If you could forfeit your life to prevent 9/11 from ever happening, would you do it?
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lordvader1 said:
first of all..Arabas are not crazy...generalizations are so bad
and when extremists appear there is a cause...i must remind that USA supported Bin-Laden in afganisthan war against CCCP and Saddam in Iran-Iraq war????...when they became extremists? when USA stopped giving they money... you should find better friends,guys....
And about Lebanon...is a shame what Israel is doing and is more a shame the attitude of USA in the security council of the UNO ... so don´t feel strange when arabs hates you...
Kisses:
Eva
PS-it would be kinda funny if it wasn´t terrible watching old movies like RAMBO III when they called talibans warriors of liberty... USA created the problem and now the rest of the world have to pay for it ... very fair... i hate idiot leaders of the "free" world (btw Iran is more democrathic than Saudi Arabia why then you support SAudi Arabia if your goal is supproting democracy in the zone??????? ) don´t make me laugh
PPS-the most terrible thing is that you still believe your president... i would not accept haveing a president who is above the normal IQ level ...
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Iamforever
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Re: If you could forfeit your life to prevent 9/11 from ever happening, would you do
you live up to your name.GENIUS said:
Iamforever
Banned
Re: If you could forfeit your life to prevent 9/11 from ever happening, would you do
so according to this, it was about the money. thats funny, i dont think its about money. its not about oil. its about respect. the muslims over there cant even run their countries without outside interference. how would you feel if someone came and forced their presence on you? on a side thought, just because i think i understand why they are pissed, doesnt mean i like them.
EvaForU said:
so according to this, it was about the money. thats funny, i dont think its about money. its not about oil. its about respect. the muslims over there cant even run their countries without outside interference. how would you feel if someone came and forced their presence on you? on a side thought, just because i think i understand why they are pissed, doesnt mean i like them.
********** said:
the main people voted him and your gobernement represents you...that´s democracy...so when i say "don´t be surprised why they hate you" is because for arab menthality the leaders of a country represent the entire people..thats why they hate you in general,because you dont stop your leaders...
there was strikes against the wars,meetings,etc??? how many people was there in the meeitngs against war in USA??? less than in any other part of the world
are you telling somewhere and doing prostest against what your gobernement is doing in the council of security of the UNO to block the resolutions to make Israel stop`those horrible attacks agains innocent people??? NO ... NO and NO...
and that is what the rest of the world see..the passive attitude of american people letting thir gobernment doing those kind of things...
then you can understand why they hate you...because you don´t seem to do nothinng to stop your president in his crazyness
Kisses:
Eva
btw..is kind of sad that a thread like this exists and not a nother one called "whould you give your life to stop the lebannon war"? you can still change the things in Lebbanon but you are more interested in a past drama (and we had in my country more than what you had in your whole history and we keep on living) ...
3000 people? well...it was a shame and extremists are crazy people but your president´s answer produced 20 times that number of civilian deaths... an eye for an eye???? 20 eyes for an eye.... and you were very happy supporting that at the beggining (look at the polls of those days) ...
3000 people? well...it was a shame and extremists are crazy people but your president´s answer produced 20 times that number of civilian deaths... an eye for an eye???? 20 eyes for an eye.... and you were very happy supporting that at the beggining (look at the polls of those days) ...
member006
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EvaForU said:
In all fairness this thread is almost a year old and you bumped it. Did you bump it so you could complain that it should be forgotten? Like we are still whining? Don't bother because WE WILL NOT FORGET!! We have kept on living that statement was plain cold.
I am sure you have had a lot in your country as many other countries have had more than yours. Doesn't mean that we have to forget what touched our lives. You call it a "past drama"? It will live forever in my mind and all Americans minds. Please though, don't dare say that what happened was any less devastating or important than any event of today or tomorrow. It was and is!!! That's like saying "My mommy was killed crossing the street by a truck, your mommy died in her sleep." "So my mommies death was more devastating than yours" BS the loss is the same with the same devastation.
