Baseball World Series 2006

[pickles&cumquat]

I probably wouldn't fire Torre. I don't think he is a different manager than he was six years ago when the Yankees were great, and if I did it certainly wouldn't be with somebody like Lou Piniella like some reports are suggesting. I do sort of feel sorry for Alex Rodriguez. Clutch hitting is completely a myth and anti-clutchness is almost completely a myth also with maybe a few exceptions. His lack of hitting in the playoffs is probably almost due to small sample size and luck. Getting rid of him would be a mistake.

I totally have to disagree on the clutch hitting. Some guys rise to the occassion or get their hits when the game is on the line, or close, (pujhols, Ortiz, Jeter) and other guys like ARod still put up big numbers but they do so when the game is out of reach or not really close.

There is no doubt that both ARod and Jeter are going to the HOF, no debating that AROD produces better offensive numbers over the course of the year, HOWEVER, Jeter is a born leader and a winner, and ARod is too soft for NY and has never led his teams anywhere. I realize you can't do it alone, but I am smart enough to read ESPN comparisons of players in the clutch and its unfortunate that 25 million = choker, when in Jeter's case 20 mil = stud!

Oh and for the record, i can't stand the yanks, much less Jeter, or Arod, but being a baseball fan, I can appreciate reading between the so called stats

AROD needs to go back to Seattle or Texas, where he can pile up good numbers for teams which have no pressure. As for Jeter, if he becomes a Red Sox, I can forgive the remaining 1/2 of his career haha

:2 cents:

 

[D-rock]

I totally have to disagree on the clutch hitting. Some guys rise to the occassion or get their hits when the game is on the line, or close, (pujhols, Ortiz, Jeter) and other guys like ARod still put up big numbers but they do so when the game is out of reach or not really close.

There is no doubt that both ARod and Jeter are going to the HOF, no debating that AROD produces better offensive numbers over the course of the year, HOWEVER, Jeter is a born leader and a winner, and ARod is too soft for NY and has never led his teams anywhere. I realize you can't do it alone, but I am smart enough to read ESPN comparisons of players in the clutch and its unfortunate that 25 million = choker, when in Jeter's case 20 mil = stud!

Oh and for the record, i can't stand the yanks, much less Jeter, or Arod, but being a baseball fan, I can appreciate reading between the so called stats

AROD needs to go back to Seattle or Texas, where he can pile up good numbers for teams which have no pressure. As for Jeter, if he becomes a Red Sox, I can forgive the remaining 1/2 of his career haha

:2 cents:

There have been numerous studies done on clutch hitting. None of them have proven it to exist, at least not in baseball. Or I should more accurately say that clutch hitting hasn't been shown to be an ability that people have. It happens but that is more from a random convergence of events at the right time (basically it's luck) then people getting better. Even if you look at it in a simple way clutch hitting is one of these things.

Some mystic force that makes the players better in more important situations: unlikely

The player intentionally plays worse than his abilities allow in every situation other than in a clutch hitting situation to make it seem like he is doing better than normal: unlikely

The pitcher he is up against is having some sort of mental breakdown: happens rarely but probably not true and even less likely to happen to multiple pitchers just when they are pitching to you.

He was the recipient of good fortune: probably true.

It's like flipping a fair coin 10 times in a row and getting heads each time. It doesn't mean the 11th time you flip it has anything other than a 50% chance of landing on either face.

The problem I have with Jeter is the fact that leadership and clubhouse presence have about as much impact on winning as the ability to hit in the clutch, not very much. I shouldn't say this because it might upset all the New York fans, but Jeter is one of the most overrated players of the last 20 years. That doesn't mean he isn't good. I would say that he is still HOF material. However, you could argue that A-rod is actually worth that price; at least he would be if he still played shortstop (which is where he should be). Jeter isn't. Maybe for the Yankees but that is because they can afford to overpay. Jeter is also one of the worst defensive shortstops in history when taken over the course of his career (if not the worst). People have been worse, but they haven't lasted very long because they were bad. For most of his career if you gave him a letter grade for non-hitting performance at shortstop it would be in the D to D- range. You could argue that he should have never had the position to begin with, and when one compares his career performance to other positions that aren't as critical defensively his stats don't look quite as impressive as they normally do. Plus a lot of the team player aspect I liked in Jeter disappeared when A-rod came over and he didn't want to move to some other position for the benefit of the team.

What really is the Yankees problem is the front office. They have a lot of money, but instead of using that to its full advantage they let it become an excuse to make really stupid decisions. Because they build off of free agents, there farm system is always week. They overpay for a lot of over the hill former star players or players just entering the last years of their prime and expect them to have the success of the past all throughout their contract. Look at all the old players they have had that have become a liability at one time or another, Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson, Jason Giambi, Sheffield, eve Mussina now and the list goes on. In fact their entire team is incredibly old. They also have invested in a lot of people that have come off of career years that were probably flukes, and then they are surprised when they don't perform. One of the biggest advantages to having the money the Yankees have is that it allows you to make mistakes like that and get away with it, but there probably comes a point where even the Yankees run out of money, plus there is only so many roster spots available anyhow. So for every aged veteran that is way past his prime that means you don't have a young person developing. It worked for a while but I think there came a point where things like that keep them from making that last little push they needed. That and the fact for the past six or so years the Yankees have been a little unlucky. It seemed they were a few hits away from some world series in that time and came close to winning one. There is nothing you can do to control that except hope it doesn't happen next time. Baseball is like that because of its low scoring nature. If the worst team in the league faces the best in football we expect a blowout. In college it would be even worse. In basketball we would expect the same thing, but in baseball if the Yankees face the worst team and only win by the score of 1 to 3 nobody is surprised. The fact is that most of the time even the worst team still has a 20% to 40% of winning the game. In other sports that just doesn't happen but in baseball that means sometime the best team doesn't win. Having a best of 5 or 7 game series helps mitigate that but there is always a chance something goes wrong.

 

[pickles&cumquat]

Wow long post.... and some of your points are well taken.... I will adress as i see fit

Jeter is going to the hall on HITTING alone. He has 2200 hits and is on pace for over 3000...which means automatic entry as long as your name isn't Rose (which is another blunder by baseball) He's been to the playoffs every year he has been in the league (AFAIK) and he's the all time playoff hit leader IIRC, oh and he has more rings than many of the rappers out there. Although his range isn't what it used to be, and there are far better defensive shortstops, i have never seen him be given a D or D- in any scouting reports...but i dont like the yankees so maybe that is how i missed it haha.

AROD isn't worth 25 mil and Jeter isn't worth 20....and either is Manny being Manny at 20 either. HOWEVER, you are worth whatever someone is willing to pay you.

NOT every yankee pickup is a bad thing, Giambi has turned his power numbers around, although his average isn't what it used to be. Matsui wasn't such a bad pickup. Clemens won a CY and two Championships during his 5 years with the yanks. But i digress, i will agree that their farm is weak, and their money covers their mistakes in the regular season.

They are the victum of bad luck, or are they the victum of other teams clutch hitting, or dominant pitching. Pitching rules baseball. If your pitcher is on, the hitter is seeing a dancing golfball, if he is off, it comes in like a floating beachball, which is why unlike other team sports, the records in baseball are rarely much over .600

It's not mythiical that some players do RISE to the occassion. It happens in many sports.

As for leadership, i remember an article from a reporter about Roger Clemens, in his first year with the Redsox. How he followed Tom Seaver around like a puppy dog, soaking in as much knowledge as possible in that one year that he played with him. Now you hear reporters saying the same thing about Clemens' influence on younger pitchers. That is a form of leadership

Winners influence others and have an amazing ability to lead by example which can catch on like an epidemic.

Baseball is a game of statistics unlike any other sport, the ability to come up with hits when runners are in scoring position with less than two outs is by definition clutch hitting. Having a 10 pitch at bat fouling pitch after pitch off to protect the plate, to finally see a pitch you can drive is clutch hitting.

Now admittedly, the advantage is with the pitcher in baseball, it always has been and always will be. How do you explain Griffey JR success off Clemens or ARods success of Clemens and both McGuire and Canseco's utter failure off the same pitcher????

Perhaps we agree to disagree on this point..which is fine, All i know is this, if i were putting my team together, I would take Pujhols over AROD, NOT because he is that much better statistically, (although he is now the best player in the game hands down) or younger. He is simply a better hitter when the game is on the line. Until Arod comes up with the hits that win important games, he will forever be a choker and remembered as a guy who put up great stats, but who couldn't get it done when it mattered most. 1 RBI in the last two post seasons????? for 25 million...I think not

anyways, the debate is great.... i just love baseball and my Red Sox

 

[Irony]

Nyy

 

[Beliel]

Irony, are you still on for your Milf Of The Year Thread, 'cause it seems like you don't vote anymore.

 

[TheSatyrIcon]

I'll go with the Detroit Tigers....

The Satyr Icon

 

[DetroitCity]

Kenny Rogers, another beauty of a game. Absolute masterpiece. One more, and we're goin to the World Series!!

 

[jumbo_jim]

Mets trail 2-1 in there series to see who will play the Tigers in World Series.

 

[clonevs]

The problem I have with Jeter is the fact that leadership and clubhouse presence have about as much impact on winning as the ability to hit in the clutch, not very much. I shouldn't say this because it might upset all the New York fans, but Jeter is one of the most overrated players of the last 20 years. That doesn't mean he isn't good. I would say that he is still HOF material. However, you could argue that A-rod is actually worth that price; at least he would be if he still played shortstop (which is where he should be). Jeter isn't. Maybe for the Yankees but that is because they can afford to overpay. Jeter is also one of the worst defensive shortstops in history when taken over the course of his career (if not the worst). People have been worse, but they haven't lasted very long because they were bad. For most of his career if you gave him a letter grade for non-hitting performance at shortstop it would be in the D to D- range. You could argue that he should have never had the position to begin with, and when one compares his career performance to other positions that aren't as critical defensively his stats don't look quite as impressive as they normally do. Plus a lot of the team player aspect I liked in Jeter disappeared when A-rod came over and he didn't want to move to some other position for the benefit of the team.

What really is the Yankees problem is the front office. They have a lot of money, but instead of using that to its full advantage they let it become an excuse to make really stupid decisions. Because they build off of free agents, there farm system is always week.

WOW! Ok you seriously just spouted a ton of "opinions" that were pretty much totally off base and out of touch with reality. You sprinkled in things like "you could argue" and "compared to others" but you never listed a statistic.
It's great to have opinion's but hold on for a second.
I didn't paste your whole post, (I could argue with about the entire post) just highlighted 2 points you made.

First, about the farm system and front office. Uh, no there farm system is not always weak. Just on this yrs team were two farm system guys: Cano / Posado. Oh, and Cabrera played alot. Oh, and Jeter is a farm system guy.
That bad front office and all the money they spend to make "stupid decisions". That's easy to sight Brown / Johnson. How have other's like Matsui, Giambi, Mussina done for them? Wanna go further back? How about getting free-agents / veterans like O'Neil / Martinez / Brosius. Stupid? Or should they have developed farm guys? No wait, Bernie was on those teams, he's a farm guy.


Ok, you said Jeter...LOL.....LOL..."is one of the worst defensive shortstops in history when taken over the course of his career"
Oh man. You might be trying to prove a point, but that is laughable. A-Rod was definitely better at the position overall, but Jeter is no slouch. What you kinda did was look at where Jeter ranked behind ARod/Nomar/Vizquel in the 90's and somehow said Jeter was "one of the worst" ...well, you said he was a bad shortstop. That's just crazy. C'mon. He has probably the best range in today's game at that position. He's got a pretty strong arm. And he's unflappable. You couldn't find an MLB mngr alive that would say Jeter is not in the top10 of today's shortstops in the league ....that's WAAAAAAAY better than one of the worst in history.
One thing about Jeter is timely hitting. You said clubhouse leadership and stuff don't equate to winning, and I "think" you mentioned clutch hitting.
BS on the clutch hitting. Jeter is notorius for extending inning's. That is clutch. So many parts of your post to argue with. I'll end it there. These are just my opinion's.

 

[DetroitCity]

personally, i think we need to stop talking about the yankees and REJOICE ABOUT THE TIGERS! WOOOOOHHOOOOO!

THE TIGERS.....ARE GOING...... TO THE................ WORLD SERIES!!!

 

[ThatRedWing]

personally, i think we need to stop talking about the yankees and REJOICE ABOUT THE TIGERS! WOOOOOHHOOOOO!

THE TIGERS.....ARE GOING...... TO THE................ WORLD SERIES!!!

Yeah Buddy! artysml:

 

[ThatRedWing]

My dream match up would be the Tigers VS. Cards with Detroit winning.
Yes I know they don't stand a chance but that's what they said about the Sox last year.

Oh my god they did it. GO TIGERS! :crowdgrin

 

[LordVader66]

I did not think the Tigers and the Cards would be in the series. I wish both teams the best of luck!

 

[DetroitCity]

I wonder what the order of rotations are going to be for both teams. carpenter pitched wednesday night, so he probably can't open saturday night. and for the tigers, rogers has started game 3 in the series against yankees and A's, but those were home games. will leyland put rogers game 1 or 2 at home? who else? he has so many options available

 

[Iamforever]

even though i have nothing against detroit, it is hard to see a division rival win the title. will it be as hard as watching the white sox win? no, but hard just the same. so, by this logic, i will be rooting for the team that has a shortstop with the twelve year old arm. i really think that i have a better arm than eckstein.

indians in 07.:thumbsup:

 

[jumbo_jim]

Although it shows I know nothing about Baseball by getting both my predictions wrong, it is nice to see unfashinable teams in the World Series. Just hope it goes to 7 games.

 

[DetroitCity]

although it would be great if the tigers won in 4 or 5, i'd love to see them win it in 6 or 7 so they can win at home. that would be perfect. :weeping: GO TIGERS! No matter what, #1!

looks like verlander is the game 1 starter

 

[D-rock]

At least the Tigers winning will make all the fans here happy. Remember when the AL central baseball teams used to suck? Now they might win back-to-back World Series.

 

[Iamforever]

At least the Tigers winning will make all the fans here happy. Remember when the AL central baseball teams used to suck? Now they might win back-to-back World Series.

those were the good ole days. no competition. just a cakewalk into the playoffs. hmmm, maybe thats why cleveland lost two world series. well, they had one stolen.

 

[member987]

even though i have nothing against detroit, it is hard to see a division rival win the title.

I have to disagree with this statement :wave:

I root for my team and then the teams within the division and then the teams within the league (IF, my team is not in the thick of things). My thoughts are, if my team can't win it all then I want the teams that beat my team out, ie. divisonal rival, league rival to win it.

Just my :2 cents:

:glugglug:

That being said, I just want to see a good series. I really can't stand Joe Buck (or his father - Jack Buck- former Cardinal's broadcaster), though!

:glugglug: