Debate thread.

[AFA]

I also thought Obama was stronger. Obama is saying the same things he said in the beginning of his campaign. McCain has changed position on alternate fuels, the war, and the economy, just as he changed his position about not attending the debate until the economic crisis was solved. Sorry, but that one flip yesterday to finally attend with public opinion against him pretty well shows his opinion is blowing in the wind.

That's just what professional politicians do. They sell used cars with flood damage. :dunno:

 

[Facetious]

I think most illegals are being scapegoated by this admin. Most of what is paid to illegal immigrants is sub minimum wage, doing jobs that most people are unwilling to do. Someone asked once if you want to pay $10 a pound for tomatoes without illegals crossing the border?

Point well made, but the idea that we can continue with a wide open, y'all come and go as you like policy will only invite an inevitable sucker punch for which we will likely point fingers for later; I shudder to think how easy it is to fragment this nation on this day.
I have zero issues with the legal green card workers. It's the cost's related to hosting the illegals that have me concerned.

 

[AFA]

Not to change the subject but a lot of the aggression the US sees now, is the result of foreign policy leading to oppression and control of others. The CIA is well known to be it's own instrument of terror in world affairs. A lot of the world is sick of US domination, greed and policy, and pot shots taken by some in word and deed are really not that surprising.

Oh, another thing was McCain didn't seem to get it on the talks with Iran, or Castro, or Chavez if you take it a bit further. Iran approached the US twice right after 9/11 to try to re-establish relations and was ignored by the Bush admin before they lost power and Ahmadinejad came in. Now that's a bigger mess almost out of control and McCain seems to favor that same policy.

 

[Friday on my mind]

I thought one of the more memorable lines was when McCain said we need better intelligence officers so that we are not torturing people anymore.Of course we all knew we tortured people but to hear such a unequivical admission was interesting.I also was suprised how centrist McCain was trying to be saying how much he disagreed with Bush on so many things such as torture,climate etc.Conservative republicans most be saying to themselves shit this guy is not much better than Obama on most issues lol.

 

[AFA]

CNN poll on the debate just said Obama rose from 51% to 62% vs. 38% for McCain. A 2:1 lead as they put it as they feel most thought Obama was more in touch with peoples needs. They also said they thought the only strategy, was for McCain to try to paint a bad picture of Obama winning. Another "smoking gun", I imagine.

I think the public is getting tired of McCain coming late to see the real issues, and swinging the door to what his advisors have just started to tell him is important. Suddenly he's fast becoming an Obama copy and dropping his early Bush stance on virtually everything. Plus choosing Palin has come to show extreme bad judgement on his part. That popularity boost is over. He should have tried to get Paris Hilton.

 

[Facetious]

A lot of the world is sick of US domination, greed and policy, . . .]

Buffett, Ellison, Bill Gates and even The Treasury Sec. Paulson - All Dems FWIW.

The CIA is well known to be it's own instrument of terror in world affairs.

Affirm :thumbsup:

Iran approached the US twice right after 9/11 to try to re-establish relations and was ignored by the Bush admin before they lost power and Ahmadinejad came in.

An olive branch via the Ayatollahs is (or should be) highly suspect.

 

[ChefChiTown]

CNN poll on the debate just said Obama rose from 51% to 62% vs. 38% for McCain. A 2:1 lead as they put it as they feel most thought Obama was more in touch with peoples needs. They also said they thought the only strategy, was for McCain to try to paint a bad picture of Obama winning. Another "smoking gun", I imagine.

I think the public is getting tired of McCain coming late to see the real issues, and swinging the door to what his advisors have just started to tell him is important. Suddenly he's fast becoming an Obama copy and dropping his early Bush stance on virtually everything. Plus choosing Palin has come to show extreme bad judgement on his part. That popularity boost is over. He should have tried to get Paris Hilton.

I think last night's debate took the fact that McCain has "said one thing, done another" when it comes to a lot of issues, and shoved it right in people's faces. It just seemed to me that everytime McCain tried to make himself look good by saying "I've supported (such and such issue) for years", that Obama pointed out that McCain had actually been opposing (such and such issue).

 

[girk1]

McCains threat to basically freeze government spending proves how over the top & impulsive the man can be as opposed to Obama who responded with: "McCain wants to take a hatchet to a problem which needs a scalpel"

It is an example of how more rational/thoughtful Obama is compared to the impulsive McCain.Republicans seem to confuse THOUGHTFULNESS with indecisiveness. They want immediate off the cuff solutions to more complex issues.



