Israeli Attacks Gaza Strip, Killing 200+

[Facetious]

There are too many years of ingrained, generational animosity developed against the state of Israel to think that there will ever be any real, immediate and meaningful atmosphere of peace between these two.

On another note - What were the real intentions of the UN, post WWII and pre '48 ? Didn't this elite league of nations know, without any uncertainty, that a powder keg was about to be created ?
I often wonder.

 

[Wickedclown]

There are too many years of ingrained, generational animosity developed against the state of Israel to think that there will ever be any real, immediate and meaningful atmosphere of peace between these two.

On another note - What were the real intentions of the UN, post WWII and pre '48 ? Didn't this elite league of nations know, without any uncertainty, that a powder keg was about to be created ?
I often wonder.

Now thats a really good point. Back then it had to be possible to find a diplomatic and peaceful solution to establish a little state called Israel without waging a war. This little stripe of land lacks, in comparison, ressources in such a large scale that you could call it simply sand. I think it is just a "long term operation" of the weapon industry. For this industry it´s so easy to exploit the poor and the fanatic. It´s like in "1984": War must never end. Excuse my bad grammar, i´m a native "biertrinker" :glugglug:

 

[davey99]

Why shouldn't the USA support and aid ISRAEL when the whole middle east region hates and wants Israel erased from the map??? so ISRAEL can't have any allies??? besides like I said in another thread concerning this same subject!! RUSSIA and CHINA both aid, fund, support, trade, and correspond with KNOWN terrorist states in the middle east and all over the globe!! so why is the USA wrong too support ISRAEL???

!

The defend them because Israel is the only Democratic State in the middle east. The US has no control in the middle east, not even Iraq. Israel is there only way of control.

So, it's not a friendship as it is a strategy for the US. When there's a second Democratic state, nobody will tolerate Israels massive amounts of murder.

Oh, and (imo) because you brought up that there a Jewish state. Just because 6 million of them were murdered doesn't give the a fucking right to walk around stomping on the people they hate.

Also, as you pointed out about Russia and China. The US aided, Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama (Noriega). It's called the weapons trade, and good or bad, they all trade with one another.

 

[Marlo Manson]

The defend them because Israel is the only Democratic State in the middle east. The US has no control in the middle east, not even Iraq. Israel is there only way of control.

So, it's not a friendship as it is a strategy for the US. When there's a second Democratic state, nobody will tolerate Israels massive amounts of murder.

Oh, and (imo) because you brought up that there a Jewish state. Just because 6 million of them were murdered doesn't give the a fucking right to walk around stomping on the people they hate.

Also, as you pointed out about Russia and China. The US aided, Iraq, Afghanistan, Panama (Noriega). It's called the weapons trade, and good or bad, they all trade with one another.

The palestinians provoke the israeli's, just because the palestinians practive cowardly wartime tatics via mixing themselves amongst their civilian population, ie. the neighborhoods, schools, mosques, hospitals, too ADD to the total of victims and causalities!!

The holocaust has nothing to do with what hamas and the rest of the middleeast, do to intiate israeli retaliation, the israeli's have every right too defend their land whether or not they are angry or have hate towards anybody but the german gustapo!!

If the UN determined the israeli's deserved their own state and land in 67 then so be it!!! it was the UN not israel invading and overtaking the land without any justification!! :dunno:

 

[Dawn]

On another note - What were the real intentions of the UN, post WWII and pre '48 ? Didn't this elite league of nations know, without any uncertainty, that a powder keg was about to be created ?
I often wonder.

Same here. I can't see how they haven't seen what was coming.

It's also very interresting to not see more people linking the current conflicts to that era. It's actually the only way to understand the arab point of view - and understanding doesnt mean supporting. Neglecting that part of History is serving several agendas in that conflict...

In this eye for eye minding, it's easy to understand why both sides are litterally blind. Get rid of those blind extremists and maybe... maybe common citizens will be able to live normal lives, with the most respectables aspirations outside of the irrationality of religion/politic: founding a family, live in peace, work to better their lifes. From a civilization to another, it's the most common way to live - and if any is threatened, there will always be radical religious or political leaders to build-up fanatism on the masses...

Of course, i blame the Hamas terrorists. Like we could blame the IRA terrorists some years ago in another conflict. But exactly like the IRA, the Hamas have also a legitimate political branch.

I guess when each side will be fed up with the mournings of their child, wives, cousins, brothers, friends and sisters... then maybe a durable peace will be possible.

Untill then... well... pretty much any action is just throwing more oil on the fire. Justified or not, i don't care. It serve only the purpose and agenda of both sides radical leaders in a never ending vicious circle of mutual destruction.

Is there anyone who seriously think that the current Isreal action will end the conflict instead of nurturing more terrorists?

 

[Friday on my mind]

There are too many years of ingrained, generational animosity developed against the state of Israel to think that there will ever be any real, immediate and meaningful atmosphere of peace between these two.

On another note - What were the real intentions of the UN, post WWII and pre '48 ? Didn't this elite league of nations know, without any uncertainty, that a powder keg was about to be created ?
I often wonder.

While it may have been under the banner of the UN this was really all created by the western powers namely the UK and the USA.I guess it seemed like the only solution to what the situation was at the time.Besides just who was really going to say no you can't do that to them(the US and UK).The US was clearly the dominant country coming out of the war,it was the only major participant in WW2 who came out of it without having suffered any damage domestically.All the rest even the UK took years to really recover from the war.As a historian said in the great doucmentary "world at war" ,the europeans had a civil war which none of them really was the victor in as much as the US was,not the brits or the even the russians or the french and certainly not the germans. And as to why didn't they think about the future, who does that lol.When the brits signed a 99 year lease for Hong Kong I'm sure the attitude was heck let those people of the future worry about that ,well all be long gone within 99 years.

 

[Facetious]

C'mon, Friday !

Can't you EVER offer write anything free of suggestion that every world problem stems from the heart of America ? Why so contemptuous ? Why so apologist ? Need a nation in clear victory reduce itself to a level of appeasement ? Have you reassigned your citizenship, proper ?

Hell NO this nation, America, U.S.A., ussa, or however you would like to reference it, isn't perfect, so quit already with the incessant country bash as you do, with all of your subtle modifiers and re-accounting of the historical !

I guess that it's those many years of ingrained generational hatred and historical tweak that's got you so . . . :crash:

:bowdown: gracias comrade




Just 'rufflin your feathers
:jester: j/k :rofl2:

 

[guest111]

Guest111, you didn't bring up liberal vs. conservative ... I did. I was trying to be honest about my sources.

Update: Last figure I heard was 280 rockets launched into Israel in the last 7 days.

Hahaha. I never said I brought it up, I know you did and I said it..
I'm just saying, I'm sick of seeing these type of conversations always turn into this. Its so simplistic and general, its not even what we were even talking about.
I'm willing to bet, You probably try to point a finger at so called "liberal" organizations any opportunity you have, even if its completely unrelated and if the subject is much more complex then just that.
So thanks for misreading my post for the 3rd time.

And as far as the UN resolutions, most of them were in reason. If you look at them, a lot of them have to do with the settlements in the West bank, The walls(and sniper towers) in The West Bank and Gaza, and the Occupation of both territories.


And as far as the rockets being launched into Israel, You are aware ground forces went into Gaza? Did you honestly expect them invading was going to end the cycle of violence? especially knowing this conflicts history?
So obviously if they are still shooting rockets, and if it has escalated, then what Israel is doing isnt really working.....
That point you made doesn't do anything..

Israel only has 4 casualties.
Palestinians have now 548 (100 since Saturday). I guess the rule "If 1 Israeli die, 10 Palestinians will also die" has turned into, "If 1 Israelis die, 137 Palestinians will die"
They have killed more people then Hamas has done in 5 years....And i got the casualty numbers from Israeli defense ministers site.

Like i said before, Is 1 Israeli worth 10 Palestinians, let alone 100?

 

[guest111]

Back to posting articles..

Civilian deaths mount in Gaza war

At least 548 people have been killed in the territory in the last 10 days, with at least 100 deaths reported since the Israeli ground offensive began on Saturday.

Among the dead on Monday was a family of seven from Shati refugee camp, who were killed by Israeli navy shelling.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200915143237167997.html


Casualties rise in Gaza offensive

Palestinian medical officials say at least 90 people, including many civilians and 26 children, have died since Israel's ground assault began.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812286.stm


Fighting rages in Gaza

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200915174731392162.html


Gaza diplomacy gathers pace

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/20091513306896287.html

 

[jamrak]

I guess the rule "If 1 Israeli die, 10 Palestinians will also die" has turned into, "If 1 Israelis die, 137 Palestinians will die"

If Hamas is dumb enough to understand 1 to 10 proportion, maybe this will make them more clever?

They need to understand that with their stupid fanatism and attacks they bring suffer and pain to their own nation and country.

How more deaths they want? 10 victims was not enough to Hamas. They keep on attacking Israel with idiotic determination. Now there are more than 500 victims. If they won't learn this lesson, and continue attack Israel next time it might be 1000. What does it mean? It mean only one thing: palestinian people need to get rid of Hamas and co asap. They should not support those, who cause fire on them.

 

[Friday on my mind]

C'mon, Friday !

Can't you EVER offer write anything free of suggestion that every world problem stems from the heart of America ? Why so contemptuous ? Why so apologist ? Need a nation in clear victory reduce itself to a level of appeasement ? Have you reassigned your citizenship, proper ?

Hell NO this nation, America, U.S.A., ussa, or however you would like to reference it, isn't perfect, so quit already with the incessant country bash as you do, with all of your subtle modifiers and re-accounting of the historical !

I guess that it's those many years of ingrained generational hatred and historical tweak that's got you so . . . :crash:

:bowdown: gracias comrade




Just 'rufflin your feathers
:jester: j/k :rofl2:

Thats the difference between us, I actually know the history of such things lol.And my post was not really very judgemental of whether it was right or wrong, as Joe Friday would say "Just the facts".The English the former holders of the title of dominant western power were probably more responsible for the outcome of what was known as palestine which they had held as colonies once.The US as the new dominant power just went along.But this is how it goes with such things,in the time of the roman empire ,many actions and outcomes in the world were squarely on them or had to be approved by them,thats how dominant powers operate.
But before you get the flags out and the love it or leave it signs,did I not say given the situation it seemed like the only solution to the situation?
It was you that were infering some sort of negative motivation supposedly according to you coming from the UN.I guess with the implication that it was really an international decision and others than the major western powers really had much role in it.I was just correcting that misconception.
You and others here really make me laugh with your oh so obvious biases in these threads and debates against all things that might not conform to your worshipping of all things american or anglo white for that matter.Everybody else,mexicans,arabs,non capitalists,china and on and on and on are to be considered sinister and to blame as though their really are big differences in humans and in their motivations,desires,fears,hopes ,hates etc.
People are what they are and they are alike all over IMO.

 

[Member2019]

I'm honestly tired of the grandstanding ...

The one thing I love about the US is that we all have been wronged, yet the great majority of us find some way to live together and not blame each other for what someone else did, regardless of their affiliation with those who wronged us, possibly far more recently than 50 years ago. Hell, American Indians, Hawaiians, I could go on and on.

I'm also tired of Syria and Iran. There's not a weapons that isn't bought by either country that isn't in the hands of state ignored militants within 45 days of purchase. Any investigation of any EU sold weapon to either Syria or Iran, two states that are on the US embargo list for a reason, always ends up in Hamas, Hezbolla, Iraq Insurgency or other hands within 2 months. I've been reading up a lot on the list of this, and it gets old.

No "cease fire" will do jack until people stop the grandstanding and actually bring about some sort of arrangement that will actually result in some sort of co-existence.

I'm also tired of the blame US bullshit. It won't change with Obama any more than it did not with Clinton (people have short memories it seems). I'm 100% for an 100% reversal of the 52 year US policy since the Suez Incident, the US should pull back to the Americas and let the EU fend for its resources. We have almost everything we need in the American continents, unlike the EU does without the US military security in the Gulf (which is why France and the UK were able to shrink their militaries after the Suez, and after they were kicked out of every former colony for France -- as I warn every French colleague of mine who begs for mercy after they make the mistake of critizing the US from their hypocrisy).

The US has set three (3) real terms and until Hamas and Israel want to actually met them, we're done trying to get the two to play games. I think you'll continue to see a similar policy under Obama, much like W.'s policies were a continuation of Clinton's, Bush Sr. before that, etc...

 

[guest111]

Israel closes in on Gaza City

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/20091603745328330.html


Gaza horrors sow seeds for future violence

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/05/gaza.children/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Fighting flares outside Gaza City
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812833.stm


UN: Humanitarian crisis worsening

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/20091604547963392.html



Arab ministers hold UN Gaza talks

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/01/20091522052418539.html


United Nations
Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs
SITUATION REPORT FROM THE HUMANITARIAN COORDINATOR

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ocha_opt_gaza_situation_report_2009_01_05_english.pdf

 

[Dawn]

If Hamas is dumb enough to understand 1 to 10 proportion, maybe this will make them more clever?

They need to understand that with their stupid fanatism and attacks they bring suffer and pain to their own nation and country.

How more deaths they want? 10 victims was not enough to Hamas. They keep on attacking Israel with idiotic determination. Now there are more than 500 victims. If they won't learn this lesson, and continue attack Israel next time it might be 1000. What does it mean? It mean only one thing: palestinian people need to get rid of Hamas and co asap. They should not support those, who cause fire on them.

Lessons? Kill more?

You do realise we are talking about human lives, right? Civilian casualities, right? It's not even collateral damage there...

What does your way of thinking make you any different than a terrorist? Because you consider yourself being the good guy in the story?

Just follow your own logic untill the end. Why bothering killing just some of them while everybody and his dog knows that it won't give anyone any lessons. It never have given any lessons in History... You want to get peace that way? Just kill them all - you will have peace.

 

[jamrak]

What does your way of thinking make you any different than a terrorist? Because you consider yourself being the good guy in the story?

Difference is very big:
Israel do not want this war. They know how to live normal peaceful life, and if Hamas won't attack them, they would not hit them back. As for the terrorists, they are those, who bring war and starvation.

When it comes to terrorists, yes, you need to kill them all, or at least make them stop their activity by killing half of them.

Civilian victims are not the target of Israel attacks. It is unavoidable outcome of any war. And only Hamas is guilty that this war happaned - they provoked it. And again this is the big difference between terrorists and Israel: terrorists have intention to attack civilians, while Israel aim is to attack Hamas fighters only.

Hamas is just cynicaly using civilians as a shield, hoping that it will help them to avoid punishment.

Does that make sense?

 

[Lolocaust]

Lessons? Kill more?

You do realise we are talking about human lives, right? Civilian casualities, right? It's not even collateral damage there...

What does your way of thinking make you any different than a terrorist? Because you consider yourself being the good guy in the story?

Just follow your own logic untill the end. Why bothering killing just some of them while everybody and his dog knows that it won't give anyone any lessons. It never have given any lessons in History... You want to get peace that way? Just kill them all - you will have peace.

"In war there are no civilians"

Give it 3 years and these kids will grow up to become Hamas troops. The women are just as bad... Instead of standing out on the streets crying and screaming awhawlhalwhlahlawhlahl Why don't you tell the Israeli authorities where the fuck hamas are getting their equipment from, Who thier leaders are and where their leaders are, And don't fucking tell me they dont know because they all have their hands in the fucking cookie jar.

 

[assholebythedoor]

"In war there are no civilians"

Give it 3 years and these kids will grow up to become Hamas troops. The women are just as bad... Instead of standing out on the streets crying and screaming awhawlhalwhlahlawhlahl Why don't you tell the Israeli authorities where the fuck hamas are getting their equipment from, Who thier leaders are and where their leaders are, And don't fucking tell me they dont know because they all have their hands in the fucking cookie jar.

shut up you don't know what your talking about. your talking like an idiot. Its called the prencibles of War. AYou shouldn't even of said that. your a disgrace and you know it. your words say a lot more then your actions. And your actions are not even worth a comment. Stupid people like you should get deported. To a stupid colony, where all the other stupid people lingo and hang out. How amazing is that? Since if that was to happen only a handful of people would be left in the United States.

 

[Lolocaust]

There are no principles of war, You want to dress your soldiers up as clowns and give them water pistols instead of real guns ? Fucking pansy. I think Israel should just carpet bomb the Palestinians back into the fucking stone age. That way you deal with the current problem, And the future problem, All in one (Read - *5000*) 500kg Bombs.

 

[GabberMan]

There are no principles of war, You want to dress your soldiers up as clowns and give them water pistols instead of real guns ? Fucking pansy. I think Israel should just carpet bomb the Palestinians back into the fucking stone age. That way you deal with the current problem, And the future problem, All in one (Read - *5000*) 500kg Bombs.

I don't wholly agree. Fatah is more secular and doing much better in dealing with Israel than their religious-nut counterparts Hamas. I listened to a good interview with Yonatan Shapira (former IAF captain) today who said that he thinks Israel is setting itself up for much greater problems in the future, and while he doesn't like Hamas (I'm sure!) it's still not wholly representative of all Israelis (and other folk for the future of Israel elsewhere) that this assault is a good thing.

 

[tdomaster]

i just leave this here

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