If you didn't like the thread you are free to start one and ask the same question about any place you want. Please though don't try to lessen the importance of what we feel or what happened on 911.
To stay on topic, yes I would give my life without hesitation.
:hatsoff: Good day.
I for one, would love it people stopped thinking America was a democracy and start thinking (and making it work) like what it is supposed to be - a REPUBLIC.
Liberty, especially individual liberty, is not compatible with democracy.
And for those of you who STILL think that radical islamic terrorism exists SIMPLY because of "They hate us for who we are" - and think that the "not for what we do" doesn't have an impact, please read:
Here's the document: LINK
I suggest downloading it first - it's a 24 page PDF document.
For some very thoughtful reading.
I used to doubt it much, but I doubt it no longer. It's hard to recognise a pattern when you're a part of it. But I can no longer doubt that American imperialism has caused much of our troubles. To those of you who still claim that "Terrorists hate us because of who we are and not what we do" - I ask you why comparable nations with liberal "democracies" such as the UK, France, Canada and Germnay face nearly not the amount of virulent terrorist that we do.
Food for thought.
And last but not least - anybody who thinks that what I've just posted is some kind of complicit acceptance and condonance of the murder of over 3000 people - ye best think again.
I apologise if I dragged this thread offtopic.
cheers,
EDIT::: For me the question of risking life and limb is never a question of "cause". If I had the choice, I would (and I did) - because it is the right thing to do. One doesn't do a good deed, in expectation of adulation or commendation or recognition. One doesn't do a good deed because it's "patriotic" or "nationalist".
One does a good deed because ones moral conscience dictates that is the right course of action.
Saving innocent life from faultless destruction or injury is never a bad thing to do.
Liberty, especially individual liberty, is not compatible with democracy.
And for those of you who STILL think that radical islamic terrorism exists SIMPLY because of "They hate us for who we are" - and think that the "not for what we do" doesn't have an impact, please read:
Here's the document: LINK
I suggest downloading it first - it's a 24 page PDF document.
For some very thoughtful reading.
I used to doubt it much, but I doubt it no longer. It's hard to recognise a pattern when you're a part of it. But I can no longer doubt that American imperialism has caused much of our troubles. To those of you who still claim that "Terrorists hate us because of who we are and not what we do" - I ask you why comparable nations with liberal "democracies" such as the UK, France, Canada and Germnay face nearly not the amount of virulent terrorist that we do.
Food for thought.
And last but not least - anybody who thinks that what I've just posted is some kind of complicit acceptance and condonance of the murder of over 3000 people - ye best think again.
I apologise if I dragged this thread offtopic.
cheers,
EDIT::: For me the question of risking life and limb is never a question of "cause". If I had the choice, I would (and I did) - because it is the right thing to do. One doesn't do a good deed, in expectation of adulation or commendation or recognition. One doesn't do a good deed because it's "patriotic" or "nationalist".
One does a good deed because ones moral conscience dictates that is the right course of action.
Saving innocent life from faultless destruction or injury is never a bad thing to do.
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If you could forfeit your life to stop the deaths of the 16,000 (that's FIVE 9/11s, dudes) Iraqis this year alone as a result of that stupid invasion and oh-so-predictable resultant power vacuum leading to Civil War, would you do it?
Nice going, USA and UK - Saddam only managed to kill 10,000 a year - you beat his annual score already and we've almost half the year to go.
Try this for a foreign policy - mind your own fucking business and leave other countries the fuck alone.
Nice going, USA and UK - Saddam only managed to kill 10,000 a year - you beat his annual score already and we've almost half the year to go.
Try this for a foreign policy - mind your own fucking business and leave other countries the fuck alone.
Re: If you could forfeit your life to prevent 9/11 from ever happening, would you do
I'm willing to admit that the US has it's fair share of mistakes but to claim the whole thing as a "fault of the US and now rest of the world has to clean up" is disingenuous at best.
Believe it or not - Bush isn't stupid. Abraham Lincoln had plenty of trouble with public speaking and wasn't exactly great when it came to diplomacy - and yet nobody cracks jokes at him (read the reports from those days. Everybody lampooned his simple style and sparse oratory).
It is my opinion that President Bush is sinciere in what he believes. Unfortunately, what he believes is right is ALL WRONG for this country (my opinion anyway).
But an idiot - the man is not.
And he hasn't done ALL bad either - for the record, no President of the US has donated as much to AIDS research as Bush jr.'s has (though this might be slightly misleading - technically it's Congress that appropriates money, not the Executive. But I digress).
cheers,
Not all mujahedeen are Taleban. But I agree that calling them "Warriors of liberty" is a far stretch.EvaForU said:
Uhhh, so Soviet Union is to be excused for the problems it created? How is this fair?EvaForU said:
I'm willing to admit that the US has it's fair share of mistakes but to claim the whole thing as a "fault of the US and now rest of the world has to clean up" is disingenuous at best.
This is pointless.EvaForU said:
Believe it or not - Bush isn't stupid. Abraham Lincoln had plenty of trouble with public speaking and wasn't exactly great when it came to diplomacy - and yet nobody cracks jokes at him (read the reports from those days. Everybody lampooned his simple style and sparse oratory).
It is my opinion that President Bush is sinciere in what he believes. Unfortunately, what he believes is right is ALL WRONG for this country (my opinion anyway).
But an idiot - the man is not.
And he hasn't done ALL bad either - for the record, no President of the US has donated as much to AIDS research as Bush jr.'s has (though this might be slightly misleading - technically it's Congress that appropriates money, not the Executive. But I digress).
cheers,
Re: If you could forfeit your life to prevent 9/11 from ever happening, would you do
Come on....
cheers,
Oh Yes. Coalition troops are the ones planted IEDs and exploding car bombs in crowded market places. We are directly targetting and murdering civillians - look here, it even says so in our manual we imprint onto our robot..., I mean soldiers.washingtonyrk said:
Come on....
That, I whole heartedly agree with.washingtonyrk said:
cheers,
To answer the original question; no. I feel no particular hostility towards the people who died and it's a shame it happened, but it did. Changing events is far more complicated than you'd think. Prevent one thing and you may cause another that is quite possibly far worse. As what happened is not my responsibility, I prefer the status quo. I wouldn't have shot Hitler if given the chance either (and in retrospect, perhaps we should be thankful no one did or things could be much worse).
Re: If you could forfeit your life to prevent 9/11 from ever happening, would you do
Sure - suspicion happens. I remember the shit storm that was raised then the Marine double-tapped the guy who was pretending to be dead. I was aghast - because my first (and continued) reaction was/is "But this is absurd. I would have done the same. ANYONE would have done the same".
Do mistakes happen? Heck yeah.
"Robot mentality" is a stretch. Robots don't make good soldiers - simple. I'd rather have a scared (but thinking) guy by my side than a robot. There's little I can provide as supporting evidence for that other than personal experience.
Also, professioal soldiers don't usually make good "robots". They make even lousier armies.
The credo is to obey all orders without question - but we established at Nuerenberg that "I was just following orders" isn't a good excuse. Since that day on, it's been a different ballgame.
To think that way lets the perpetrators off the hook - that's unjust.
My simple point is that there is a difference between driving a car and letting it go boom, hoping to catch some Americans in the cross fire and opening fire on someone with an RPG, hoping some civillians don't get caught in the cross fire.
A large part of the civillian death toll in Iraq is from roadside bombs left by their own brethren (and some foreigners) - how are Americans responsible for that?
In anycase, unless you don't believe that US Forces have some modicum of self restraint and don't just shoot and kill indiscriminately - there's nothing I can say that will convince you toherwise.
You say combat is confusing - I don't for one second disagree with that. But those grunts are all stupid and they don't shoot with their eyes closed. The other side isn't guiltless or fault free either.
I do agree with the fact that our invasion destabilised that region and is currently the cause of much of the violence there. Sometimes I wonder if there is any moral difference between an innocent civillian being murdered by Saddam Hussein or blown to bits by an IED planted to kill us or someone who is a victim of "collateral damage".
Bad memories man...
I don't think I said something to that accord.********** said:
Sure - suspicion happens. I remember the shit storm that was raised then the Marine double-tapped the guy who was pretending to be dead. I was aghast - because my first (and continued) reaction was/is "But this is absurd. I would have done the same. ANYONE would have done the same".
Do mistakes happen? Heck yeah.
"Robot mentality" is a stretch. Robots don't make good soldiers - simple. I'd rather have a scared (but thinking) guy by my side than a robot. There's little I can provide as supporting evidence for that other than personal experience.
Also, professioal soldiers don't usually make good "robots". They make even lousier armies.
The credo is to obey all orders without question - but we established at Nuerenberg that "I was just following orders" isn't a good excuse. Since that day on, it's been a different ballgame.
Would you say "All cops are responsible for every murder caused".********** said:
To think that way lets the perpetrators off the hook - that's unjust.
My simple point is that there is a difference between driving a car and letting it go boom, hoping to catch some Americans in the cross fire and opening fire on someone with an RPG, hoping some civillians don't get caught in the cross fire.
A large part of the civillian death toll in Iraq is from roadside bombs left by their own brethren (and some foreigners) - how are Americans responsible for that?
In anycase, unless you don't believe that US Forces have some modicum of self restraint and don't just shoot and kill indiscriminately - there's nothing I can say that will convince you toherwise.
You say combat is confusing - I don't for one second disagree with that. But those grunts are all stupid and they don't shoot with their eyes closed. The other side isn't guiltless or fault free either.
I do agree with the fact that our invasion destabilised that region and is currently the cause of much of the violence there. Sometimes I wonder if there is any moral difference between an innocent civillian being murdered by Saddam Hussein or blown to bits by an IED planted to kill us or someone who is a victim of "collateral damage".
Which is really sad. Depressingly, infuriatingly sad. The REAL cost of this war - thousands of lives.********** said:
Bad memories man...
''Try this as a foreign policy: start seeing the rest of the world as equals and comrades instead of inferiors and enemies.''
Spot on - I agree 100%.
Spot on - I agree 100%.
I dont think if 9/11 didnt happen it would make any difference, because something else would have happened. Us Westerners were living in dreamland too long.
To those who would die to save George Bush's life: ''your life is worth more than his is and don't ever think it isn't.''
I like Americans generally but that man has made you all hated - not disliked or feared, HATED - around the world (and not just in the Arab world) more than any American in history.
He's not only a moron, a war criminal and a hypocrite, he's a dangerous moron, war criminal and hypocrite.
He illegally invades Iraq to protect the oil supply, then wants to abnegate responsibility when civil war inevitably starts.
FACT: more people are dying a year now in Iraq than when Saddam (who was evil) was in power.
Why?
Because USA's invasion has caused a power vacuum there.
People used to love America, but not any more.
It's very sad.
You people need a new President.
I like Americans generally but that man has made you all hated - not disliked or feared, HATED - around the world (and not just in the Arab world) more than any American in history.
He's not only a moron, a war criminal and a hypocrite, he's a dangerous moron, war criminal and hypocrite.
He illegally invades Iraq to protect the oil supply, then wants to abnegate responsibility when civil war inevitably starts.
FACT: more people are dying a year now in Iraq than when Saddam (who was evil) was in power.
Why?
Because USA's invasion has caused a power vacuum there.
People used to love America, but not any more.
It's very sad.
You people need a new President.
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