I believe McCain probably made a few points ,with some Americans, who really believe in that 'Democrats are out of control spenders' mantra when he backed Obama up a bit with his $900m earmark requests from a couple years ago. Which is a Red herring issue Republicans use to get Americans worked up over just like other Social programs that are a PITTANCE compared to Defense/War,Medicare,Medicaid & other spending. (Obama quoted earmark spending at $18b/yr at it's worst which is PEANUTS compared to IRAQ,Defense Spending,Social Security,Medicare,etc...& overall Republican/Bush RECORD spending the past 8 years .)

He also got in a little zinger ,that may play well with some, with his joke about talking to Iran,but overall Obama showed he isn't the inexperienced/naive fool(like Palin) that McCain wants you to believe.

Obama wins round one.

 

[Friday on my mind]

McCains threat to basically freeze government spending proves how over the top & impulsive the man can be as opposed to Obama who responded with: "McCain wants to take a hatchet to a problem which needs a scalpel"

It is an example of how more rational/thoughtful Obama is compared to the impulsive McCain.Republicans seem to confuse THOUGHTFULNESS with indecisiveness. They want immediate off the cuff solutions to more complex issues.



I believe McCain probably made a few points ,with some Americans, who really believe in that 'Democrats are out of control spenders' mantra when he backed Obama up a bit with his $900m earmark requests from a couple years ago. Which is a Red herring issue Republicans use to get Americans worked up over just like other Social programs that are a PITTANCE compared to Defense/War,Medicare,Medicaid & other spending. (Obama quoted earmark spending at $18b/yr at it's worst which is PEANUTS compared to IRAQ,Defense Spending,Social Security,Medicare,etc...& overall Republican/Bush RECORD spending the past 8 years .)

He also got in a little zinger ,that may play well with some, with his joke about talking to Iran,but overall Obama showed he isn't the inexperienced/naive fool(like Palin) that McCain wants you to believe.

Obama wins round one.

What bothered me most about his spending freeze proposal was he predictably said of course defense spending would not be included in that.The old protect the military industrial establishment and the maasive spending on it crap.Yeah the US with its ability to destroy eveyone several times is really at risk and needs to keep spending so much on more new stuff,its ridiculous John.Screw just freezing that spending cut it 75%!!!
We and the world would all be better off.:thumbsup:

 

[AFA]

What bothered me most about his spending freeze proposal was he predictably said of course defense spending would not be included in that.The old protect the military industrial establishment and the maasive spending on it crap.Yeah the US with its ability to destroy eveyone several times is really at risk and needs to keep spending so much on more new stuff,its ridiculous John.Screw just freezing that spending cut it 75%!!!
We and the world would all be better off.:thumbsup:

I caught that too. A freeze on spending means the good social programs like education and job training get scrapped too.

No body wants to bother doing their own research, and doesn't want to watch the Eisenhower film. I don't know how anyone can take that stand in the US in the 21st century for any military buildup. It's like the battle of the cave men to support self interest groups, and other peoples kids will continue to get blown up to support a war that never should have been started with what clearly were lies from the beginning. It's like a religious movement for God's sake.

 

[luverly]

I caught that too. A freeze on spending means the good social programs like education and job training get scrapped too.

It's like the battle of the cave men to support self interest groups, and other peoples kids will continue to get blown up to support a war that never should have been started with what clearly were lies from the beginning. It's like a religious movement for God's sake.

It's a foothold, man. Oil equates to sovereignty. We do it now, so their kid's kid's won't have to do it later; quite possibly, and most likely, under more scrupulant terms.

 

[YMIHERE]

What bothered me most about his spending freeze proposal was he predictably said of course defense spending would not be included in that.The old protect the military industrial establishment and the maasive spending on it crap.Yeah the US with its ability to destroy eveyone several times is really at risk and needs to keep spending so much on more new stuff,its ridiculous John.Screw just freezing that spending cut it 75%!!!
We and the world would all be better off.:thumbsup:

I would like to know how is McCain going to freeze spending on interest on the national debt. I keeps going up to the point where it's one one largest items in the budget.

Spending for interest on the debt in fiscal year 2007 ($238 billion) equaled 20.5% of all personal income tax revenue and more than the entire federal share of the Medicaid program in fiscal year 2007 ($191 billion).

http://www.concordcoalition.org/learn/debt-facts

 

[Friday on my mind]

I would like to know how is McCain going to freeze spending on interest on the national debt. I keeps going up to the point where it's one one largest items in the budget.



http://www.concordcoalition.org/learn/debt-facts

He will declare "interest" is a terrorist group that we must be protected from! But seriously of course he can't and your right in a few years if something isn't done interest will be the biggest single budget item.


And the more I am hearing of analysis of this debate particulary the things you couldn't see on TV like you could being there like body english the worse it sound like it went for McCain.People there are saying McCain looked mad and uncomfortable.And one of the things people are talking about the most is he refused to look at Obama.What's that about, scared to meet eyes with him or calculated to try and disrespect Obama? Whatever it was people are saying resoundlingly they didn't like it or his demeanor compared to Obama's who was polite talked directly and looked at McCain the grumpy ole S.O.B.
To be honest I think I understand exactly what it was as I think have seen enough elections to know.McCain's stategy in this debate was to not look at Obama to send the signal that in his opinion Obama isn't even worthy to be on the same stage with McCain with the difference in experience they have while saying repeatly to Obama "you just don't understand" this or that.Obama on the other hands strategy was to do exactly the opposite ,show that he belonged there and could easily debate McCain on anything.Obama easily was able to respond to all McCain's attacks and looked very much more Presidential.All the focus groups that watched it saw it this way,McCain was like a glass of sour milk their describing him as.McCains stategy seems to have not played well with people.

 

[AFA]

He will declare "interest" is a terrorist group that we must be protected from! But seriously of course he can't and your right in a few years if something isn't done interest will be the biggest single budget item.


And the more I am hearing of analysis of this debate particulary the things you couldn't see on TV like you could being there like body english the worse it sound like it went for McCain.People there are saying McCain looked mad and uncomfortable.And one of the things people are talking about the most is he refused to look at Obama.What's that about, scared to meet eyes with him or calculated to try and disrespect Obama? Whatever it was people are saying resoundlingly they didn't like it or his demeanor compared to Obama's who was polite talked directly and looked at McCain the grumpy ole S.O.B.
To be honest I think I understand exactly what it was as I think have seen enough elections to know.McCain's stategy in this debate was to not look at Obama to send the signal that in his opinion Obama isn't even worthy to be on the same stage with McCain with the difference in experience they have while saying repeatly to Obama "you just don't understand" this or that.Obama on the other hands strategy was to do exactly the opposite ,show that he belonged there and could easily debate McCain on anything.Obama easily was able to respond to all McCain's attacks and looked very much more Presidential.All the focus groups that watched it saw it this way,McCain was like a glass of sour milk their describing him as.McCains stategy seems to have not played well with people.

He did look angry, and cynical.

It's really just a ploy to take attention off yourself. You can always say, "If you knew more you'd agree with me". It's cheap and requires no information about the other point of view so you can remain as narrow minded as you choose.

It's a foothold, man. Oil equates to sovereignty. We do it now, so their kid's kid's won't have to do it later; quite possibly, and most likely, under more scrupulant terms.

With the proper leadership with insight in this country 30 years or more years ago the US could be a leader in the technology of alternate fuels, but the powers that be then and now sold a bill of goods, that was recognized would come about in the words of Eisenhower. Industry on this country is based on big business, military production and oil. Wars become inevitable as a rational for peace, a rally cry to forget about other issues.

This is so screwed up now, it will never be fixed, so the worst thing is to keep the powers that be in power.

 

[AFA]

Buffett, Ellison, Bill Gates and even The Treasury Sec. Paulson - All Dems FWIW.

Affirm :thumbsup:

An olive branch via the Ayatollahs is (or should be) highly suspect.

Okay!

 

[BlueBalls]

I wanted to watch that, but it was on at 2am BST, so instead I fell asleep.


So.....who won?

 

[Friday on my mind]

I wanted to watch that, but it was on at 2am BST, so instead I fell asleep.


So.....who won?

One guy seemed old and grumpy and wouldn't even look at the other.You guess who that was.
All the focus groups say Obama won.But it was not anything like a knockout.Its just that Mccain need a game changer right now and has been floundering trying to find it.The debate over whether he would debate made him look silly and last night was not the win he needed.

 

[AFA]

It's on the internet and several websites in full I think. You have to make up your own mind as to who won.

 

[blakey]

it's on again in the uk at the moment on more 4

 

[BlueBalls]

it's on again in the uk at the moment on more 4

Thanks for that, I had no idea :hatsoff: