WWE Raw & Smackdown Weekly Thread
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after i posted i checked out WWE.com- Thanks for the detailed match info.
How bad was the end of that show last night??????
the HHH having head/concussion issues was acted out....REAL BAD! and all 3 announcers tried their best to sound sincere but it just sounded like they knew THEY were overdoing it also!
really wasn't a great RAW.
Dull is the only word I can think of to describe WWE right now.
The HHH stuff is so annoying because it's all about him, as always.
The HHH stuff is so annoying because it's all about him, as always.
I'm assuming Paul Heyman drugged Triple H's water. Anyway, it's typical that HHH wouldn't even let someone pin him even in that condition. Bastard had to roll out of the ring.
Let's face it, though. That guy doesn't care about the future of the business. Only his own glory and image. That's Hoganesque narcissism.
You know, I've kept out of this thread for a good few months, because I didn't care for my opinion being dismissed as "bullshit" without any logical reasoning or intelligent argument. But I feel I can't stay silent any longer.
You don't half come across as a bitter smark in nearly every post, especially with regards to Triple H. Why the fuck would it make any sense for McGillicutty to come out of the cold with a new name and pin a guy the stature of Triple H on free TV unannounced and out of nowhere? As it is, they've got somewhere they can go with it. There is a story for people to think "what happened?" and he and Heyman can come out crowing about how badly they beat up Hunter last week that he needed medical attention. They can build to something. Do something decisive at the end of the story, not the beginning.
Mind you, Hunter can't do right for doing wrong. Even if he had lost clean to Hennig, the smarks would shit all over it and say it's too much too soon, "WTF, Triple H just lost to the blandest guy in Nexus out of nowhere!" Short of dying, he wouldn't be able to please you anyway.
The fact that it's him that's working with "Curtis Axel" in Hennig's first storyline in his new character, rather than him just disappearing after losing to Lesnar - mean anything to you? That should tell you he cares enough to be part of the guy's relaunch. Just working with Hunter means more people are paying attention to him than if he cleanly pinned Kofi Kingston or The Miz every week for a month or two.
I won't even go into detail about the other things he's done from his office position to try and help the company, other than to say it was HUNTER that bought in Sin Cara as a hopeful decent opponent for Del Rio, potential replacement for Mysterio and to attract more interest from the Latin American viewers, it was HUNTER that hired Kia "Awesome Kong/Kharma" Stevens to hopefully bolster the womens division, it's HUNTER that was said to be really high on Dean Ambrose, now the leader of The Shield, one of the most lauded acts and high profile "new success" stories they've had for years, and it was HUNTER that was instrumental in getting Bruno Sammartino to acquiesce to induction into the Hall of Fame to add some credibility to it and rebuild a little of that link to wrestling tradition that may have disappeared over the years. OK, so his attempts have been a bit hit and miss, but fuck me, you can see he's trying.
You're talking about a guy that's had a grand total of 5 televised matches since Mania XXVIII and only won one of them, that being the middle match in a three match series with Lesnar in which he allowed his arm to get broken twice and generally let Lesnar look the tougher man, in which he needed a sledgehammer, steps and his buddy interfering for him to level the score, and ultimately in which he looked at the lights decisively in the final match, making Lesnar look the big deal for whatever he has next in his future - title match, marquee match with The Rock, whatever. It's not 2003, Hunter isn't the champion, "holding down" your favourites and beating them in PPV main events every month.
As an aside, Hulk Hogan made the WWF into the giant it was in the 1980s, and you owe every bit of enjoyment you've taken from the company since January 1984 to him, and through him, WCW enjoyed its most profitable run too. Maybe if one or two more talents where as "narcissistic" as him these days, the business would be in better shape. Incidentally, he also knew when it was right to do a job. He volunteered to do the job for Yokozuna on his way out of the WWF as long ago as 1993 - which is the only reason he took the belt at Mania IX to begin with - so that Yoko could be off and rolling in a big way long after The Hulkster had said his goodbyes. And even after he came back, he had no qualms doing the honours for the stars of the day - Rock, Angle, Taker, Hunter, Lesnar - because he knew they were the ones carrying the place then and for the foreseeable future. He's a businessman.
I digress. I guess what I was trying to say was - if I hated watching WWE to the degree of picking holes in it the way that it sounds like you do, Moonchild, I'd give up on it and do something else with the time. Don't worry, I won't be loitering around your thread again now for a while, waiting patiently for another pithy "bullshit" retort, but I just thought your remarks on Hunter/Axel needed a counterpoint.
Well, while I'm here, may as well......
The "PG" complaint is a crutch. The company had an exciting product and made a shitload of money in the 80s and early 90s while still adhering to PG guidelines, and when WCW was pounding the WWF into the ground in 96-98 they were PG as well. The problem isn't the restrictions placed on them, it's an inability to create must-see television and characters we can emotionally invest in. Blood, tits and swearing wouldn't necessarily be the magic answer - it's just the answer people latch onto because they can't have it anymore.
But hey, the company is still massively profitable, so they don't give a fuck if guys like you or I in their early 30s think the TV is creatively rewarding or not. Arguably, nor should they.
You don't half come across as a bitter smark in nearly every post, especially with regards to Triple H. Why the fuck would it make any sense for McGillicutty to come out of the cold with a new name and pin a guy the stature of Triple H on free TV unannounced and out of nowhere? As it is, they've got somewhere they can go with it. There is a story for people to think "what happened?" and he and Heyman can come out crowing about how badly they beat up Hunter last week that he needed medical attention. They can build to something. Do something decisive at the end of the story, not the beginning.
Mind you, Hunter can't do right for doing wrong. Even if he had lost clean to Hennig, the smarks would shit all over it and say it's too much too soon, "WTF, Triple H just lost to the blandest guy in Nexus out of nowhere!" Short of dying, he wouldn't be able to please you anyway.
The fact that it's him that's working with "Curtis Axel" in Hennig's first storyline in his new character, rather than him just disappearing after losing to Lesnar - mean anything to you? That should tell you he cares enough to be part of the guy's relaunch. Just working with Hunter means more people are paying attention to him than if he cleanly pinned Kofi Kingston or The Miz every week for a month or two.
I won't even go into detail about the other things he's done from his office position to try and help the company, other than to say it was HUNTER that bought in Sin Cara as a hopeful decent opponent for Del Rio, potential replacement for Mysterio and to attract more interest from the Latin American viewers, it was HUNTER that hired Kia "Awesome Kong/Kharma" Stevens to hopefully bolster the womens division, it's HUNTER that was said to be really high on Dean Ambrose, now the leader of The Shield, one of the most lauded acts and high profile "new success" stories they've had for years, and it was HUNTER that was instrumental in getting Bruno Sammartino to acquiesce to induction into the Hall of Fame to add some credibility to it and rebuild a little of that link to wrestling tradition that may have disappeared over the years. OK, so his attempts have been a bit hit and miss, but fuck me, you can see he's trying.
You're talking about a guy that's had a grand total of 5 televised matches since Mania XXVIII and only won one of them, that being the middle match in a three match series with Lesnar in which he allowed his arm to get broken twice and generally let Lesnar look the tougher man, in which he needed a sledgehammer, steps and his buddy interfering for him to level the score, and ultimately in which he looked at the lights decisively in the final match, making Lesnar look the big deal for whatever he has next in his future - title match, marquee match with The Rock, whatever. It's not 2003, Hunter isn't the champion, "holding down" your favourites and beating them in PPV main events every month.
As an aside, Hulk Hogan made the WWF into the giant it was in the 1980s, and you owe every bit of enjoyment you've taken from the company since January 1984 to him, and through him, WCW enjoyed its most profitable run too. Maybe if one or two more talents where as "narcissistic" as him these days, the business would be in better shape. Incidentally, he also knew when it was right to do a job. He volunteered to do the job for Yokozuna on his way out of the WWF as long ago as 1993 - which is the only reason he took the belt at Mania IX to begin with - so that Yoko could be off and rolling in a big way long after The Hulkster had said his goodbyes. And even after he came back, he had no qualms doing the honours for the stars of the day - Rock, Angle, Taker, Hunter, Lesnar - because he knew they were the ones carrying the place then and for the foreseeable future. He's a businessman.
I digress. I guess what I was trying to say was - if I hated watching WWE to the degree of picking holes in it the way that it sounds like you do, Moonchild, I'd give up on it and do something else with the time. Don't worry, I won't be loitering around your thread again now for a while, waiting patiently for another pithy "bullshit" retort, but I just thought your remarks on Hunter/Axel needed a counterpoint.
Well, while I'm here, may as well......
WWE is on a path of destruction...the more it keeps going PG, the more people turn away. Let's face it, in the States we don't like the PG brand, or what the hell they are doing with the tag and diva divisions.
:2 cents:
The "PG" complaint is a crutch. The company had an exciting product and made a shitload of money in the 80s and early 90s while still adhering to PG guidelines, and when WCW was pounding the WWF into the ground in 96-98 they were PG as well. The problem isn't the restrictions placed on them, it's an inability to create must-see television and characters we can emotionally invest in. Blood, tits and swearing wouldn't necessarily be the magic answer - it's just the answer people latch onto because they can't have it anymore.
But hey, the company is still massively profitable, so they don't give a fuck if guys like you or I in their early 30s think the TV is creatively rewarding or not. Arguably, nor should they.
It was one of the most bizarre endings to Raw in recent memory, and not in a good way. Hopefully it ends up leading to something good down the line, but much like the Lesnar/HHH storyline I am not going to expect it.
I agree that it's a pretty good rub towards "Curtis Axel" to have his first match against HHH. I also recognize that he was the main reason that Bruno Sammartino is now a hall of famer. I appreciate his efforts in bringing in Sin Cara and Awesome Kong. Though neither of them ever appealed to me in the slightest, I respect the fact that a lot of others are fans of them.
My issue is that despite doing all this for the company, he still allows his ego to get in the way. For two straight years, he has inserted himself into the "hot," culturally relevant storyline and proceeded to run it into the ground. In the summer of 2011, the CM Punk storyline was the best thing we had seen on WWE television in many years. There was absolutely no need for HHH to get involved, but he did anyway, and low and behold the storyline was dead two months later as was the edge and momentum behind Punk's character. Less than a year later, Brock Lesnar had a hot angle going with John Cena and of course before it could progress any further HHH was in it. Now here we are 13 months later, and it feels that an entire year has been wasted.
I'm not a smark. I was a big fan of HHH growing up and consider him to be my all-time favorite wrestler. But enough is enough.
I know he's not holding anyone down, but he's still making the show about him (as far as I can tell).
I agree with you 100% here. WWE has tried to be edgy, having HHH call Lesnar a "bitch" among other things. But it's 2013, not 1999. The audience is completely different. Also, even if they were to switch back to TV-14 there is plenty of crap they couldn't do now that they did back then. You had things like The Undertaker slitting his wrist, The Godfather making weed jokes and coming out with "hos," and of course Val Venis talking about orgasms. We live in a politically correct world now, and on a show that kids watch that just isn't going to fly, regardless of the rating.
I don't get what you're saying about Lesnar/Cena at all, I really don't. Due to Lesnar's limited dates contract, he could only be around for a certain number of matches and a certain number of television shows to create the build for those matches. His run with Cena was that one match and nothing more, designed to rehabilitate Cena and make him look hard-as-nails and "never giving up" again. So that's what they did, over and finished. They then had to spread a storyline out for Lesnar's next big match, which would be the marquee match with Trips at SummerSlam, so they started the slow build for it. It's not that Hunter interjected into the Cena/Lesnar angle before it could progress ; the angle was finished.
As for Punk, most of his intrigue died when he came back after only 8 days, then he proceeded to lose his loudest reactions due to a) relying on confusing worked-shoot promos talking about backstage goings-on or trying to blur the line between storyline and "real life" which the live crowds either didn't understand or didn't care about, and b) vying for the top babyface spot with John Cena. There can be only one, and to a lot of the fans that might have cheered Punk, they wouldn't because he cheated (in their minds) their hero of the title twice. As for working with Hunter, I don't think the brief distraction while Cena took his belt back from Del Rio did him any harm, it's not like Punk had anyone else to work with in the interim, and he still ended up babyface WWE Champion and getting a good 8 months there, until they realized that actually he's a smug unlikable prick and heel is a much better position for him. Punk's work with Hunter in hindsight was better than what might have happened, as the original plan was for him to work PPV matches with Kevin Nash, and I can't imagine they would have been any good. My only real complaints about the final quarter of 2011 are the ease with which Cena beat Del Rio to win the belt back and made Del Rio's finish look like shit, and the fact that Awesome Truth were treated like they were the Beverly Brothers in the run up to Survivors.
Still, it must be a nice change to complain about the show being all about Hunter, rather than all about Cena.
As for Punk, most of his intrigue died when he came back after only 8 days, then he proceeded to lose his loudest reactions due to a) relying on confusing worked-shoot promos talking about backstage goings-on or trying to blur the line between storyline and "real life" which the live crowds either didn't understand or didn't care about, and b) vying for the top babyface spot with John Cena. There can be only one, and to a lot of the fans that might have cheered Punk, they wouldn't because he cheated (in their minds) their hero of the title twice. As for working with Hunter, I don't think the brief distraction while Cena took his belt back from Del Rio did him any harm, it's not like Punk had anyone else to work with in the interim, and he still ended up babyface WWE Champion and getting a good 8 months there, until they realized that actually he's a smug unlikable prick and heel is a much better position for him. Punk's work with Hunter in hindsight was better than what might have happened, as the original plan was for him to work PPV matches with Kevin Nash, and I can't imagine they would have been any good. My only real complaints about the final quarter of 2011 are the ease with which Cena beat Del Rio to win the belt back and made Del Rio's finish look like shit, and the fact that Awesome Truth were treated like they were the Beverly Brothers in the run up to Survivors.
Still, it must be a nice change to complain about the show being all about Hunter, rather than all about Cena.
All fair points, MrStiffy. Maybe I expected too much out of the storylines (especially Cena/Lesnar) and let that cloud my judgment.
Jim Ross Meeting With NFLPA Concerning Relationship With WWE
According to NESN.com, WWE is attempting to form a relationship with the NFL which would funnel NFL players into the WWE developmental system once their careers in football are over. Jim Ross is scheduled to meet with the NFL Players Association, and the following is an excerpt from the article:
“Everybody doesn’t make the 53-man roster,” Ross told Jim Miller and Alex Marvez on SiriusXM NFL Radio. “Some guys are going to be looking for work, and we’ve got some job openings. Maybe we can put the synergies of those two entities together and create something wonderful some day.” Plenty of former football players have found careers in wrestling in the past. Some of them include Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, Ernie Ladd, Bronco Nagurski and Bill Goldberg.
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/272781-jim-ross-meeting-with-nflpa-concerning-relationship-with-wwe
According to NESN.com, WWE is attempting to form a relationship with the NFL which would funnel NFL players into the WWE developmental system once their careers in football are over. Jim Ross is scheduled to meet with the NFL Players Association, and the following is an excerpt from the article:
“Everybody doesn’t make the 53-man roster,” Ross told Jim Miller and Alex Marvez on SiriusXM NFL Radio. “Some guys are going to be looking for work, and we’ve got some job openings. Maybe we can put the synergies of those two entities together and create something wonderful some day.” Plenty of former football players have found careers in wrestling in the past. Some of them include Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson, Ernie Ladd, Bronco Nagurski and Bill Goldberg.
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/272781-jim-ross-meeting-with-nflpa-concerning-relationship-with-wwe
They need to bring Stepanie and Shano back and turn the clock back a few years !
We'd have to get a time machine to do that. There's no going back.
But if you buy the WWE app, maybe you'll get to watch them watch a monitor during a match. :stir:
Don't do the app thing but what they have now is not much and I can probably You Tube it and check out the archives. At least AJ is hot.
oh GOD is AJ hott!! those tight blue shorts she wears in her matches.....when she bends over to get into and out of the ring..!!! :drool2:
Shelton's first notable match on Raw as a singles competitor after a draft that seperated him from Charlie Haas, he actually pinned Triple H as Hunter was distracted by Chris Benoit stalking Flair at ringside. He beat him by count-out and by disqualification in subsequent rematches too.
Well, it was nice to see Stephanie and Vince McMahon back anyway......... now Shano Mac needs to make an appearance.
10 Wrestling Matches That Became Real Fights
http://guyspeed.com/10-wrestling-matches-that-became-real-fights/?utm_source=scribol.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=scribol.com
http://guyspeed.com/10-wrestling-matches-that-became-real-fights/?utm_source=scribol.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=scribol.com
