Chris Matthews: What has the Republican Party done for The People...

[meesterperfect]

wow its become a religion and gay marraige thread.
ok, so many self proclaimed be it genuine or not religious people do try to push religion on others.
most religious people dont.
however the hatred comes from many who dont believe in god or a god towards those who do.
if they want to believe in god let them, aint hurtin nobody.

the gay marraige thing, i dont believe in it either.
why? because marraige is bewteen men and women, thats what it is.
they want to be together fine, nobodys stopping them, but I cant marry a dude either, and i also cant marry my goldfish, because thats not what marraige is.
again i see no hatred towards gays, but alot of hatred towards those who dont agree with gay marraige.

but maybe if so many gays stopped acting like this they might get more support from the straights.
put some clothes on dude, ma'am, siir, you look like a freakin degenerate perv.
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[Mariahxxx]

Bush Sr. single-handedly brought down the Iron Curtain.

Or wait...was it the Pope?

um it wasn't Mush Sr it was Ronald Reagan sir. Remember, "Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall..."

Imagine if we had Reagan again right now how things would be so different. I don't think we'd be in 2 wars because we would have done things very differently. It's too bad the right has no voice of reason and logic...at least none that I have heard. but don't get me wrong lol neither does the left

 

[raychik]

wow its become a religion and gay marraige thread.
ok, so many self proclaimed be it genuine or not religious people do try to push religion on others.
most religious people dont.
however the hatred comes from many who dont believe in god or a god towards those who do.
if they want to believe in god let them, aint hurtin nobody.

the gay marraige thing, i dont believe in it either.
why? because marraige is bewteen men and women, thats what it is.
they want to be together fine, nobodys stopping them, but I cant marry a dude either, and i also cant marry my goldfish, because thats not what marraige is. Again i see no hatred towards gays, but alot of hatred towards those who dont agree with gay marraige.

but maybe if so many gays stopped acting like this they might get more support from the straights.
put some clothes on dude, ma'am, siir, you look like a freakin degenerate perv.

This is a thread about what Republicans have done to the country so it wa bound to shift to a religious conversation. Their belief in god does hurt people, people that want the same rights afforded to them that we all have under the constitution (you know about the pursuit of happiness and such). How is it hatred to want religion and any other superstitions of any sort to have no place in politics and let people live the way they want to live if its not done any tangible, physical harm? Why does marriage have to between a man and a woman? Other than because a book says so, where can one find a logical explanation as to why it should be that way? I don't understand your goldfish allegory since they are not protected by the Constitution but, um, moving on...

You can't generalize all gays and lesbians like that. There are as many "slutty" straights as there are gays. Seeing two guys kiss or be together disgusts me (since I indoctrinated since youth into thinking it was wrong) but why should my preference have any bearing on someone else's life?

 

[J_Mags]

um it wasn't Mush Sr it was Ronald Reagan sir. Remember, "Mr Gorbachev tear down this wall..."

Imagine if we had Reagan again right now how things would be so different. I don't think we'd be in 2 wars because we would have done things very differently. It's too bad the right has no voice of reason and logic...at least none that I have heard. but don't get me wrong lol neither does the left

If Reagan was still President, Afghanistan would have been turned into glass on September 12th. That was a man who deserved to be leader of the free world. He was such a good leader, reining in the far right and bringing them closer to the middle. Ever since, the right has been out of control, in my opinion. And this is coming from a guy who leans right on a lot of issues. :tongue:

 

[Mariahxxx]

ok here is a question for those of you on the left.

I agree totally that Bush trampled the Constitution and that he should be in jail for the inclusion of special interests in writing laws i.e. MBNA bank writing the bankruptcy reform law of which they were the #1 beneficiary and the no-bid contracts to Haliburton.

However, if you think the Dems are protecting the constitution you're out of your fucking minds!
I'll give you one example because I have to get on a plane in a minute...

If this Health care reform is passed we as Americans, who live in a free country will be forced to purchase a product from a company or we will be fined by our government!!!!!!!!! first time in the history of our country that will happen. My biggest question then is what will be forced to purchase next? Where will it stop?
My father-in-law is a lifetime union guy, votes as far left as he can reach and yet claims to be a republican lol yet if you bring up states like Vermont and Maine who allow schools to help girls over the age of 13 get abortions without their parents consent he totally agrees that the government needs to step in when the parents won't!
he also is on the side of the burglar who fell through the skylight and broke his back and successfully sued the home owners, whom he was burglarizing and on their private property!

So my question is, do you leftists believe in the government forcing us to buy insurance even if we don't want it? is that constitutional to you?

 

[Mariahxxx]

If Reagan was still President, Afghanistan would have been turned into glass on September 12th. That was a man who deserved to be leader of the free world. He was such a good leader, reining in the far right and bringing them closer to the middle. Ever since, the right has been out of control, in my opinion. And this is coming from a guy who leans right on a lot of issues. :tongue:

well said. the Iranians knew what was coming when he was sworn in in 1981, as a result the hostages were released the following morning. they knew they would be wiped off the face of the earth if they didn't.

Bush was a clown and he has damaged the right for years to come I'm afraid. He hurt us on so many levels and he spent more money than anyone in history...well, until Barack

oh forgot to add...the Katrina comment is ridiculous. however, what made katrina so much worse were the unending levels of bureaucracy that anyone who wanted to mobilize buses or to open closed roads or to organize anything that kept a lot of people from getting out and that my friends was created by the very large government that has been created in southern louisianna over the last 20 years. Clinton didn't rebuild the levees even after he was advised of the depserate need so you can point your fingers in any direction and find blame.

 

[raychik]

If this Health care reform is passed we as Americans, who live in a free country will be forced to purchase a product from a company or we will be fined by our government!!!!!!!!! first time in the history of our country that will happen. My biggest question then is what will be forced to purchase next? Where will it stop?
My father-in-law is a lifetime union guy, votes as far left as he can reach and yet claims to be a republican lol yet if you bring up states like Vermont and Maine who allow schools to help girls over the age of 13 get abortions without their parents consent he totally agrees that the government needs to step in when the parents won't!
he also is on the side of the burglar who fell through the skylight and broke his back and successfully sued the home owners, whom he was burglarizing and on their private property!

So my question is, do you leftists believe in the government forcing us to buy insurance even if we don't want it? is that constitutional to you?

That is not constitutional. You shouldn't be forced to buy insurance. The "no" party is partly to blame for this as well. All the concessions and compromises this current bill is basically "a blowjob to the insurance industry"

well said. the Iranians knew what was coming when he was sworn in in 1981, as a result the hostages were released the following morning. they knew they would be wiped off the face of the earth if they didn't.

Bush was a clown and he has damaged the right for years to come I'm afraid. He hurt us on so many levels and he spent more money than anyone in history...well, until Barack

Muslims are not a religion of peace as they claim to be, quite the contrary (even they say that the Koran is to be taken literally and there are tons of texts about killing infidels...no out of context b.s.) From the extremists that carry out the attacks to the 'moderates' that sit back and do nothing. However, "a sea of glass"? Are we really considering nuking them? We have the MOAB...no need for nukes.

 

[Friday on my mind]

ok here is a question for those of you on the left.

I agree totally that Bush trampled the Constitution and that he should be in jail for the inclusion of special interests in writing laws i.e. MBNA bank writing the bankruptcy reform law of which they were the #1 beneficiary and the no-bid contracts to Haliburton.

However, if you think the Dems are protecting the constitution you're out of your fucking minds!
I'll give you one example because I have to get on a plane in a minute...

If this Health care reform is passed we as Americans, who live in a free country will be forced to purchase a product from a company or we will be fined by our government!!!!!!!!! first time in the history of our country that will happen. My biggest question then is what will be forced to purchase next? Where will it stop?
My father-in-law is a lifetime union guy, votes as far left as he can reach and yet claims to be a republican lol yet if you bring up states like Vermont and Maine who allow schools to help girls over the age of 13 get abortions without their parents consent he totally agrees that the government needs to step in when the parents won't!
he also is on the side of the burglar who fell through the skylight and broke his back and successfully sued the home owners, whom he was burglarizing and on their private property!

So my question is, do you leftists believe in the government forcing us to buy insurance even if we don't want it? is that constitutional to you?

