Who's The Best Baseball Player of All Time?
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Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Glad to see you include him, Maildude. Here's his webpage at the HOF website:
http://baseballhall.org/hof/gibson-josh
Satchel Paige, Oscar Charleston, James "Cool Papa" Bell and Buck O'Neill should be mentioned as well.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Maybe not the greatest but much overlooked. Dennis Eckersley. 197 wins 390 saves. 12 years as a starter, 12 years as a reliever. I want him in my bull pen.
And as far as Gehrig goes, he batted behind Ruth clearing off the basses. Still putting up powerful RBI numbers.
And as far as Gehrig goes, he batted behind Ruth clearing off the basses. Still putting up powerful RBI numbers.
Teddy Ballgame!
StanScratch
My Penis Is Dancing!
Wins Above Replacement seems to be a growing favorite when comparing dominate players of one era from another: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/WAR_career.shtml
However, there are some factors which are not included...and ones I cannot ignore.
I've long thought that the best ball player before the 1950s never played Major League Baseball. Josh Gibson is a very good possibility. And though the likes of Cobb and Ruth were great, they did not play against "the entire field". They only played against white players. That knocks all of them (including Gibson, since he mainly played only against black players) out of the running. Unfortunately, this also knocks out a couple of dominate players in Ted Williams and Stan Musial. Granted, they played a lot of years after the color barrier was finally broken...but many of their prime years were before blacks were finally allowed on the field. With a lot of regret, they go out.
The likes of A-Rod, Bonds and Clemens rate rather high...but let us face it, their records are quite tainted. Granted, if we look at the records of all three even before their suspected steroid periods, they were quite dominate...but there are too many question marks. Off they go.
That still leaves some rather good players. Mays. Aaron, Mantle. Rickey Henderson is surprisingly high. Schmidt. Frank Robinson. Tom Seaver is the highest ranking pitcher of those who made my cuts. Joe Morgan. Eddie Matthews. Greg Maddox. Niekro, Bob Gibson and Gaylor Perry round out our pitching staff (Niekro and Perry and surprising picks, until we realize that they won a lot with some really bad teams. BTW, if we skip down two pitching spots - past Randy Johnson and Spahn, Blyleven would have made the list. And it took so long for him to make the Hall why?). The highest ranked shortstop would be Cal Ripken Jr. Johnny Bench is our highest ranked catcher.
For the curious, the top active players in order are A-Rod, Pujols, Thome, Jeter and I-Rod.
As a gut reaction, I would have chosen Ken Griffey Jr., as well. He is ranked a lot lower than I would have expected, 60th all time, but still as low as 30th after I make my cuts. The injuries while he played with Cincinnati took their toll. New Hall of Famer Barry Larkin ranks 90th.
However, there are some factors which are not included...and ones I cannot ignore.
I've long thought that the best ball player before the 1950s never played Major League Baseball. Josh Gibson is a very good possibility. And though the likes of Cobb and Ruth were great, they did not play against "the entire field". They only played against white players. That knocks all of them (including Gibson, since he mainly played only against black players) out of the running. Unfortunately, this also knocks out a couple of dominate players in Ted Williams and Stan Musial. Granted, they played a lot of years after the color barrier was finally broken...but many of their prime years were before blacks were finally allowed on the field. With a lot of regret, they go out.
The likes of A-Rod, Bonds and Clemens rate rather high...but let us face it, their records are quite tainted. Granted, if we look at the records of all three even before their suspected steroid periods, they were quite dominate...but there are too many question marks. Off they go.
That still leaves some rather good players. Mays. Aaron, Mantle. Rickey Henderson is surprisingly high. Schmidt. Frank Robinson. Tom Seaver is the highest ranking pitcher of those who made my cuts. Joe Morgan. Eddie Matthews. Greg Maddox. Niekro, Bob Gibson and Gaylor Perry round out our pitching staff (Niekro and Perry and surprising picks, until we realize that they won a lot with some really bad teams. BTW, if we skip down two pitching spots - past Randy Johnson and Spahn, Blyleven would have made the list. And it took so long for him to make the Hall why?). The highest ranked shortstop would be Cal Ripken Jr. Johnny Bench is our highest ranked catcher.
