assault weapons ban!!
- Thread starter glk35
- Start date
Yes, it's another strong proof that Police aren't Supermen with the capability to save the world and protect everyone from the bad guys all by themselves.
While I wouldn't attempt to point a finger, I think it illustrates how mindless the political belief is that suggests gun control is a viable deterent to crime and that the Police are the capable ones handling guns for our defense.
A friend is a precision target handgun shooter and an airline pilot. He laughs at the idea that pilots aren't trained in firearms well enough to defend an airliner in flight.
While I wouldn't attempt to point a finger, I think it illustrates how mindless the political belief is that suggests gun control is a viable deterent to crime and that the Police are the capable ones handling guns for our defense.
A friend is a precision target handgun shooter and an airline pilot. He laughs at the idea that pilots aren't trained in firearms well enough to defend an airliner in flight.
P-38 Lightning had weapons on it, I have one too!
(I just felt the need to acknowledge your siggy!)
(I just felt the need to acknowledge your siggy!)
Did I do the quote thing correctly?
Anyways, I don't really agree with that bit. I'm from Finland, and I believe we have at least, maybe even more, guns per capita than the US (mostly hunting weapons though) and pretty much everyone knows how to use them. Our murder rates aren't too bad, and very very few are done with firearms... we's stabby people. It's not the absence of suitable weapons that ensures low murder rates... it's a cultural thing IMHO
in America, where gun crime is one of the leading causes of death, the #1 way to murder, and a huge, huge problem, making guns illegal *would* save thousands and thousands of lives every year. That's my point. :thumbsup:
And well done on the quote. Perfect job.
Sorry again lefty, bad guys will always have guns.
Who own ak47 and other mp5 that are stolen and that have no class 3 license or concealed carried weapon permit? Scumbags who are in gangs and other lowlifes selling crack and other shit. Bad focused people will always buy weapons through illegal channels. Therefore, it is a necessity for the honest citizen to have the right to buy a gun and defend himself because law enforcement isn't everywhere. Illegal firearms are causing more death than legal acquired firearms and certainly not the opposite. Don't worry about England, one day or another the people will have to own firearms.In France people were entitled to have a defense weapon permit till 1994 but Chirac canceled it. The situation is just going worse and worse and one day honest citizens will have to be armed as well.
It's absolutely about life and death, and poverty or lives. People are so fanatical and passionate about it because it might very well be our most important right. Could you imagine in the past the leaders actually given their citizens the right to arm themselves, it would have been unthinkable because then they would have no control over the populace. Our right is the keeper of all the rest of our liberties, and without it all the others are just words on a piece of paper that are ripe to be taken away in the future. Now, what part of that can't people understand? Everything else we always have a chance to fight back if we need to. In the end, it's what makes are liberties reality. It's what guarantees government of, by, and for the people. Our right to cast a vote sure as hell doesn't do that for us; to think that is to be a fool. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Our right to defend ourselves was not given to us, but merely recognized as something that exist for all people, for a very good reason.
Let me ask everybody this. Given everything you know about history, human nature, and the way our government works is there any reason NOT TO BELIEVE that we will move closer to an Orwellian society?
I'm also amazed that some of the most distrustful people of the government we have in our society are some of the most firmly anti-gun people we have. It's like they had a lobotomy and removed a part of their brain that controls common sense. They don't like the government but when it comes to protecting their liberties their philosophy is to, "just trust them".
I swear some people in this country have lived too soft and cushy lives. I guess when you never have to suffer and sacrifice, dumb ideas will come up, not to mention the shear complacency and apathy that makes me embarrassed to be an American most of the time. If you were the one that had to suffer, bleed, and die for nothing more than the hope that your children and other countryman’s decedents could breath free I wonder how much you would take the tenuous grip, and it is tenuous, on your freedoms for granted. An untold amount of people had to go thorough an unthinkable amount of hardship to give us what we have, but it won’t take but a relative instant to take that all away from us. I have neither forgotten about them or what they have done for me even if they never knew me or I wasn’t even born yet. If that is ok with any of you, fine, go ahead and make yourselves and people like you victims. Comfort yourselves in the selfish notion of the little bit of temporary security you’ve think you’ve gained by sacrificing your future and the future of your next generations. Just make sure you leave people like me the hell alone and whatever you do don’t tell us what we should be doing or what we should have. One way or another I nor my children, nor their children’s children any future people will not live like that. Even if that means they only have the means and tools to die free and not live as a slave. I plan to give them that option. Maybe if you are lucky, extremely lucky, someday those future people like me will come and save the stupid people’s asses, even if they don’t deserve it, after we have taken care of everybody that actually wanted to fight for their liberties. Not that I will shed to many tears if they don’t.
Yes, because when somebody is enraged enough to kill or is calculating enough to plan out killing another human being we all know that extra 2 seconds it takes to run and get a baseball bat or a knife or some other object, assuming they don't have one on them, is such a hindrance.
Post statistics or any serious proof of gun crime committed by legally owned firearms and illegally owned firearms. Seriously do you honestly think that someone who has many experience at the range will kill his her neighbour /friends?????
You know who is scared about weapons people who never fired a real gun.The only people who want to ban guns are hilary and ignorant alikes and who are noobs at life when it comes to guns.Just because you don't hear news about France in USA that it doesn't mean that there are not people who doesn't want the old defense permit reinstated back. Guns are necessary especially when a town becomes too full of scum and especially when law enforcement can't be there all the time, it is the honest citizen's task to defend himself and his neighbours. None will mourn a scumbag who was shot by robbing a house. Scum desserves death and no forgiveness.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
********** said:
Well ya know, you've pissed a lot of people of with your points of view...but this is America...so it's your right. I will leave you with this though...
Would you rather they were pushed out of a window...or stabbed...or ran over by a car? You by YOUR OWN ADMISSION have stated you like to drive fast...if you were to be involved in a traffic accident, and it killed my wife, or another loved one...do you think it would comfort me in any way, that you didn't shoot her?!?! Dead is dead...and your argument that the things I've listed weren't designed to kill is an unacceptable argument...knives were designed for more then cutting steaks...and what a product is used for, as opposed to what it's supposed to be used for provides the victim, or there families very little comfort.
I'm from New Hampshire USA - we have the right to by a gun as long as we have a New Hampshire drivers license.
that's all it takes to get a weapon here.
I myself own a number of swords a daggers never had an occasion to use them other than slicing oranges and potatoes in the back yard, some people I know do some shooting some with assault rifles .
when ever I here of a murder around here - it's usually a stabbing with a kitchen knife - running over with a truck, and the most popular is beating or strangling with bare hands.
I've noticed that the number of murders have increased around here with the increase of people on prescription medication.
and just about every time the news reports mention something about the perpetrator being off his medication, when ever it happens close by the story amongst the local yocals is he was after money so he could get his meds.
why don't we ban that crap it ruins lives as well as kills people.
yet the government will even flip the bill for someone to get on the medication - but won't do jack about helping someone get proper cancer treatment or health care.
It's nothing more than a token gesture by the federal government so they can say they care and get the votes from the feel good body politic.
it's a joke in about 5 years time it will be repealed and the assault weapons will be back.
that's all it takes to get a weapon here.
I myself own a number of swords a daggers never had an occasion to use them other than slicing oranges and potatoes in the back yard, some people I know do some shooting some with assault rifles .
when ever I here of a murder around here - it's usually a stabbing with a kitchen knife - running over with a truck, and the most popular is beating or strangling with bare hands.
I've noticed that the number of murders have increased around here with the increase of people on prescription medication.
and just about every time the news reports mention something about the perpetrator being off his medication, when ever it happens close by the story amongst the local yocals is he was after money so he could get his meds.
why don't we ban that crap it ruins lives as well as kills people.
yet the government will even flip the bill for someone to get on the medication - but won't do jack about helping someone get proper cancer treatment or health care.
It's nothing more than a token gesture by the federal government so they can say they care and get the votes from the feel good body politic.
it's a joke in about 5 years time it will be repealed and the assault weapons will be back.
you did not just post somthing about brady that fucker is like micheal moore cant believe a single thing that they say, their statistics are so fuck up.
BYE- BYE
The term "assault rifle" is a mis-nomer and those of us who know the difference should stop using the term unless talking about a full auto military rifle. That terminology is worse than asking for a Coke and getting a Pepsi, as it's a political tool used by anti gun legislators and the media to support their gun ban agenda.
Most of those statistics are flawed because they never count the times that a gun is used for self-defense when it is not even fired. For example when you show an intruder or somebody about to mug you your gun and he runs away. That is estimated to happen around 98% of the time. Even more conservative estimates place it well over 90%. That means the vast vast majority of evidence is conveniently not used when anti-gun advocates want to talk about how your more likely to hurt a family member than protect yourself from an intruder. Do the anti-gunners know they're doing that when they make them, you bet your ass they do.
On another note, a lot of anti-gun people will use shady methods of info gathering when presenting their statistics(they are the grandmasters of it in fact, worse than any other group I have ever come across, makes me glad baseball sabremetrics got me into the proper use of statistics a long time ago). Like they will list "children" in their statistics using people up the age of 24 as one example.
It also assumes that people wouldn't kill with other things if a gun were not available. The gun is used because it's the most convenient out of a lot of convenient things. I have a hard time believing the husband killing the wife incidents wouldn't almost be the same. In fact a gun might be the only thing that could reasonably give a smaller weaker woman an equalizer. The only significant thing a absense gun might prevent are the mass 30 people type killings, which despite the stereotype America has is EXTREAMLY rare. It also doesn't count the fact that in mass killings if only one or two people that were victims had their own gun they probably would have saved everybody else from being killed.
That also doesn't count things like the fact the way prosecutors handle cases that it's almost impossible to have a "justifiable homicide" anymore short of somebody already having a knife stuck in your heart and about to kill you. In reality they pretty much assume your guilty and you have to prove yourself innocent, or that you had no other choice. You wouldn't think it would be that way but it is. I also wonder how many of those places were in states that didn't have any "Castle Doctrine" laws in place when they did that. To people like the Brady Campaign there is pretty much no justifiable reason for homicide at all.
OK, so if the majority of the people decided tomorrow to bring back slavery or to eliminate free speech, or to kill off everybody of Asian decent would that be ok with you? After all that would be giving the people what they want. By the way...if you believe those things aren't right and should never happen than what are you basing it on? You complain that pro-gunners have an almost religious like devotion to their right, but what would you use to justify the prevention of the other things that I listed if there wasn't some universal truth that make them,...well true. Is it that unbelievable that there is a universal truth to self-defense to yourself and your liberties?
So, you’re going on hope instead of something that can actually keep you safe. Golly geeze that doesn't sound like a very smart plan to me. I wonder if the Jews during WWII thought that way. Maybe they should have gone on a hunger strike to ease their harsh treatment.
You can think whatever you want, but saying "if you believe guns should be outlawed, you must have had an easy life" is basically the most ignorant and stereotypical thing you have ever said, D-Rock, and really, really surprises me. I love how people think they can take someone's point of view, and make some personal comment about what kind of lives they must have lived. It's just so unthinkable that someone might genuinely see something very differently than you, and might have used logic just like you did, to analyze things... no, they must have "not been there" and "not know what it's like", otherwise, obviously, they'd feel just like you. Of course. That must be it.
If that is the case and you have lived a harsh life and had to make supreme scarifies, and you still think the way you do, then I think your ideas are even more foolish than ever before. I assumed the vast majority of people that had to go through that think like that because they have common sense. Just like most people that look up at the sky say it's blue.
Give it time, all things change. That will to. All it takes is a lifetime or two. Convienent you should forget that not that long ago in history England wasn't that free and people didn't have as much freedoms. I guess that doesn't count. In any case I argue agains the goverment when I think it's wrong. If I didn't it's probably because I never checked in the thread in the first place.
Refer to my first section of responses.
It's economic. You did notice that in Europe they have things like free health care and they don't treat the downtrodden as crappy as they do over here in most of greater countries. A lot of the places have a better educational system. That isn't a guns fault, but taking them away to try to fix that is a half-assed solution to that problem. Yes when you live in the ghetto all your life and you have no hope and a gang is your only real family, or your out in the country and you live on the fringe where one small bad event could screw you over I can see why some people would assume easy money through crime might be their only way out. Not that I justify it or condone it, but I would say that is a much bigger reason for their being more violence in America than in other European countries.
thats not saying much.
The Right To Self Defense
By Murray Rothbard
[excerpted from chapter 12 of The Ethics of Liberty]
Full article
If it is "selfish" to be concerned about the safety of the self and ones loved ones and family - then I am "selfish".
Possession is not a crime - else all men could be locked up for possessing a penis and a brain for they could be used to commit rape.
Self defense is my birth right and I shall have it. I don't need the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, on some idiot on the street to tell me "it's ok to own guns".
I can and I will because I am free and responsible for my actions.
The highest law of the land merely re-affirms (read that word again. It doesn't "grant". It "re-affirms") the Rights I own just by virtue of birth.
It is a Right. Not a Priviledge. Not an entitlement.
A RIGHT.
I don't need anyone's permission on what I can or cannot own as property - I am not your serf, servant or slave.
I don't need anyone's permission on how to protect me or my family - those are my responsibilities, not yours.
Keep your grubby little paws off me and mind your own business, and I'll do likewise.
For this is still the land of the free...
cheers,
By Murray Rothbard
[excerpted from chapter 12 of The Ethics of Liberty]
Full article
If it is "selfish" to be concerned about the safety of the self and ones loved ones and family - then I am "selfish".
Possession is not a crime - else all men could be locked up for possessing a penis and a brain for they could be used to commit rape.
Self defense is my birth right and I shall have it. I don't need the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, on some idiot on the street to tell me "it's ok to own guns".
I can and I will because I am free and responsible for my actions.
The highest law of the land merely re-affirms (read that word again. It doesn't "grant". It "re-affirms") the Rights I own just by virtue of birth.
It is a Right. Not a Priviledge. Not an entitlement.
A RIGHT.
I don't need anyone's permission on what I can or cannot own as property - I am not your serf, servant or slave.
I don't need anyone's permission on how to protect me or my family - those are my responsibilities, not yours.
Keep your grubby little paws off me and mind your own business, and I'll do likewise.
For this is still the land of the free...
cheers,
Hiya, fox.
Could you be more specific about what those hundred liberties that have been taken away are?
Even in terms of the threat of such, take a look at the political climate in the US today: The Bush Republicans (I presume you envision them as the primary usurpers of our liberties - correct me if I'm wrong) are on the run. Each day they are coming more and more under the microscope. Rumsfeld resigned. They lost both the house and senate in the midterm elections. It seems pretty clear we ARE actively taking issue with our government, and about far more than just the 2nd amendment.
I don't get this either?
Seems like logically it should be just the opposite.
Your basic point is not lost, but 100% is not a realistic guesstimate.
Well said. What a wonderful thing it would be if noble words and ideals were protection enough. Unfortunately the lesson of history is that they sometimes aren't.
I don't "rant about it". I "do something" about it.
I vote libertarian.
I'm supporting Rep. Ron Paul in his run for Presidency in 2008. I supported Mr. Badnarik the last times around. I stay in touch with the Liberty Caucus and the Libertarian Party in my state.
I opposed the local anti-smoking bill when it was introduced in the town council - and I wrote an editorial/guest comment in the newspaper as to why it is the morally right thing to do.
When I'm not busy working at the hospital or during my volunteer time as a paramedic, I try and educate people about the role of the Constitution. About how Congress/Legislature ... not the Executive; must set policy (instead of the ass backwards way it is now). I am especially concerned about our runaway debt and try urging people to see reason - that the welfare/warfare state will be the ruin of us all. I am not an economist, but my brother is one and I've used his help to understand the system better.
I contribute articles/ideas/opinions to http://www.reason.com
I attend and participate in re-enactment events celebrating our Revolutionary War, because I understand and acknowledge that our history is very important and it must be preserved for future generations to learn and enjoy.
These are my modest contributions - others have done far, far more. I admit that I put my kids and my wife first, my job second and my activism third.
cheers,
PS: "Ranting about the hundred other liberties being taken away" in a thread about the 2nd Amendment is off-topic.
There are a hundred and one other topics out there about how our other rights are being stripped away. A casual search of this board will very easily reveal what my stand is on any issue - including drug use or abuse.
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