Arizona Immigration Bill PASSES!!

[placenta]

Just put CHUCK NORRIS at the border...

THEN NO ONE could get in illegally...

(hell- no one would try to get in illegally...)

 

[Philbert]

Like I said before, first of all I said "if". Meaning the premise of my post based on supposition having not read the specific language but general descriptions. Got it now (since you didn't bother reading the first time as usual)???

You love using a lot of almost true statements to make it seem as though you actually know something...but you are so busted. The bill is easily available online, so there isn't any reason other than you don't care what's true or not...de Dems don't like it, that's enough for you!
I read easily what you wrote...and it is the usual crap.
1) wording is specific, I even posted it for you to ignore...
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON
26 EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION.

2)Why comment specifically when you admit you only have other dufus's slanted opinions to go on? Jeez...and you try to paint me as the "dumb" one...that shoe has your size written all over it.

As the most fervent but least successful hair-splitter on the site, your attempt to make it seem like others aren't reading carefully enough failed miserably ...you missed completely the statement I carefully made...maybe a night school course in reading comprehension?

Originally Posted by Philbert
The courts have found the action legal for a state to enforce a Fed law...too bad for illegals and the New Dem voter base...

Originally misstated by HotMega
This law hasn't been challenged yet. What are you talking about?

(I pasted this as slowly as I could...you should be able to keep up!)

According to Time Magazine: "Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law professor...helped write the legislation [SB 1070]. He believes it will withstand constitutional challenge...'There are some things that states can do and some that states can't do, but this law threads the needle perfectly...In the bill, Arizona only penalizes what is already a crime under federal law,' says Kobach, a Yale Law School graduate and onetime counsel to former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft. 'That constitutes concurrent enforcement in legal terms, which the courts have said is permissible.'"
Did you miss anything else in what was written in Arizona, or in my post?

You'll have to reread on your own time, but I hope I helped some...your state of ignorance must be quite trying for someone so pompous...:rofl:

 

[Hot Mega]

You love using a lot of almost true statements to make it seem as though you actually know something...but you are so busted. The bill is easily available online, so there isn't any reason other than you don't care what's true or not...de Dems don't like it, that's enough for you!
I read easily what you wrote...and it is the usual crap.
1) wording is specific, I even posted it for you to ignore...
FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON
26 EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION.

Cutting through the mumbo jumbo...it boils down to a reasonable suspicion someone is here illegally. This the only relevant change, it is now a probable cause standard. I don't expect you to understand and this is not intended to alter your position or impression because facts never do.

The previous standard for checking a person's ID was prima facie, tangible cause for suspicion of a crime for which LE makes contact then determines (among other things) the person's ID. Not merely checking their ID for evidence of a crime. Virtually no different from looking at someone then checking someone's ID against outstanding wants and warrants. Explaining it a little different, even if you're out driving late at night, you look like you just came from a bar or nightclub it's probably reasonable to suspect the driver may have had drinks. They would still however need probable cause to pull you over to check to see if you had been drinking. In other words, the cop couldn't simply look at you presume you are leaving a party and pull you over to check if you've been drinking. Again, you won't comprehend the difference...others who read this will.

(I pasted this as slowly as I could...you should be able to keep up!)

According to Time Magazine: "Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri-Kansas City School of Law professor...helped write the legislation [SB 1070]. He believes it will withstand constitutional challenge...'There are some things that states can do and some that states can't do, but this law threads the needle perfectly...In the bill, Arizona only penalizes what is already a crime under federal law,' says Kobach, a Yale Law School graduate and onetime counsel to former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft. 'That constitutes concurrent enforcement in legal terms, which the courts have said is permissible.'"
Did You Miss anything else in what was written in Arizona, or in my post?

You'll have to reread on your own time, but I hope I helped some...your state of ignorance must be quite trying for someone so pompous...:rofl:

The courts have found the action legal for a state to enforce a Fed law.

Talk about hair splitting. The bottom line is the courts haven't reviewed this particular law as they are always reviewed case by case when challenged.

You citing a couple of eggheads who aren't on the USSC isn't evidence of the court finding this law to be constitutional.

 

[Philbert]

Cutting through the mumbo jumbo...it boils down to a reasonable suspicion someone is here illegally. This the only relevant change, it is now a probable cause standard. I don't expect you to understand and this is not intended to alter your position or impression because facts never do.

The previous standard for checking a person's ID was prima facie, tangible cause for suspicion of a crime for which LE makes contact then determines (among other things) the person's ID. Not merely checking their ID for evidence of a crime. Virtually no different from looking at someone then checking someone's ID against outstanding wants and warrants. Again, you won't comprehend the difference...others who read this will.



Talk about hair splitting. The bottom line is the courts haven't reviewed this particular law as they are always reviewed case by case when challenged.

You citing a couple of eggheads who aren't on the USSC isn't evidence of the court finding this law to be constitutional.

Damn fine two-faced positing there!
Nowhere did I say the courts have found this law OK...just that there isn't any apparent reason to do so, in spite of your inaccurate claims of racial or prejudical ethnic characteristics as probable cause...you keep ignoring the specific language here..."FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE ...etc
While I know you will continue to pretend those defining words aren't there, that alone makes this BS you keep propounding about Mexican eyes or some other nonsense being enough Prob Cause to stop someone and demand ID for Citizenship Status, not a factor...and any unreasonable use of the Law will result in serious consequences, most likely.
UberLibs like you are all over this like flies on shit...and nothing is gonna get by ya'll's beady UberLib eyes.
So there will be careful enforcement and I PRAY more states do the same damn thing...while you carry on pointing out how fine a job the Feds have done keeping millions more of illegals out (good thing too...we aren't ready for a billion illegals, the 10,000,000+ are way too many as it is!).:rofl:
When an American can expect an illegal undercutting the work Americans need to have, to pay bills and support their families, will be gone soon after they're discovered, then the Fed will be doing their job. As of now...BS. The Feds have let illegals run rampant and only you and a few others have no clue this is a problem.

 

[Hot Mega]

Damn fine two-faced positing there!
Nowhere did I say the courts have found this law OK...just that there isn't any apparent reason to do so, in spite of your inaccurate claims of racial or prejudical ethnic characteristics as probable cause...you keep ignoring the specific language here..."FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
23 THIS STATE ...etc
While I know you will continue to pretend those defining words aren't there, that alone makes this BS you keep propounding about Mexican eyes or some other nonsense being enough Prob Cause to stop someone and demand ID for Citizenship Status, not a factor...and any unreasonable use of the Law will result in serious consequences, most likely.
UberLibs like you are all over this like flies on shit...and nothing is gonna get by ya'll's beady UberLib eyes.
So there will be careful enforcement and I PRAY more states do the same damn thing...while you carry on pointing out how fine a job the Feds have done keeping millions more of illegals out (good thing too...we aren't ready for a billion illegals, the 10,000,000+ are way too many as it is!).:rofl:
When an American can expect an illegal undercutting the work Americans need to have, to pay bills and support their families, will be gone soon after they're discovered, then the Fed will be doing their job. As of now...BS. The Feds have let illegals run rampant and only you and a few others have no clue this is a problem.

That's one element, is essentially no change from existing law and only rewritten for overlapping purposes. (Kindergarten speak: So the law would continue to cover existing elements.)

Like I said before, this is the relevant change;

23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES

AGAIN, explain for the audience how one can have a reasonable suspicion a person is here illegally without any other contact other than observation?

I don't expect you to answer....this is just for the record. :wave:

 

[Sparky Shortz]

Although we are not citing Mexican's specifically as there are many others, the number you quote Philbert is closer to 30,000,000+ but it is suppressed by the Open Border Lobbyists.

There is, believe it or not, a Mexican population in several states that don't have a border with Mexico...anywhere they could flock to and get along doing jobs Americans won't do (for $6 an hour)...Wisconsin has a big Mexican pop, Tennessee, several others...
Ya don't fit 10,000,000+ illegals in just a few states.

 

[Sparky Shortz]

If you're not an illegal in this country and have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. I still have to show ID when I buy cigarettes or beer and I'm way over the age limit...so...what's the big deal

I also want to point out that Jan Brewer was not elected Governor, but only gained the position because the previous Governor left to Become Obama's head of homeland security.

So Arizonans are being bound to a law put in place by someone that we didn't even fucking vote for. That stinks.

I'm sad to see Arizona going down the can by pandering to the most short-sighted reactionaries. Another recent bill that she passed was to allow concealed firearms without a permit- which of course was salivated over by gun nuts- and takes away that previous source of revenue for the state that is spiraling toward bankruptcy.

Speaking of which Brewer failed to muster enough support to get a sales tax increase pushed through; her only plan to help the economy (I thought Republicans oppose taxes?). So what is she doing now? Blame it all on Illegal Immigrants and distract the public away from the fact that Arizona has nothing to balance the budget, except a new law that does nothing to prevent people from Illegally Immigrating here in the first place and wastes even more state and local money processing them through the civil court system, instead of leaving it up to the federal ICE.

The cops really have no way of identifying whether someone is an illegal immigrant, but to stop and ask them, so how on Earth can she say that this won't effect American citizens? It will effect everyone.

I'm not defending illegal immigrants, I just object to the fact that I'm an American citizen that has (or used to have) the right to protection against unlawful search and seizure and now I have to prove it just because the state wants to know.

What happened until innocent until proven guilty? Guess that's gone too. Now it's presumed guilty of being an illegal immigrant until proven innocent.

 

[Sparky Shortz]

Men, women, children, police officers in America are being killed, raped, etc. plus the illegals have the luxury of food stamps, medical treatment and housing on us American workers hard earned dollars...

i assume the crimes that you might be mentioning of would be drug trafficking. You do understand that American's purchasing these drugs is what fuels the act, right? Did you also know that America actually arms the cartels with the guns that spark the violence?

simple google searches are your friend concerning this matter, turn off the tv and read.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=drug+trafficking+in+mexico
"Americans are understandably focused on the flow of drugs and migrants into the U.S. from Mexico," says Andreas Peter, author of "Border Games: Policing the U.S.-Mexico Divide."
"But too often glossed over in the border security debate is the flow of weapons across the border into Mexico,"

i am sure you could refer to many other acts of crime linking to illegal migration, yet it comes down to the basics of societial issues eg: poverty

i also can say this much
men, women and children in Mexico are being killed by the tens of thousands, because America wants its cocaine

 

[Sparky Shortz]

I'm not scared of the government because I have nothing to hide...the ones that do are and need to go back where they came from!! So yup, I have no problem being stopped and asked for proof of citizenship :nanner:

Wait a minute. People are scared of the government, and yet you approve of a new law that allows the government of Arizona to stop people and ask them for proof of citizenship?

 

[Sparky Shortz]

Not sure why everyone on this board is using "Mexicans" as the target...illegal is illegal pure black and white regardless of where you are from...

And the only reason Arizona is up in the top ten of "Dumbest States" is because the government has its hands in the education system too where they are forming the little minds of the poor children who know nothing about history and will never learn it...

Blaming Mexicans for the problems of a state. How fresh.

I wonder who will make up that lost sales tax revenue?

I guess Arizonans property and sales taxes will be increasing dramatically to hire new cops for their dream police state, fund deportation gulags and to transport these "criminals" back to the homeland

If a white person speaks French or English with a funny accent, I guess the AZ police will be checking to see if they're in the state illegally too?

There's a reason why Arizona routinely comes up in the top ten of "Dumbest States" annually. This bill will be tossed out.

I guess it does make for a nice political ad for the Gov's reelection campaign?

 

[Sparky Shortz]

Only if you are one and most people here are not born and raised in Arizona to be considered an Arizonian...so that means there are very few...we're good :nanner:

Arizonians are arseholes!

 

[Nootch]

Great! Less illegals making money in our country and sending it back to Mexico, effectively life-draining our economy. Less illegal welfare, less ranchers getting shot on their own AZ ranch, less is more in this case, folks :ak47:

 

[Sparky Shortz]

Damn Jane you have a GREAT way of saying exactly what I think...way to go :nanner:

Quite some time back we were considering moving to Australia and one of the requirements is that you have proof that you have $100,000 liquid assets on the way in so you never have to use any of their social services...might be a great thought for the US!!

The problem is people from Mexico think this is just about them. It isn't. This state has a lot of illegals from Central and South America. No one has the right to enter this country illegally and then march and demand rights. You do not have rights when you are not a citizen. The attitudes of the illegals amaze me. I can't march into Canada illegally and demand things. They would deport my ass back to the US.

Most people in this state have no problem with paying more taxes if it means something will be finally done about illegals. The state is being drained by illegals. We already pay for their medical bills, welfare (they do get it) their kids education, etc. I am sorry to break it to you but they are "criminals" As soon as they entered the country illegally they committed a crime.

The bill will not be tossed out because they made it similar to the Feds bill. There is no legal basis to throw it out on. Perhaps the Feds should get off their ass and do their job. :2 cents:

 

[Sparky Shortz]

Thanks...someone that has their wits about them...:nanner:

I'm with ya Sparky. :thumbsup:

 

[Sparky Shortz]

Has no clue...nothing to do with hate...you're right...didn't read the thread...oh well

What did you take the time to read the thread:dunno:

 

[Sparky Shortz]

Told you...doesn't have a clue...duh

I don't see how it did not make any sense I asked you: Did you take the time to read the thread :dunno:

 

[Sparky Shortz]

English major one would guess...made perfect sense to me :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:

Okay that is understandable

 

[Hot Mega]

If you're not an illegal in this country and have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. I still have to show ID when I buy cigarettes or beer and I'm way over the age limit...so...what's the big deal

You produce ID when you buy alcohol, cigs, porn, see certain mainstream movies, etc. because we have laws prohibiting minors from partaking of some goods.

Annnd when a cop suspects your involvement in some crime or infraction they already have the right to inspect your id, citizenship, etc.

The only thing I can see this law being used for is to allow a cop to look at you, suspect that you're an illegal alien and check you out.

Well you may say if you're legal what's the problem? Answer; The constitution requires probable cause for a search (which is what it is when you're asked to produce ID). The vague and ambiguousness of the standard in this law makes me believe it will be overturned..and rightfully so.

We live in a country founded primarily because the unfairness of unreasonable searches (Writs of Assistance) leveled against colonists by GB which were open ended and arbitrary.

That is why the 4th Amendment was create.

 

[Sparky Shortz]

They can get their basic human rights in their own country...and if it doesn't exist...come to America and GET LEGAL!!

Just because someone is not an American citizen does not mean they are not entitled to basic human rights. You can not commit a crime against a person, legal citizen or not, and escape persecution. You can not let a person die in the streets in this country because they are not a citizen or because they can't afford to pay for healthcare. You do not have the right to harass someone just because you don't like them.

What are "illegals" protesting over anyway? What protests are you talking about specifically?

You have closed off your thinking to an alarming degree.


You're joking right? Can you back this up? I find it hard to believe that Arizonans would endorse a tax increase as opposed to the usual: cut education, cut health, cut welfare, cut business taxes, etc.

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Could this be the sign of things to come: