WWE Raw & Smackdown Weekly Thread

[Mr_Stiffy]

Got to agree with the Cena match a bit. It was actually a great match but watching it, the Eve match and then Orton destroying the 3-Man-Band was like watching a one hour seminar on "How to Bury The Up & Coming Talent".

I thought the Eve match was great for Kaitlyn. Eve ran from her. That makes it look like she could take the title. Given how weak the division is, I expect her to soon.

As for 3MB, they're comedy heels. They're doing the right thing... for now. Just getting matches with the likes of Orton and Sheamus on TV is a step up from where they were 3 months ago. If they stay over, give it a few weeks and they'll catch a win over an International Airstrike or Kofi & partner-of-the-week. Then they're ready for a title shot soon, again, if they stay over. It's a shame for 3MB that there are Rhodes Scholars AND the Prime Time Players ahead of them in the heel team pecking order, and a shame for all three teams that the Outlaws reportedly aren't going to be used as a team on TV. It would have been a real shot in the arm for any one of those teams to get to beat such tag team legends in front of the world.

But Cena/Ziggler.... yeah. Ziggler will be World Heavyweight Champion soon, but if he can't beat John Cena - who was by himself - even with a ref bump and help from Ryblack, then why should we take him seriously?

I hadn't watched the show for a couple of weeks (since Langston's debut) but it was encouraging to see Cena's obsession with scat has made a comeback.... NOT. :/

 

[whalers90]

i know it's a storyline, i know it's fake.... but a lot of what PUNK said last night before the Rock came out was right & truthful.
(it was fresh in my mind last night,not so much this morning) maybe later i can watch it and then post the 3 main things i felt were absolutely true. one was:
the Rock said "punk you said you gave up on the people???? no no no punk the people gave up on you!"..... well rock .... you said you watch every week....AND if you did watch every week...before the Punk "heel turn" the people LOVED THIS FUCKING guy unconditionally! so NO...they didn't give up on him,matter of fact they are the reason he is the champ for 400+ days,because they loved his truthfulness on the mic,so that is #1 wrong fact!

 

[Mr_Stiffy]

Part of being a great heel is in the belief - the heel always believes he is vindicated in his words and his actions. In that respect, Punk has few equals in pro wrestling today. You can believe every word coming out of his mouth as genuine. He was RIGHT to claim he wasn't respected as WWE Champion, when his match at 'Mania played third fiddle to the old guard, and his matches were never on last because Cena and/or Rock was. He was overshadowed at every turn. And when he says he's beaten everyone, in kayfabe/storyline terms, that DOES make him the "best in the world", so once again he's right. And there are plenty of towns in the States where he still gets rapturous applause for being so good. What makes him a great heel is that he can deliver all this solid gold truth as a narcissistic holier-than-thou tosser, and he always struggled to be likeable as a babyface, even when he was delivering such great material. In the strongholds of the old school WWF hardcores like MSG and Chicago, he's still the undisputed man, and in international markets (over here for example) he always gets cheered for being a great wrestler despite being a sanctimonious prick, but on the whole there were lots of places that were turning on him, even in favour of Cena, who the adult fanbase still seem to loathe. One of the main reasons it's hard to like Punk is there is very little distinction between his character and real-life persona - he really is an arrogant smug git.

Wrestling is about storytelling, drama and moments. Even though Punk is my favourite wrestler in WWE, I still look forward to Rock beating him. It will be a great moment to see Rocky as champion one more (last?) time, executing such a great heel in the process, and it will be a monster pop. Conversely when he goes to 'Mania, even though I prefer Rock to Cena in general, I will still be pleased to see Cena beat him on the principle of the matter. Cena works too damn hard with his schedule, the work with the kids and being such a great "company man" for him to play second banana once again to "the actor, Dwayne."

The People's Champ? He's never with the people. Rock, your words are see-through.
You imitate me every time you leave, for seven years we couldn't see you.

You're the WrestleMania host, Rock. That's your role, know it.
You tell these people that you love 'em, I'm here every week to show it.

 

[whalers90]

i know it's a storyline, i know it's fake.... but a lot of what PUNK said last night before the Rock came out was right & truthful.
(it was fresh in my mind last night,not so much this morning) maybe later i can watch it and then post the 3 main things i felt were absolutely true. one was:
the Rock said "punk you said you gave up on the people???? no no no punk the people gave up on you!"..... well rock .... you said you watch every week....AND if you did watch every week...before the Punk "heel turn" the people LOVED THIS FUCKING guy unconditionally! so NO...they didn't give up on him,matter of fact they are the reason he is the champ for 400+ days,because they loved his truthfulness on the mic,so that is #1 wrong fact!

i remembered one while at work.
him saying that an invisible kid like "little jimmy" gets more air time than a workhorse like tyson kidd is correct. and stuff like that pisses me off.
yes i know storylines and what happens makes up most of the WWE tv shows maybe it's time to give a little more wrestling action than just everyone going through the same motions/cookie cutter matches!???
i remember my days of going to Philly for ECW at the bingo hall.... a 1 on 1 match between RVD and jerry lynn was awesome to watch just because of the wrestling abilities of both individuals and how they worked off of each other. no cookie cutter arm drag,clothes line into a back body drop into a pinfall cover. it was 2 guys playing a chess match....IN THE FANS eyes, trying to decide what move to use here or there to get the win.

 

[darkwarrior3007]

i remembered one while at work.
him saying that an invisible kid like "little jimmy" gets more air time than a workhorse like tyson kidd is correct. and stuff like that pisses me off.
yes i know storylines and what happens makes up most of the WWE tv shows maybe it's time to give a little more wrestling action than just everyone going through the same motions/cookie cutter matches!???
i remember my days of going to Philly for ECW at the bingo hall.... a 1 on 1 match between RVD and jerry lynn was awesome to watch just because of the wrestling abilities of both individuals and how they worked off of each other. no cookie cutter arm drag,clothes line into a back body drop into a pinfall cover. it was 2 guys playing a chess match....IN THE FANS eyes, trying to decide what move to use here or there to get the win.

Yeah, I applauded Punk when he said that. I think that it's a travesty that not only does Tyson Kidd not get any real air time, but that the Hart Dynasty were broken up in the first place.

 

[Mr_Stiffy]

^^^
I am quite, quite jealous. I've been to Sumo Hall and Korakuen Hall but never got to Viking Hall while it was used for wrestling.

Agreed the blandness of matches is really depressing, and when you see a move that's different it's usually rubbish. Shellshock is crap, for instance. But then, they've put themselves in a corner with the amount of stuff you can't do any more. Piledrivers (and brainbusters) are outlawed except in special circumstances by trusted veteran performers - Taker, Kane, Shawn, Hunter - and any suplex variants than run the risk of neck damage too - German, Tiger, Dragon - and even the overhead belly to belly. Everyone that arrives in the company gets sent to FCW to systematically be un-trained and re-trained to work "WWE style" so the select few that already fashioned their style somewhere else then lose that individuality. The melting pot rosters of the late 90s and early 21st Century where the WWF and WcW could put on a variety of matches with talents that learned their craft in a variety of places - including ECW - will never be seen again on the big stage.

It's one of the dozens of negative effects that big-time pro wrestling in the West becoming a monopoly has created. Only TNA is a viable alternative with decent production values and not an over-reliance on working too stiff and overly long matches with a dozen head drops for the false finishes, but they struggle from their obsession with being like WWE rather than highlight what makes them different.

 

[whalers90]

^^^
I am quite, quite jealous. I've been to Sumo Hall and Korakuen Hall but never got to Viking Hall while it was used for wrestling.

Agreed the blandness of matches is really depressing, and when you see a move that's different it's usually rubbish. Shellshock is crap, for instance. But then, they've put themselves in a corner with the amount of stuff you can't do any more. Piledrivers (and brainbusters) are outlawed except in special circumstances by trusted veteran performers - Taker, Kane, Shawn, Hunter - and any suplex variants than run the risk of neck damage too - German, Tiger, Dragon - and even the overhead belly to belly. Everyone that arrives in the company gets sent to FCW to systematically be un-trained and re-trained to work "WWE style" so the select few that already fashioned their style somewhere else then lose that individuality. The melting pot rosters of the late 90s and early 21st Century where the WWF and WcW could put on a variety of matches with talents that learned their craft in a variety of places - including ECW - will never be seen again on the big stage.

It's one of the dozens of negative effects that big-time pro wrestling in the West becoming a monopoly has created. Only TNA is a viable alternative with decent production values and not an over-reliance on working too stiff and overly long matches with a dozen head drops for the false finishes, but they struggle from their obsession with being like WWE rather than highlight what makes them different.

you have a great point, i never really considered the amount of moves you can't do anymore. that making the "moves list" bland is a huge factor.
so i went and watched the end of RAW again, to remember my points:
#1 was the people "turning" on Punk even though they embraced him for what? a full year including his title reign up until about 2 1/2 months ago? so the rock is sure wrong there.
#2 was the guys he mentioned who "sell out" for money and will do whatever is asked,no matter how idiotic. d.bryan an lethal submission artist putting on a smile and using catch-phrases, a beast like Brodous (i can't stand him so) shucking and jiving, and the little jimmy thing i mentioned earlier. i know it's a "work" but points very well made.
#3 now i know, i have been a fan long enough to know that you "POP" HUGE for guys, but how easily the crowd chants anything the rock wants them to chant, how easily the crowd chants what cena wants them to chant, they are "mindless sheep"
#4 this one really pains me! during the "cookie puss,cookie puss" chant the camera shows the crowd and there is a guy ....IN A CM PUNK fist t-shirt... chanting "cookie puss" !? the rock is insulting the guy YOU are wearing the shirt of, but you are chanting against him, NICE ALLEGIANCE asshole!!

i also never finished my ECW point- the crowd would give a standing ovation to both wrestlers after a series of simple , yet must be pulled off perfect, moves & counter moves that last about 2 minutes. nothing fancy and basically each guy did the same move to the other but the crowd would give a 15 second standing ovation after they stopped in a stalemate .... because it was about the wrestling.

 

[darkwarrior3007]

Just read that something happened at the Smackdown taping, Destiny!

 

[whalers90]

Just read that something happened at the Smackdown taping, Destiny!

hmm... just saw it.

 

[Mr_Stiffy]

Don't know where you guys stand on spoilers, but I was already planning on trying to watch it with Rock's verbal confrontation with Sandow but this makes it even more worth watching. Although in fairness, anyone trying to stay spoiler free that reads darkwarrior3007's post will now know what happens as soon as that match is announced so they're fucked either way. Personally I think anyone that watches spoiler free then goes on a wrestling forum or reads a wrestling thread in another forum before the show airs is an idiot anyway.

Let's be fair, now that's finished with Sheamus, Big Show's time was up anyway. And they needed a baby to transition the belt to Dolph. Just like last year when they wanted Danny Bry's win to be part of a heel turn, they needed to get the belt off Mizark and onto a face first, who fittingly enough ended up being Show.

 

[darkwarrior3007]

Don't know where you guys stand on spoilers, but I was already planning on trying to watch it with Rock's verbal confrontation with Sandow but this makes it even more worth watching. Although in fairness, anyone trying to stay spoiler free that reads darkwarrior3007's post will now know what happens as soon as that match is announced so they're fucked either way. Personally I think anyone that watches spoiler free then goes on a wrestling forum or reads a wrestling thread in another forum before the show airs is an idiot anyway.

Let's be fair, now that's finished with Sheamus, Big Show's time was up anyway. And they needed a baby to transition the belt to Dolph. Just like last year when they wanted Danny Bry's win to be part of a heel turn, they needed to get the belt off Mizark and onto a face first, who fittingly enough ended up being Show.

Not much of a spoiler when WWE.com posted it on their front page. No different then when they posted Edge cashing in the Money in the Bank against the Undertaker on Smackdown before it aired.

 

[Mr_Stiffy]

As I said, people trying to avoid spoilers that then go on the internet anywhere pro wrestling is discussed is an idiot. It wasn't a pop, mate.

Just noticed where you're from. Anywhere near Titan Tower, as it were?

 

[darkwarrior3007]

As I said, people trying to avoid spoilers that then go on the internet anywhere pro wrestling is discussed is an idiot. It wasn't a pop, mate.

Just noticed where you're from. Anywhere near Titan Tower, as it were?

I didn't take it that way.

I live 3 very short exits away, about a mile or so. I pass by Titan Towers everyday.

 

[Agares]

Who do you think is going to win the Rumble???

My options are:
Randy Orton and then he would choose the WHC
Cena and then going for the WWE championship losing at Elimination Chamber and winning it at WM.

I don't like thse ones very much...I don't think they want to win the Rumble people like Lesnar, Rock cuz they aren't at full time plus CM Punk has hold the tittle a lot. It would be amazing if Dolph Ziggler win the Rumble, cashing his MITB contract at the Rumble and then winning the WWE championship at WM

 

[darkwarrior3007]

Who do you think is going to win the Rumble???

My options are:
Randy Orton and then he would choose the WHC
Cena and then going for the WWE championship losing at Elimination Chamber and winning it at WM.

I don't like thse ones very much...I don't think they want to win the Rumble people like Lesnar, Rock cuz they aren't at full time plus CM Punk has hold the tittle a lot. It would be amazing if Dolph Ziggler win the Rumble, cashing his MITB contract at the Rumble and then winning the WWE championship at WM

I think John Cena is gonna win the Royal Rumble. If Dolph Ziggler were to win the Rumble, he wouldn't have to cash in his MITB, he'd be guaranteed a shot at 'Mania. He still has about 5 months to cash in the MITB.

 

[Moonchild22]

I caught most of Raw on Monday, due to the debacle of a game between Notre Dame and Alabama that became unwatchable very quickly.
Anyway, I actually thought the opening match between John Cena and Dolph Ziggler was a good one.

I was quite impressed with the Diva match. Not only did it allow me time to pee, but to shake thoroughly as well.

I've had quite enough of the Team Hell No angle. Kane and Bryan need to split. Really tired of the "Yes!...No!" crap.
(Did I hear Cole correctly when eluding to Kane getting in the upcoming Hall of Fame? I hope so. He deserves it.)

Punk vs Ryback TLC....on Raw? Why? Anyway, it seems the "Goldberg" chants are getting louder. Funny. Though, I wonder who gets annoyed more by it: Ryback or Goldberg.

The other matches and segments were not worth even a sarcastic mention.

The confrontation between Rock and Punk was only halfway watchable. Punk being that half. He was good and serious (dug the death stare), while the Rock continued with his lame third grade humor and haggard stareoffs. I used to be a fan of his but now I just wish he'd stay away, and take his "cookie puss" and shove it straight up his...you know.
Punk did a good job of getting Tampa to hate him. Let's face it. The Gobbledy Gooker could've come out to the same ovation the Rock got, thanks to Punk.

By the way, about Rock's upcoming movies. Of course he's not going to promote his movies on WWE tv. That'll be Cole's job. You'd be a damn fool if you think he's not using the airtime to get his face and name back out there. That's showbusiness.

 

[whalers90]

I caught most of Raw on Monday, due to the debacle of a game between Notre Dame and Alabama that became unwatchable very quickly.
Anyway, I actually thought the opening match between John Cena and Dolph Ziggler was a good one.

I was quite impressed with the Diva match. Not only did it allow me time to pee, but to shake thoroughly as well.

I've had quite enough of the Team Hell No angle. Kane and Bryan need to split. Really tired of the "Yes!...No!" crap.
(Did I hear Cole correctly when eluding to Kane getting in the upcoming Hall of Fame? I hope so. He deserves it.)

Punk vs Ryback TLC....on Raw? Why? Anyway, it seems the "Goldberg" chants are getting louder. Funny. Though, I wonder who gets annoyed more by it: Ryback or Goldberg.

The other matches and segments were not worth even a sarcastic mention.

The confrontation between Rock and Punk was only halfway watchable. Punk being that half. He was good and serious (dug the death stare), while the Rock continued with his lame third grade humor and haggard stareoffs. I used to be a fan of his but now I just wish he'd stay away, and take his "cookie puss" and shove it straight up his...you know.
Punk did a good job of getting Tampa to hate him. Let's face it. The Gobbledy Gooker could've come out to the same ovation the Rock got, thanks to Punk.

By the way, about Rock's upcoming movies. Of course he's not going to promote his movies on WWE tv. That'll be Cole's job. You'd be a damn fool if you think he's not using the airtime to get his face and name back out there. That's showbusiness.

that is what i said a few posts back about him not staying and someone said he is staying from now until WM. that is the problem, you invest all this time in promoting guys on the roster now ...then just give a "former" superstar a title shot just out of the blue? how about he works for his title shot? Cena had his chances & failed.....RYback had his chances & failed (sorta slowed by a bad ref & the Shield) but i understand why- don't have ryback lose clean so you can still keep his "momentum" or "gigantic hypeness" going at a later date instead of having him lose 5 months into his career. so after Cena & Ryback who is the next in line that has paid his dues week in & week out? i just checked WWE.com and i thought they had a ranking system on there? i think it would be Sheamus.
BTW- i saw the profile for christian. He is still with the company? where the fuck is he?

 

[Mr_Stiffy]

(Did I hear Cole correctly when eluding to Kane getting in the upcoming Hall of Fame? I hope so. He deserves it.)

IIRC he mentioned him as a future Hall of Famer, but it was not alluding to this year's. They never put anybody in before their active career is over. Apart from Flair, by a day. On longevity of character alone, Kane would deserve to go in. He's certainly more deserving than some of the men already in it. Koko B Ware anyone?

Punk vs Ryback TLC....on Raw? Why?

Ryback was awarded a title shot prior to the last PPV, then Punk got injured. They had no choice but to present their match on TV to get it out of the way before Rock's scheduled challenge at the Rumble.

Anyway, it seems the "Goldberg" chants are getting louder. Funny. Though, I wonder who gets annoyed more by it: Ryback or Goldberg.

I doubt Goldberg gives a shit what happens in pro wrestling these days, whether his name gets brought up or not.

that is the problem, you invest all this time in promoting guys on the roster now ...then just give a "former" superstar a title shot just out of the blue? how about he works for his title shot?

Why should he? The Rumble will make the company a shitload of money for him winning the title, 'Mania will break records for him defending it against Cena. That's enough "working for it." Whether it makes sense from a kayfabe "sporting rankings" point of view doesn't matter. The business never changes, it's about finding matches the people want to see, then making them pay to see it. I'm much more excited seeing Punk fight The Rock than anybody that's been consistently performing on the full time roster for the last twelve months, and would have paid my own money to see it, where I not going round a friend's house. Either way, it's hardly out of the blue since they announced Rock's shot at the Rumble all the way back at Raw 1000 in July, and if we do want to play kayfabe "sporting rankings" then I'd say the fact that he cleanly pinned a 12-time World Champion and the biggest name in the company at the main event of WrestleMania 28 more than qualifies Rock for a title shot, even if he's going to have taken nine months to claim it by the time the Rumble rolls around.

BTW- i saw the profile for christian. He is still with the company? where the fuck is he?

Still recovering from a shoulder injury.

 

[whalers90]

mrSStiffy your reply to me made sense. i guess i just don't want punk to lose the title cause then he falls back into obscurity for a while.

 

[Mr_Stiffy]

mrSStiffy your reply to me made sense. i guess i just don't want punk to lose the title cause then he falls back into obscurity for a while.

I know dude, although there are rumours circulating that he will have something lined up even bigger than the belt itself afterwards.

Here is what I imagine the 'Mania card will look like, a combination of rumours and my own guess work.

The Rock VS John Cena
Triple H VS Brock Lesnar
The Undertaker VS CM Punk
Sheamus VS Randy Orton
Ryback VS Big Show
Dolph Ziggler VS Alberto Del Rio
Rey Mysterio VS Sin Cara
MITB - Wade Barrett VS The Miz VS Kofi Kingston VS Daniel Bryan VS Kane VS Cody Rhodes VS Damien Sandow VS Christian
some Divas nonsense

I toyed with Barrett VS Miz as I didn't have an opponent for either and some contrived six man with a face team vs The Shield but then I realized I was loading the card with too many singles matches and didn't have opponents for Rhodes Scholars, so a Money In The Bank match might make sense. Won by Wade.

I also imagined Mark Henry being fit and coming back for revenge on Show, but I hear Show being picked up by Ryback is a Mania moment they want. I also thought Jericho VS Ziggler at one point but Ziggler will be in the title picture and I don't see them putting Jericho in there, even if he comes back in time.