19 to Dec. 19, 2008.
480 rockets and mortars fired from Gaza into Israel since Operation Cast Lead began Dec. 27.
28 deaths caused by rockets and mortars fired from Gaza into Israel since 2001. The dead include Israelis, Palestinians and foreign workers. Since the ceasefire ended, Iran-backed Palestinian groups in Gaza fired rockets and mortars that killed an Israeli-Arab construction worker and a mother of four who was seeking shelter in a bus station as a rocket warning siren sounded.
1,000+ people in Israel injured from rockets and mortars fired from Gaza since 2001, including Israelis, Palestinians and foreign workers. Since the start of Israel’s defensive operation in Gaza Dec. 27, 90 Israelis have been injured and at least 244 have been treated for shock.
20,000 Hamas terrorists Israel is targeting as part of its defensive operations
1,000,000 Israeli civilians Hamas is targeting and can reach.
15 seconds Israelis have to get to a bomb shelter once a warning siren has sounded.
8 years Israel has endured rockets and mortar fire from Gaza
3 mosques in Gaza used as weapons, ammunitions and explosives depots that were struck by the Israel Defense Forces during the operation in Gaza. The strikes occurred only at night and never during prayer times, to avoid civilian casualties.
4 UN Security Council resolutions passed since 2006 to try to stop Iran from enriching uranium.
5,000+ number of centrifuges operating in Iran to enrich uranium, the material used to produce a nuclear weapon.

What Israel Gave Up in Hopes of Peace - Gaza Withdrawal Aug. 2005

100% proportion of the Gaza Strip evacuated and handed over to the
Palestinians.
300 square miles of the West Bank evacuated.
21 Israeli settlements uprooted in the Gaza Strip.
4 Israeli settlements uprooted in the West Bank.
48 graves uprooted in Gaza’s former Gush Katif Cemetery, including six graves of area residents murdered by terrorists.
9,000 approximate number of Israelis, including 1,700 families, who lived in Gaza and the northern West Bank. All of them were moved out as part of the withdrawal.
38 synagogues dismantled in the Gaza Strip.
5,000 school-age children who had to find new schools.
42 daycare centers that were closed in the Gaza Strip.
36 kindergartens that were closed in the Gaza Strip.
7 elementary schools that were closed in the Gaza Strip.
3 high schools that were closed in the Gaza Strip.
320 mobile homes, ordered by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, to serve as temporary housing for settlers.
45,000 Israeli soldiers and policemen who participated in the Gaza withdrawal.
$1.7 billion the approximate cost to the Israeli government for the withdrawal initiative.
166 Israeli farmers who were moved out of Gaza.
800 cows, which comprised the second largest dairy farm in Israel, moved out of Gaza’s Gush Katif community.
$120 million value of flowers and produce exported annually from Gush Katif and lost following the evacuation.
1 zoo, the “Katifari,” that housed hundreds of animals and was moved.
10,000 people who were employed in agriculture and related industries in Gush Katif, including 5,000 Palestinians.
60% proportion of Israel's cherry tomato exports that came from the Gaza Strip. Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza extinguished this economic resource.
3.5 million square meters (almost 1,000 acres) of greenhouses abandoned in Gaza.
70 percentage of Israel's organic produce grown in Gaza – another economic resource lost in the evacuation.
60 percentage of herbs exported from Israel that came from Gush Katif.
15 percentage of Israel agricultural exports that originated in Gaza – exports lost following Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza.
$360,000 expected average compensation amount Israel expected to pay to relocate each family.
$870 million approximate cost for Israel to facilitate the resettlement of former West Bank and Gaza residents elsewhere in the country.
$500 million amount of money Israel's security establishment spent to relocate Israel Defense Forces bases outside the Gaza Strip and build new border crossing facilities.

After Israel’s evacuation from Gaza…

430,000 West Bank Palestinians able to move freely within and between Palestinian-controlled areas.
1 Israeli remaining in Gaza. Staff Sgt. Gilad Shalit was abducted from Israel on June 25, 2006 by Hamas in a bloody cross-border raid in which the terrorists also killed two IDF soldiers and wounded four others.
1.2 million Arabs who remained full and legal citizens of Israel. All Israeli citizens – Christians, Muslims, and Jews – have freedom of speech, religion, press, and the right to vote.
1.3 million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip many of them in Palestinian Authority-controlled refugee camps, who live under their own leaders.
820,000 Jewish refugees forced to flee without their belongings from Arab countries between 1947 and 1949, and who have never been compensated by Arab governments for their losses.
650,000 Arab refugees who left Israel from 1947-1949 and still need Palestinian leaders who will end terrorism and the culture of hate.

Israel’s withdrawal from four northern West Bank settlements created an area more than twice the size of Gaza’s 140 square miles under Palestinian control and devoid of any Israeli presence.

(I guess they got the "Israeli presence" they were hoping for now...!)
 
... What Israel Gave Up in Hopes of Peace - Gaza Withdrawal Aug. 2005 ...
People quickly forget all that Israel has "given up" since W.'s administration took office. Unlike the Clinton administration, who did little more than talk, the W. administration pushed hard for Israel to make concessions, many of which they did -- actual land forfeiture and countless other concessions.

And what has that gotten Israel? Little. Hamas still plays their game. People die as a result.

So for those of you that wonder why Israel and W.'s administration really doesn't care for "Hamas dictated peace" anymore, a little, even just recent history lesson should tell you a lot. Israel gives up land, concessions, nothing changes except the rocket fire comes from a much closer distance.

BTW, some interesting statistics on American viewpoints:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel's_unilateral_disengagement_plan#American_opinions

The default isn't to just side with Israel. Most Americans honestly want to see peaceful co-existence. The problem is that every time Israel makes major land and other concessions, the result is just the same rocket fire (build up supply during peace, launch when you have enough, stop when you run out, resupply again after peace, repeat), only closer in the land cases. Reverting to pre-1948 isn't going to happen, and some people will not stop and die trying to revert to such.

I think you're going to see similar attitudes with the Obama administration. He may have been against Iraq, but he is not in the mood for countries to dick him around. See his statements on Afghanistan, Pakistan, Hamas, Hezbolla, etc... We'll see in a week, but I think people will quickly realize Obama is not a pacifist like many assume. He'll try some things early on, but he'll either avoid issues or end up adopting many W. administration stances already in place -- provide concessions, but breaking the agreement also breaks the concessions.
 
430,000 West Bank Palestinians able to move freely within and between Palestinian-controlled areas.

West Bank Population= 2,407,681 / Palestinian and Arab = 83% - 1,998,375 / (CIA Factbook)
Assuming your figure is accurate, I am sure that the 21% of West Bank Palestinians appreciate the ability to move "freely" within their own territory... :rolleyes:


Update: Gaza by the Numbers

What Israel Gave Up in Hopes of Peace - Gaza Withdrawal Aug. 2005

100% proportion of the Gaza Strip evacuated and handed over to the
Palestinians.
300 square miles of the West Bank evacuated.
21 Israeli settlements uprooted in the Gaza Strip.
4 Israeli settlements uprooted in the West Bank.
9,000 approximate number of Israelis, including 1,700 families, who lived in Gaza and the northern West Bank. All of them were moved out as part of the withdrawal.
38 synagogues dismantled in the Gaza Strip.
45,000 Israeli soldiers and policemen who participated in the Gaza withdrawal.....

Israel’s withdrawal from four northern West Bank settlements created an area ... devoid of any Israeli presence.

(I guess they got the "Israeli presence" they were hoping for now...!)

The simple fact is - it is easy to be generous with someone else's property or territory taken by force. To present this as generosity, indicates a biased mindset and is incomplete and misguided to say the least.

This should be easy enough to understand by itself, but in case it is not...

If I take your house and kill members of your family (Israel 1967 6-Day War and subsequent occupation of territory), then in my abundant "desire for peace" return 15% of your house to you - I can then list the expenses I went through to return 15% of your property to you as evidence of my "pain and suffering"?? Sounds great.

If you complain that that isn't fair, I can say you have "no desire for peace" and take that 15% back and later offer to return it to you again as another act of "great benevolent concession". It's a win-win for me. That way I can gain territory and still be the victim in search of peace despite your irrational violent opposition. Sounds great.


People quickly forget all that Israel has "given up" ... to make concessions, many of which they did -- actual land forfeiture and countless other concessions.

And what has that gotten Israel? Little. Hamas still plays their game. People die as a result.

More of the same. I have given back "part" of what I stole from you (with the intention of taking it back again?) - and dammit what thanks do I get??


...even just recent history lesson should tell you a lot. Israel gives up land, concessions, nothing changes except the rocket fire comes from a much closer distance.

thanks for the history lesson ... but is your lesson complete? I understand why a "recent" history lesson is all you want to give to make your point...but...
Is 8 years of history all you would like people to see? ... Let's review: Your lesson shows us that 1) the Palestinians shot rockets and 2) Israel gave land and made concessions. Forget the rest. Hush now. Don't mention whose land is being given back. Don't mention why the rockets are being fired (in total no more dangerous than 1 car accident). Don't mention that land is again being taken to perhaps be offered again in a great act of benevolence.


Why doesn't Israel sign an agreement to give all of the Palestinian land back and return to pre-1967 boundaries as required by international law? - after all it was taken by force in violation of a litany of International Resolutions, agreements and accords.... What is the reasoning?

Reverting to pre-1948 isn't going to happen...
(Assuming you mean pre-1967 as that is what has been asked for even by members of Hamas).

That "just isn't going to happen." That's all? Pure obstinance? Heels dug in. A willful dismissal to return to ones own borders. No justification, just simple refusal.

Unfortunately, many Israelis refuse to realize that they create their own tension and perpetuate their own negative image in the Arab world by occupying the territory of others - and when they appeal to groups like Hamas to simply "stop firing rockets in order to force us to return your land", they only hear their own echo - "That just isn't going to happen."
 
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