Do you think it's constitutional the govt forces you to pay taxes and fund schools,the military and the rest that it does? Govt forces you to go to school whether you like it or not as well.

Do you know that the other industrial countries who have universal socialized health care spend much less on it then we do ,cover everyone and have better health stats in their populations as well.We are getting hosed and it's gonna kill us economically if we keep the current system.If the constitution says we have to get hosed and some have no health insurance it's time for a re-write.:1orglaugh

Now let me ask you something.Do you not see any conflict of interests in being in the adult industry and holding conservative views.You realize of course that along with abortionists etc the right would like to lock up people in the porn industry as well and see porn abolished. :eek:

 

[Mariahxxx]

what we need to do is to drop a dirty bomb in the hills of Afghanistan and Pakistan so they are uninhabitable for the next 50 years. Flush them out, no matter how much boo hooing the bleeding hearts do...it's either us or them.
Richard Gere got on stage after 9/11 and suggested that we treat them with compassion and love and understanding and the far left looney Hollywood crowd boo'd him..remember that awesome moment? Fire with fire or you lose.
They laugh at how soft we are. they capture our soldier and hand them over to their women who skin our soldiers alive to get information. they literally strip the meat off their legs down to the bone before they even begin to ask questions!!! and we're bitching about fucking waterboarding?

 

[J_Mags]

Do you think it's constitutional the govt forces you to pay taxes and fund schools,the military and the rest that it does? Govt forces you to go to school whether you like it or not as well.

Do you know that the other industrial countries who have universal socialized health care spend much less on it then we do ,cover everyone and have better health stats in their populations as well.We are getting hosed and it's gonna kill us economically if we keep the current system.If the constitution says we have to get hosed and some have no health insurance it's time for a re-write.:1orglaugh

Now let me ask you something.Do you not see any conflict of interests in being in the adult industry and holding conservative views.You realize of course that along with abortionists etc the right would like to lock up people in the porn industry as well and see porn abolished. :eek:

Yes, it is constitutional to pay for schools, the military...making people who don't want to learn go to school is another issue though. That's detrimental to everyone involved...let the idiots try to get through life without an education if they want.

I refuse to pay for the health of others, especially with how many people fail to even attempt to take care of themselves. I'm not saying the system doesn't need reform, but health care is NOT a privilege that all deserve as a handout...

You can hold conservative views on many issues, and be liberal about some as well. Not all people who see themselves as leaning right are bible pounding morons who believe we should all live as Puritans...

 

[Mariahxxx]

what's so contrast about having conservative views and being in this business. i have fiscally conservative views and more liberal social views. = libertarian.

I don't like abortion and hate it being used as birth control, but I don't think it should be decided what a woman does with her body. However, if you're in favor of abortion isn't it a conflict of interest to be against the death penalty????

Porn needs opposition and oppression to thrive and that's a proven fact.

I don't want the government to decide what products I purchase. I didn't say anything regarding things like police or schools, I said a consumer product that we will be forced to purchase, even if we don't want it or cannot afford it, or choose not to afford it. If someone wishes to spend a big portion of his income on comic books he collects who the fuck is the government to tell him he can't because he has to buy a product?
I pay taxes so that there are police to keep me safe and same goes for fire departments. I don't mind paying my taxes as long as they aren't helping some loser who would rather not work and my money makes that possible
why don't you quote me the unemployment rates for those socialist countries? France is near 50%! and they take nearly 60% of your income to pay for it!
My friend has a house in france he inherited from his parents and his annual taxes for it is nearly $30k!!!!!!!!!!! wtf is that about? could you afford that? guess what that pays for? not just the health care,,,it pays for those who don't want to work because their socialist government will pay them not to! ok, plane is about to leave me here!

peace to all of you...our opinions and differences make us who we are and tell others what we know, or don't know. I respect your thoughts, even if I don't agree

 

[raychik]

what we need to do is to drop a dirty bomb in the hills of Afghanistan and Pakistan so they are uninhabitable for the next 50 years. Flush them out, no matter how much boo hooing the bleeding hearts do...it's either us or them.
Richard Gere got on stage after 9/11 and suggested that we treat them with compassion and love and understanding and the far left looney Hollywood crowd boo'd him..remember that awesome moment? Fire with fire or you lose.
They laugh at how soft we are. they capture our soldier and hand them over to their women who skin our soldiers alive to get information. they literally strip the meat off their legs down to the bone before they even begin to ask questions!!! and we're bitching about fucking waterboarding?

Oh, I am all for torture. They have no rules yet we must abide by them to show that we are 'better' than them? If torturing 30 terrorists saves one innocent life, I am all for that. When fighting against religious loonies (who have been taught that this life sucks and the next life is better so its okay strap explosives to yourself and kill innocents) you have to take extreme measures as well. They don't understand diplomacy.

 

[J_Mags]

what we need to do is to drop a dirty bomb in the hills of Afghanistan and Pakistan so they are uninhabitable for the next 50 years. Flush them out, no matter how much boo hooing the bleeding hearts do...it's either us or them.
Richard Gere got on stage after 9/11 and suggested that we treat them with compassion and love and understanding and the far left looney Hollywood crowd boo'd him..remember that awesome moment? Fire with fire or you lose.
They laugh at how soft we are. they capture our soldier and hand them over to their women who skin our soldiers alive to get information. they literally strip the meat off their legs down to the bone before they even begin to ask questions!!! and we're bitching about fucking waterboarding?

President Truman dropped two nukes on Japan, A) to save an estimated 1 million American lives, and B) to scare the shit out of the Japanese. Send a few megatons thundering through the Afghan-Pakistan mountains where these fucks are hiding, see what happens. If they still don't learn, keep bombing them. Vaporize them all. If we don't, they will eventually.

 

[raychik]

The same things? Not hardly. While his porn interests may be similar to yours you're the only one playing messenger of God around here. But I really don't have a problem with that. Actually it's so incongruous I find it pretty entertaining :1orglaugh

"Hark unto me all you sinners, when the apocalypse cometh the only ones saved will be Will and the shemales" :bowdown: :1orglaugh

LOL I just read this now. You got rep for that my good sir. lol

 

[PirateKing]

President Truman dropped two nukes on Japan, A) to save an estimated 1 million American lives, and B) to scare the shit out of the Japanese. Send a few megatons thundering through the Afghan-Pakistan mountains where these fucks are hiding, see what happens. If they still don't learn, keep bombing them. Vaporize them all. If we don't, they will eventually.

The things is that if we drop bombs on the civilians if japan then that makes us no better than the kamikazee pilots that attacked pearl harbor. I think if we dropped a nuclear bomb a few miles off the coast of japan and said "the next ones gonna drop on you if you dont surrender", then the japanese probably would have still surrendured. but we dropped not one but two nukes on japanese citizens. I just think its fundementally wrong to drop bombs on civilians. Go ahead and flame me i dont give a shit..

 

[PirateKing]

Also when we indiscriminately drop bombs on families we are giving non hostiles justifiable reason to join the cause of the enemy. chances are if you are dropping a bomb in the middle east you are maybe successfully killing one Al Queda for about 10 innocent civilians. Those fuckers are spread out in afghanistan, iran, saudia arabia, and northern africa. a bombs not gonna do shit.

as for the healthcare issue i feel conflicted. I hear stories about patients with cancer and such being turned down for treatment because their HMO chooses not to cover them. The health insurance companies see human lives as a commodity and they earn a profit by pocketing the money that would otherwise be used to cover their treatment. They are basically saying 'fuck you' to dying people.

 

[Member2019]

The things is that if we drop bombs on the civilians if japan

Wait ... did Kofi Anon hold Truman up as an example versus the "evil" of W.?

then that makes us no better than the kamikazee pilots that attacked pearl harbor

Apparently someone needs to read history. They weren't "kamikazee" but "elite" pilots at the start of WWII. Kamikazee came about well over 2 years later (and largely 4 years) when pilot skills were inferior to the US.

The US got its butt handed to them in several engagements for the first year, although the Battle of Midway took out a great number of elite Japanese pilots (and that took several waves, luck and descramblings of oce). The rest was US industrial might.

I think if we dropped a nuclear bomb a few miles off the coast of japan and said "the next ones gonna drop on you if you dont surrender", then the japanese probably would have still surrendured.

Again, apparently someone needs to read history.

After the first one, the Japanese military still refused to surrender. It was only after the second one his, and the US proved that the first one was not a fluke. There were even suggestions in the Japanese high command that the US had dropped them before, but this was the first one that worked. Understand Japan had its own atomic program in Korea but it was considered unfeasible and eventually abandoned as resources were required elsewhere by '44.

It was only after the second usage that the high command gave the power back to the Emperor to negotiate.

There were also issues of a surrender to the Soviet Union. The US wanted unconditional surrender, and when it was discovered that the Japanese were suing for a conditional surrender with the Soviet Union, that also played a part in the fate of hundreds of thousands of Japanese.

I highly recommend you read up on the discussions in the Truman administration. There were several key staff and military individuals involved. They eventually came to the agreement that Japan needed to be forced to a quick, unconditional surrender, and believed (and proven correctly) that the only way for the emperor to get control back from his generals, was to demonstrate multiple times with strategic usage.

A non-specific warning was issued. That is the main thing that is debated today. But an "example" was ruled out.

but we dropped not one but two nukes on japanese citizens.

Again, read above. Japan refused to surrender after the first one. It is well documented in their own history.

Truman's staff knew what they had to do. It is still debated on how the warnings and other things could have been sent, and the Russian aspects (that Japan was seeking peace witht hem) that influenced, but they knew it would take multiple bombs.

I just think its fundementally wrong to drop bombs on civilians. Go ahead and flame me i dont give a shit..

It's hard to drop a strategic weapon and not level the area with civilians. Sorry, but that's reality. It's called a "strategic," and not "tactical," weapon.

If the US could find a target on land that could do the same, they would have.

 

[SgtMarine]

The things is that if we drop bombs on the civilians if japan then that makes us no better than the kamikazee pilots that attacked pearl harbor. ..

When did that happend? I am pretty sure that Kamikazee pilots came towards the end of the war

The Kamikaze (神風?, common translation: "divine wind") ( [ˌkamiˈkaːzɛ] (help·info)) were suicide attacks by military aviators from the Empire of Japan against Allied naval vessels in the closing stages of the Pacific campaign of World War II, designed to destroy as many warships as possible

SgtMarine says get your facts straight maggot. American forces in the Pacific, mainly US Marines OORAH, were in some of the toughest fight during WWII.

"The battles of Guadalcanal, Bougainville, Tarawa, Guam, Tinian, Saipan, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa saw fierce fighting between Marines and the Imperial Japanese Army"

My Grandfather personalliy took place in Gudalcanal, Tarawa and Iwo.

Japan would fight to the last man standing, even after the first nuke was dropped they still refused to surrented. American commanders were saying that an invasion of mainland Japan would decimate the American Military and looking around millions killed.

While you might think the bomb is bad, it actually saved lives. Who knows if we did not drop it home many of us would be here today. I know I would not be.

 

[PirateKing]

When did that happend? I am pretty sure that Kamikazee pilots came towards the end of the war

simple mistake, whether they bombed pearl harbor or plunged their planes doesnt take away from the validity of the point im trying to make. And dont think that killing civilians is ineviatble. The point im trying to make is that using civilians as collateral is not justifiable even in war. Why do the ends always justify the means?

After the first one, the Japanese military still refused to surrender. It was only after the second one his, and the US proved that the first one was not a fluke.

The first one was one hell of a warning. If Japan didnt surrender would we have wiped it off the map? Is that the length one goes? People shouldnt have to pay for the stubborness of their leader.

 

[SgtMarine]

simple mistake, whether they bombed pearl harbor or plunged their planes doesnt take away from the validity of the point im trying to make. ?

Yes it does. Civilian deaths are a part of doing war, is it right no, but it is part of war. This is not the 19century where we can march our armies into an open battle field and stand yards away firing into each other's front line. The front lines are not what they traditionally are anymore.

The first one was one hell of a warning. If Japan didnt surrender would we have wiped it off the map? Is that the length one goes? People shouldnt have to pay for the stubborness of their leader.

If Japan did not surrender after the 2nd atom bomb we would have invaded mainland Japan and suffered huge numbers of KIA.