Israeli Attacks Gaza Strip, Killing 200+

[Ceska]

Re: I find it difficult to believe ...

Actually, Egypt's change is due largely to the US under the Carter administration, getting them to recognize Israel. I'll always praise and credit Carter for doing that.

I think you're views on Israel are very 1-sided.

Aren't you also being a bit one-sided?
You continue to avoid any recognition of the continued occupation and oppression exercised by Israel on the Palestinian people. This is an enormous point to overlook. So much so that it could lead someone to accuse you of engaging in the type of one-sided rhetoric you condemn.

This is certainly a significant element that lead bandanoantri to call Israel "as guilty" as groups such as Hamas. (to which you disagree) In fact, Carter would go further, he would say in this particular engagement Israel bears a greater responsibility.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfG8Mfg7TWw&feature=related



The other excellent point he makes is that the debate is actually MORE robust in Israel than in the United States. In most cases, it is not the Palestinian cause that benefits from sympathetic bias (in the U.S.) but Israel. In the United States there is a great failure to report on the atrocities regarding the Palestinians or recognize simple facts (such as that Israel is the occupier) and that "there is no doubt ... a strong aversion to criticizing Israel in this country. I wouldn't say it is all because of intimidation, but that is one factor".

 

[LBP 76]

Re: I find it difficult to believe ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfG8Mfg7TWw&feature=related

A GREAT link, imo.

 

[Ceska]

Re: I find it difficult to believe ...

A GREAT link, imo.

another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY8QAgsp0Hc

 

[LBP 76]

Re: I find it difficult to believe ...

another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY8QAgsp0Hc

Even better (imo).

 

[Member2019]

Actually ...

[*]To live in peace where? If the Palestinians had the more powerful military and took by force and occupied Haifa, Nazareth, Jerusalem or Tel Aviv in violation of UN charter, would the Israeli's let them "live in peace"? Would you grant the Palestinians the same "fundamental right" in that case?

Actually, they would probably just find somewhere else and fight for the right to establish a nation there. The question would then be where?

As far as Israel's military commanders being against a cease-fire, that's expected. Once you start an operation, you don't stop until you're finished. Otherwise, it's useless.

That was a hard lesson the US learned in Vietnam after LBJ paused bombing in the hope they opposition would come back to the bargaining table. All it did was allow the NVA and VC to move major weapons and other capabilities under no threat of bombing.

Of course, we kinda fucked that up in 1991 though.

 

[guest111]

Gaza under fire despite truce call
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200919819627784.html

Israel 'shelled Gaza civilians'
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200919135323309745.html

US congress votes to back Israel
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/01/20091920212870205.html

UN agency to resume Gaza aid work
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7821321.stm

 

[BlueBalls]

I think I heard the Palistinian death count is now up to 770 people.

250 of those deaths being children.


There really isnt any need for further comment is there.

 

[Ceska]

There really isnt any need for further comment is there.

Except to note that your posts and rep power are both at exactly 7033.
Pretty neat trick. Keep it up.

 

[Baill Inneraora]

Gaza under fire despite truce call
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200919819627784.html

Israel 'shelled Gaza civilians'
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200919135323309745.html

US congress votes to back Israel
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/01/20091920212870205.html

UN agency to resume Gaza aid work
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7821321.stm

Al Jeezra is not exactly a reliable, un biased news source.

 

[LBP 76]

I think I heard the Palistinian death count is now up to 770 people.

250 of those deaths being children.


There really isnt any need for further comment is there.

Apparently it's over 800 now. And the UN confirms the 250 dead Palestinian children number.

And still Israel keeps pounding the Gaza Strip.

How many innocent Palestinian children does the Israeli Defence Forces have to (unwantingly) kill before their leaders say 'Enough; this just isn't worth it. We'll have to find another way.'?

Or does such a number even exist?

 

[testdrive]

... religion is just one weapon used by the Islamic Radicals to keep the momentum going.

notice that radical word... because i'm a Moslem...and i dont think killing people from other religion is good..

i think people in Palestine and Israel just lost their sense of apology and forgiveness...they just have word "revenge" in their head...

let's make the world free from wars...starting from ourselves,,try to forgiving peoples for their mistakes...and get rid off the word "revenge" from our head..

warm regards from Indonesia...

 

[LBP 76]

notice that radical word... because i'm a Moslem...and i dont think killing people from other religion is good..

i think people in Palestine and Israel just lost their sense of apology and forgiveness...they just have word "revenge" in their head...

let's make the world free from wars...starting from ourselves,,try to forgiving peoples for their mistakes...and get rid off the word "revenge" from our head..

warm regards from Indonesia...

Warm regards.

:hatsoff:

 

[Philbert]

notice that radical word... because i'm a Moslem...and i dont think killing people from other religion is good..

i think people in Palestine and Israel just lost their sense of apology and forgiveness...they just have word "revenge" in their head...

let's make the world free from wars...starting from ourselves,,try to forgiving peoples for their mistakes...and get rid off the word "revenge" from our head..

warm regards from Indonesia...

Salaam Aleikum.

I meet every day, in my job, people from Pakistan, Mauritania, India, Saudi Arabia...(my neighbor and good friend is a Palestinian from Israel); we have some time to talk, and if the person seems educated and calm I listen to their opinions on the world's problem with Islam both radical and fundamentalist.
Many individuals feel as you stated, and many have friends from opposite countries and faiths here in the US (my neighbor's apt is full most of the time with Israeli Jews and Muslims, Iranians, many people from many countries and faiths).
At home many follow the mood of the larger groups, where upwards of 50% of Islamic populations around the world approve of Al Qadea and Hamas's goals and methods.
I have always had a respect for Islam as practiced by a truly religious person; it seems the truly religious (those with God in their hearts, not just on their lips) are the best people I have met, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever.
Unfortunately that is a rare occasion.

 

[bodie54]

How many innocent Palestinian children does the Israeli Defence Forces have to (unwantingly) kill before their leaders say 'Enough; this just isn't worth it. We'll have to find another way.'?

Or does such a number even exist?

I promised myself I'd stay out of this thread, but before I do:

How many Palestian children does Hamas have to put in harm's way before they say 'Enough; this just isn't worth it. We have to put our children's well being ahead of our hatred for Israel'.

Or does such a number even exist?

 

[Philbert]

I promised myself I'd stay out of this thread, but before I do:

How many Palestian children does Hamas have to put in harm's way before they say 'Enough; this just isn't worth it. We have to put our children's well being ahead of our hatred for Israel'.

Or does such a number even exist?

It does not.
One of the main tenets of Islam is that shedding a drop of blood for Islam (martyrdom) sends you directly to sit at the feet of the prophet Mohammed in Paradise, and you are interceding for your family as well; ie, Mom goes directly to the same place when she dies no matter what she does beforehand.
Great system for recruiting, since the early days of Islam.

They see the dead kids and old folks as martyrs, and think they should be happy to die for the "cause".
They are...so everyone else should be.

 

[LBP 76]

I promised myself I'd stay out of this thread, but before I do:

How many Palestian children does Hamas have to put in harm's way before they say 'Enough; this just isn't worth it. We have to put our children's well being ahead of our hatred for Israel'.

Or does such a number even exist?

So what you, and no doubt MANY people, are saying is:

that the Hamas rocket attacks that have killed 17 innocent civilian Israeli's since 2001 (3 per year, apparently) must be stopped.
And if the cost of doing that is 800+ Palestinian's killed (including 250+ children); then that is acceptable.
And that Israel has no choice but to drop bombs and fire howitzers into crowded population centers. And that the blame for these death's is with Hamas; that Israel must kill these people to protect it's citizens.


I would think that to kill hundreds of children to save a dozen children would never be acceptable.
But I guess fear and hate allows humans to devalue fellow humans.

 

[LBP 76]

It does not.
One of the main tenets of Islam is that shedding a drop of blood for Islam (martyrdom) sends you directly to sit at the feet of the prophet Mohammed in Paradise, and you are interceding for your family as well; ie, Mom goes directly to the same place when she dies no matter what she does beforehand.
Great system for recruiting, since the early days of Islam.

They see the dead kids and old folks as martyrs, and think they should be happy to die for the "cause".
They are...so everyone else should be.

Strange...the mother's of those dead Palestinian children don't look too happy to me. In fact, they look very upset.

I guess they just don't understand Islam as well as you think you do.

 

[bodie54]

So what you, and no doubt MANY people, are saying is:

I've had my say over multiple posts on this thread, including addressing the numbers game, and what I perceive as the lynchpin in this situation. Posting to this thread has made me alternately angry and sad, so I will now cease doing so. I hope for a peaceful resolution to the conflict. So long as Hamas is involved, I see virtually no possibility of that.

Be well :hatsoff:

 

[LBP 76]

I've had my say over multiple posts on this thread, including addressing the numbers game, and what I perceive as the lynchpin in this situation. Posting to this thread has made me alternately angry and sad, so I will now cease doing so. I hope for a peaceful resolution to the conflict. So long as Hamas is involved, I see virtually no possibility of that.

Be well :hatsoff:

I wish you well also.

:hatsoff:

 

[GabberMan]

Last night's Newsnight on BBC2:

About the first 25 minuntes are relevant - report from the region from Mark Urban, a fairly good interview with Tony Blair (love him or hate him, let's not forget that this is the "poodle" who helped broker the Iraq war, although I think even the old British cliche "Bulldog" is probably an understatement) and a short feature on the media/propaganda war inside and outside Gaza. It's quite a good episode, but won't be online forever so watch while you can...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00gnjwz