For the curious, the top active players in order are A-Rod, Pujols, Thome, Jeter and I-Rod.
As a gut reaction, I would have chosen Ken Griffey Jr., as well. He is ranked a lot lower than I would have expected, 60th all time, but still as low as 30th after I make my cuts. The injuries while he played with Cincinnati took their toll. New Hall of Famer Barry Larkin ranks 90th.
Good post, and a really interesting point...never really thought about that. Hmm. So, would you draw the line in baseball history then as when the color barrier was broken, that that action began the new, modern era? Just curious.
I'm going with Willie Mays. But in the near future Albert Pujols is gonna be in the discussion.
Completely agree with Pujols. The guy is amazing...now let's see if he keeps it going in CA...we'll see.
StanScratch
My Penis Is Dancing!
I wish that were an easy question to answer.
The color barrier was broken in 1947 - but, of course, it was not totally broken. The Red Sox waited until 1959 before their first black player in Pumpsie Green. My arbitrary time is "the early 1950s", but it is an honestly fuzzy line that bounces around the time when Mays, Aaron, Banks, Clemente and Frank Robinson were starting.
Of course, with Clemente, there shows a whole other problem. Before Jackie Robinson came along, Latinos were allowed to play - but they were light skinned and very rare. Dolf Luque was the most famous before Clemente came along - a very good pitcher with the Reds, but not a household name. But once Clemente broke that barrier, Latinos became more common: Luis Aparicio, Juan Marichal, Luis Tiant, Tony Perez. So do we push that fuzzy barrier back to the late 1950s to accommodate Latinos?
But wait. There is more. Masanori Murakami Was a rather good pitcher with the Giants during the mid 1960s. He also happened to be the first Asian player to play in the majors...but it took two more decades before another Asian (Hideo Nomo) came upon the scene. Even then, every Asian player in the majors was a pitcher, until Ichio came upon the scene in 2001. So, do we push that very fuzzy barrier back even further to 2000?
Again, not really an easy question to answer, so I set my arbitrary date at the early 1950s, simply because of convenience.
I loved his work I saw in person during game 2 of the 1990 World Series!
sp-sandy koufax
sp-nolan ryan
sp-walter johnson
sp-to seaver
sp-greg maddux
rp-dennis eckersley
c-johnny bench
1b-lou ghehrig
2b-jackie robinson
ss-cal ripken jr.
3b-mike schmidt
of-roberto clemente
of-hank arron
of-babe ruth.
sp-nolan ryan
sp-walter johnson
sp-to seaver
sp-greg maddux
rp-dennis eckersley
c-johnny bench
1b-lou ghehrig
2b-jackie robinson
ss-cal ripken jr.
3b-mike schmidt
of-roberto clemente
of-hank arron
of-babe ruth.
Jagger69
Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
Fixed. Not criticizing, just expressing my opinion. Your team was great....mine's better from my perspective. Doesn't mean either one of us is right....or wrong.
I also understand Stan's assertion that nobody before integration can be truly judged, but it wasn't the players' fault that things were the way they were back then and great is great no matter what in my book. Does anyone really think Babe Ruth would not have been able to hit against black pitchers? Conversely, would Josh Gibson not have been able to hit against white pitchers? We'll never know for sure by I'm making a strong guess that they would have done quite well indeed overall.
So subjective....and a great topic for debate. I love baseball.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Baseball is such a great place to agree yet disagree. Only a few have mentioned Hank Aaron. His 755 home runs total was broken (steroids). A-Rod could catch him with another 4 RBI 100 seasons. Not likely. 300 more extra base hits. No way. Hard to see those last 2 records of Aaron broken broken before I die. Those playing now are way far behind Aaron's pace.
Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire 
Just kidding but Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth & Willy Mays were Top 3 - but personal favorites were Ken Griffey Jr. Frank Thomas, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens
Just kidding but Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth & Willy Mays were Top 3 - but personal favorites were Ken Griffey Jr. Frank Thomas, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens
