BP's top kill effort fails to plug Gulf oil leak

24788

☼LEGIT☼
This is in the book of the future.

"A huge oil spill will happen in 2010 off the coast of the United States and East of the Mexican coast, this will be part of our profits for 2010 as oil rises to $5.50 a gallon putting our hold on the U.S. as well as the rest of the world"

I'm not sure what hold means, but I think it means control.
 
I'm surprised by the total lack of realistic plausible contingencies that the oil and drilling companies should have had by now before they even started drilling in those areas, like what to do in the event of a absolute worst case scenario, for example a huge oil leak a mile under water where all the safeties failed and it's not stopping. You always have to take into account things like that might happen.

Until they have a reasonable practical answer for that with a very high rate of success they should never be allowed to drill like that.

This is also what happens when people push for more oil cheaper instead of suffering temporary pain and getting clean, renewable, alternative energy sources going.
 
This is in the book of the future.

"A huge oil spill will happen in 2010 off the coast of the United States and East of the Mexican coast, this will be part of our profits for 2010 as oil rises to $5.50 a gallon putting our hold on the U.S. as well as the rest of the world"

I'm not sure what hold means, but I think it means control.

Siiighh man, the book of future ( in Europe ) is a book from yester-year, ..cause we´re payin here about US -$ 7,-- per gallon.
 
Offer : Change my environment against ur ( future ) environment. Makes me pay 25% less. :D:rofl:
 
There's already a thread on this issue that 'Mega started over a month ago. The search function is your friend, my Red Tide amigo!

http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=399618

i knew this was coming jagger:1orglaugh but i did search oil..it didnt come up with nothing?..but anyway..ROLLLL TIDEEE..(you knew that was coming....anyway..been a lot of deaths..greed..tears..and people killed over oil in the last few years...could this be GODS way of saying heres you greedy bastards some OIL!!!!!!
 
A few of these might just do it....
N2151-classic_butt_plug.jpg
 

Facetious

Moderated
Nobody listened to these groups after Exxon Valdez.
Nobody listened to ''these groups'' who after the Exxon Valdez? . .and what, why, where and how? :confused: Wasn't the Valdez spill about a drunken skipper?
Wouldn't that just anger idiot America now?
Where are you going w/ this?

We have to stop the oil gush.
First and foremost, yes
.We need to clean up the beaches and the sea.
An ongoing task as we speak. Would you think to volunteer?
And we need to sue the shit out of BP and all companies associated with this disaster. There needs to be executives going to jail for this mess.
That's your agenda: destroy any and all forms of capitalism by any and all means necessary, aka communism. Not so fast, buster! We need an independent and impartial investigation to take place first, remember? Everybody deserves their day in court in a representative republic.
What world are you living in 1917 russia ! :1orglaugh
It is unacceptable if the only solution to stop this gusher is to drill another well. :rolleyes:
Dead wrong! If everything else fails, which is likely to be the case according to the world's top scientists, a parallel well will, in fact, put an end to this crisis. FIGHT FIRE W/ FIRE as they say!
I think a different oil company, Shell or even Exxon, should be consulted on how to stop this fucker now.
What evidence is there to substantiate that the world's best consultants aren't already on it?:dunno:
BP needs to be hauled away to prison. They have failed miserably.
Did not the government give the oil companies the express approval to drill offshore in the first place? :dunno:

The evidence coming out right now doesn't support a theory of terrorism.
The evidence has yet to be collected during a time of panic; that's my point, an enemy couldn't have selected a better target, particularly when the evidence rests some 5,000 ft. below mean sea level while oil is a gusshin!
There are emails and memos detailing a lot of cost cutting and warning signs about methane gas pockets that went ignored by BP.
transcript?

Would terrorists rent a sub and plant C-4 underwater? Meh. I don't think so.
torpedo--------------------------> :kablam: :dunno:


In summary, it sounds as if you're too emotionally fixated on destroying BP w/out gathering all of the facts.

The government must also take at least half of the blame, after all, they issued the approval for the drilling & exploration, they knew about the associated risks involved. ;)

Aside: What are we going to do about the Chinese and Russian platforms that are sprouting up in Cuban Waters?



Perfectly nothing!
 
I've yet to see the media tackle the realities of this situation.

First off, the history of just Canada and Mexico make the US look like prince when it comes to oil spills, much less Europe and Asia. Exxon Valdez was nothing compared to our neighbors in the Americas, much less many others outside of the Americas.

Secondly, this issue is much like the Mexican national oil company one of '79 that lasted 9 months into '80. Although in the Mexican case, there was clear negligence in safety and communication, and the hundreds of miles of US beaches and natural resources destroyed received 0 compensation from Mexico.

Third, the reason why the government caps liability is because contractors to companies like BP would not undertake efforts like this, they are too risky. The US government forces them to for issues of national security, and the liability cap removes much of the issue.

The BP refinery from a few years ago comes to mind. BP knew it was an issue, and wanted to shut it down, but it refined 3% of all US consumption. With litigation preventing newer refineries from being built to replace it, and the US government preventing BP from shutting it down, the non-sense and safety violations continued until it finally caused an explosion.

People consume but don't want to stop to know where it comes from. They offer no solutions, but argue companies "should know better." Frankly, after Katrina, I learned who I should listen to, and it's not people or the media. It's the US Coast Guard.

We'll see what happens of this entire episode, but one thing is for certain. BP has the sole distinction of being the first oil company that has promised and taken on liabilities it didn't even have to. They have made public statements that have only signed them up to spend more money. That is unheard of from any oil spill prior.

Exxon avoided commenting on their liabilities in public and fought having to fork up money. BP is being rather open with the Coast Guard and others "really involved," and just ignored the distractive "concerned citizens." All politicians are grandstanding as well. This is unprecedented, despite what people may think of BP.

Especially since there are a great number of engineers currently involved that are pointing the fingers not at BP, but their contractor. We'll see where this ends, but it's clear the efforts and money being spent are, despite the naysayers. Can't say the same of those in past spills, US or otherwise.

I'm no fan of BP, especially what they've done to Amaco in the Americas since the late '90s. But I've been watching those who matter, and that's largely the US Coast Guard. They know when to be critical, and they know how to get things done.
 
We'll see what happens of this entire episode, but one thing is for certain. BP has the sole distinction of being the first oil company that has promised and taken on liabilities it didn't even have to. They have made public statements that have only signed them up to spend more money. That is unheard of from any oil spill prior.

You're giving BP way too much credit. There is a reason they are talking about taking on liabilities, and that's because there have been threats about changing the law that limits liabilities for them, even making their liabilities retroactive, and given what's happened there is no way opposition to the change would hold up. They no longer have anything to lose by talking about taking on liability, and that's why they are doing it, not because they suddenly became altruistic. Their doing damage control in more ways than one, and they know there is no way they can win if they fight anything in an overt manner, not with public outrage as against them as it is. Going along with some things might even allow them to twist and mitigate what they do have to be liable for in a more hidden fashion. If nothing else their trying to mitigate the public relations disaster on their hands.

Exon didn't do that because their disaster happened in a relatively remote part of the world, and while it was newsworthy it didn't directly affect the vast amounts of people like this will, or piss them off.
 

Agent Z

Closed Account
This is some serious shit.
Is the US president taking measure or BP is "trying" to stop the leak alone ? Cuz here in Hungaria we only have quick flashes...
 
Why Obama Should Put BP Under Temporary Receivership

by Robert Reich :thumbsup:

It's time for the federal government to put BP under temporary receivership, which gives the government authority to take over BP's operations in the Gulf of Mexico until the gusher is stopped. This is the only way the public will know what's going on, be confident enough resources are being put to stopping the gusher, ensure BP's strategy is correct, know the government has enough clout to force BP to use a different one if necessary, and be sure the president is ultimately in charge.

If the government can take over giant global insurer AIG and the auto giant General Motors and replace their CEOs, in order to keep them financially solvent, it should be able to put BP's north American operations into temporary receivership in order to stop one of the worst environmental disasters in U.S. history.

The Obama administration keeps saying BP is in charge because BP has the equipment and expertise necessary to do what's necessary. But under temporary receivership, BP would continue to have the equipment and expertise. The only difference: the firm would unambiguously be working in the public's interest. As it is now, BP continues to be responsible primarily to its shareholders, not to the American public. As a result, the public continues to worry that a private for-profit corporation is responsible for stopping a public tragedy.

Five reasons for taking such action:

1. We are not getting the truth from BP. BP has continuously and dramatically understated size of gusher. In the last few days, BP chief Tony Hayward has tried to refute reports from scientists that vast amounts of oil from the spill are spreading underwater. Hayward says BP's sampling shows "no evidence" oil is massing and spreading underwater across the Gulf. Yet scientists from the University of South Florida, University of Georgia, University of Southern Mississippi and other institutions say they've detected vast amounts of underwater oil, including an area roughly 50 miles from the spill site and as deep as 400 feet. Government must be clearly in charge of getting all the facts, not waiting for what BP decides to disclose and when.

2. We have no way to be sure BP is devoting enough resources to stopping the gusher. BP is now saying it has no immediate way to stop up the well until August, when a new "relief" well will reach the gushing well bore, enabling its engineers to install cement plugs. August? If government were in direct control of BP's north American assets, it would be able to devote whatever of those assets are necessary to stopping up the well right away.

3. BP's new strategy for stopping the gusher is highly risky. It wants to sever the leaking pipe cleanly from atop the failed blowout preventer, and then install a new cap so the escaping oil can be pumped up to a ship on the surface. But scientists say that could result in an even bigger volume of oil -- as much as 20 percent more -- gushing from the well. At least under government receivership, public officials would be directly accountable for weighing the advantages and disadvantages of such a strategy. As of now, company officials are doing the weighing. Which brings us to the fourth argument for temporary receivership.

4. Right now, the U.S. government has no authority to force BP to adopt a different strategy. Saturday, Energy Secretary Steven Chu and his team of scientists essentially halted BP's attempt to cap the spewing well with a process known as "top kill," which injected drilling mud and other materials to try to counter the upward pressure of the oil. Apparently the Administration team was worried that the technique would worsen the leak. But under what authority did the Administration act? It has none. Asked Sunday whether U.S. officials told BP to stop the top-kill attempt, Carol Browner, the White House environmental advisor, said, "We told them of our very, very grave concerns" about the danger. Expressing grave concerns is not enough. The President needs legal authority to order BP to protect the United States.

5. The President is not legally in charge. As long as BP is not under the direct control of the government he has no direct line of authority, and responsibility is totally confused. For example, listen for the "we" and "they" pronouns that were used by Carol Browner in response to a question on NBC's "Meet the Press" Sunday (emphasis added): "We're now going to move into a situation where they're going to attempt to control the oil that's coming out, move it to a vessel, take it onshore ....We always knew that the relief well was the permanent way to close this .... Now we move to the third option, which is to contain it. If [the new cap on the relief well is] a snug fit, then there could be very, very little oil. If they're not able to get as snug a fit, then there could be more. We're going to hope for the best and prepare for the worst." When you get pronoun confusion like this, you can bet on confusion -- both inside the Administration and among the public. There is no good reason why "they" are in charge of an operation of which "we" are hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.


The president should temporarily take over BP's Gulf operations. We have a national emergency on our hands. No president would allow a nuclear reactor owned by a private for-profit company to melt down in the United States while remaining under the direct control of that company. The meltdown in the Gulf is the environmental equivalent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/why-obama-should-put-bp-u_b_595346.html
 
What to do next???

By no means do we need government interfering with private business!

Let's just let the market decide!
 
You're giving BP way too much credit.
My words are not original. I have colleagues working the issue, first-hand.

There is a reason they are talking about taking on liabilities, and that's because there have been threats about changing the law that limits liabilities for them, even making their liabilities retroactive, and given what's happened there is no way opposition to the change would hold up.
And that would basically kill any company from ever doing anything again. It would also be legally questionable, ex-post-facto.

This is popularism at work. The reality is that most people are wholly under-exposed to the history and realities here. They are knee-jerk responding, instead of stopping to understand. Then again, I know many people who are complaining, yet they drive SUVs. As someone who has only driven 4 cylinders my entire life, I shake my head.

It's time for the federal government to put BP under temporary receivership, which gives the government authority to take over BP's operations in the Gulf of Mexico until the gusher is stopped. This is the only way the public will know what's going on, be confident enough resources are being put to stopping the gusher, ensure BP's strategy is correct, know the government has enough clout to force BP to use a different one if necessary, and be sure the president is ultimately in charge.
I think the US Coast Guard is already involved in this area. Again, based on Katrina exposure, the US Coast Guard is one of the few services of this nation that I can trust to be factual.

Not political.

If the government can take over giant global insurer AIG and the auto giant General Motors and replace their CEOs, in order to keep them financially solvent, it should be able to put BP's north American operations into temporary receivership in order to stop one of the worst environmental disasters in U.S. history.
So now we're advocating "nationalizing" corporations not just when they fail financially, but for other reasons.

Also remember that BP is a not an American entity. Anyone with BP stock pays the British Crown taxes can tell you this. ;)

The Obama administration keeps saying BP is in charge because BP has the equipment and expertise necessary to do what's necessary. But under temporary receivership, BP would continue to have the equipment and expertise. The only difference: the firm would unambiguously be working in the public's interest. As it is now, BP continues to be responsible primarily to its shareholders, not to the American public. As a result, the public continues to worry that a private for-profit corporation is responsible for stopping a public tragedy.
So this is yet another case were people are advocating "nationalizing" things.

And how well has that worked for the Mexican national oil company? South American nations that have the same? Have that adverted such? And why stop at oil companies? Why not put nuclear power plants under federal control, and get rid of caps on their liabilities? Subsidies for their insurance?

There is this assumption that the government always serves the people and corporations only serve shareholders. This is at the heart of not just the socialist movements, but has been a stable falicy of socialism-based governments, like communism. The government is not better. And the government will run corporations into the ground out of their utter ignorance of fiscal responsibility.

It's one thing to do it with GM and others that have failed fiscally. It's another to argue arbitrary reasons for take overs, such as "truth" and "liability." It's why every nation that has moved to such a model has produced a nation of less wealth and prosperity, without improving the environment at all.

That includes the non-US histories of "nationalized" petroleum and nuclear industries. Truth. ;)
 

Facetious

Moderated
Why Obama Should Put BP Under Temporary Receivership

by Robert Reich :thumbsup:

It's time for the federal government to put BP under temporary receivership, which gives the government authority to take over BP's operations in the Gulf of Mexico until the gusher is stopped. This is the only way the public will know what's going on, be confident enough resources are being put to stopping the gusher, ensure BP's strategy is correct, know the government has enough clout to force BP to use a different one if necessary, and be sure the president is ultimately in charge.

If the government can take over giant global insurer AIG and the auto giant General Motors and replace their CEOs, in order to keep them financially solvent, it should be able to put BP's north American operations into temporary receivership in order to stop one of the worst environmental disasters in U.S. history.

The Obama administration keeps saying BP is in charge because BP has the equipment and expertise necessary to do what's necessary. But under temporary receivership, BP would continue to have the equipment and expertise. The only difference: the firm would unambiguously be working in the public's interest. As it is now, BP continues to be responsible primarily to its shareholders, not to the American public. As a result, the public continues to worry that a private for-profit corporation is responsible for stopping a public tragedy.

Five reasons for taking such action:

1. We are not getting the truth from BP. BP has continuously and dramatically understated size of gusher. In the last few days, BP chief Tony Hayward has tried to refute reports from scientists that vast amounts of oil from the spill are spreading underwater. Hayward says BP's sampling shows "no evidence" oil is massing and spreading underwater across the Gulf. Yet scientists from the University of South Florida, University of Georgia, University of Southern Mississippi and other institutions say they've detected vast amounts of underwater oil, including an area roughly 50 miles from the spill site and as deep as 400 feet. Government must be clearly in charge of getting all the facts, not waiting for what BP decides to disclose and when.

2. We have no way to be sure BP is devoting enough resources to stopping the gusher. BP is now saying it has no immediate way to stop up the well until August, when a new "relief" well will reach the gushing well bore, enabling its engineers to install cement plugs. August? If government were in direct control of BP's north American assets, it would be able to devote whatever of those assets are necessary to stopping up the well right away.

3. BP's new strategy for stopping the gusher is highly risky. It wants to sever the leaking pipe cleanly from atop the failed blowout preventer, and then install a new cap so the escaping oil can be pumped up to a ship on the surface. But scientists say that could result in an even bigger volume of oil -- as much as 20 percent more -- gushing from the well. At least under government receivership, public officials would be directly accountable for weighing the advantages and disadvantages of such a strategy. As of now, company officials are doing the weighing. Which brings us to the fourth argument for temporary receivership.

4. Right now, the U.S. government has no authority to force BP to adopt a different strategy. Saturday, Energy Secretary Steven Chu and his team of scientists essentially halted BP's attempt to cap the spewing well with a process known as "top kill," which injected drilling mud and other materials to try to counter the upward pressure of the oil. Apparently the Administration team was worried that the technique would worsen the leak. But under what authority did the Administration act? It has none. Asked Sunday whether U.S. officials told BP to stop the top-kill attempt, Carol Browner, the White House environmental advisor, said, "We told them of our very, very grave concerns" about the danger. Expressing grave concerns is not enough. The President needs legal authority to order BP to protect the United States.

5. The President is not legally in charge. As long as BP is not under the direct control of the government he has no direct line of authority, and responsibility is totally confused. For example, listen for the "we" and "they" pronouns that were used by Carol Browner in response to a question on NBC's "Meet the Press" Sunday (emphasis added): "We're now going to move into a situation where they're going to attempt to control the oil that's coming out, move it to a vessel, take it onshore ....We always knew that the relief well was the permanent way to close this .... Now we move to the third option, which is to contain it. If [the new cap on the relief well is] a snug fit, then there could be very, very little oil. If they're not able to get as snug a fit, then there could be more. We're going to hope for the best and prepare for the worst." When you get pronoun confusion like this, you can bet on confusion -- both inside the Administration and among the public. There is no good reason why "they" are in charge of an operation of which "we" are hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.


The president should temporarily take over BP's Gulf operations. We have a national emergency on our hands. No president would allow a nuclear reactor owned by a private for-profit company to melt down in the United States while remaining under the direct control of that company. The meltdown in the Gulf is the environmental equivalent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/why-obama-should-put-bp-u_b_595346.html




YOU GO Robert Reichman! :D


 
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