bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
And if you want to go to records that will never be broken look up Richard Petty.
Who's The Best Baseball Player of All Time?
- Thread starter Galactic
- Start date
I guess what I should have said about Thomas to be more clear on my opinion is that I don't think that he's the greatest player,but I do think that in this day of steroid use/abuse,his accolades get overlooked and he should get recognized more as one of the greatest hitters of all time.
As for Cy Young,you can only go by how well a player plays against his contemporaries.
As for conditioning,your argument doesn't make sense to me.If players are so much better now,how come they don't play longer than players back then?I've always wondered this.They are supposed to be so much better conditioned,yet if a guy pitches two complete games in a row,or starts on three days rest,then it's all over Sports Center about how great he is,but back then,this was a regular occurrence.Most players today are overpayed pussies,while guys back then pitched like that because they had to.
I think that Baseball,unlike the other major sports,is the only game that if you could take players from any era and have them face each other,the drop off from players of the past to players today wouldn't be that bad.
DiMaggio vs Verlander,Pujols vs Koufax,Mantle vs Ryan,I don't think that the old guys would do as bad as most people seem to think.
And just to clarify,I only mentioned Cy Young because he hold the most unattainable record in sports.As for complete dominance of a player in his respected era,no one even comes close to Babe Ruth.
But Nascar isn't a sport.
Advanced statistics, known as sabermetics, is something baseball analysis has down, accurate, and proven, (according to what makes teams score and win more than their opponents) and those say that the best players are Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Barry Bonds in the top three in one order or another and everybody else is behind them. And yes they have been pretty accurately adjusted by era for a long time now by the people that do them. Everything else is either wishful thinking on other people's part or focusing too much on something that didn't maximize winning under the rules.
On an analytical level I also can't hold something against Bonds that wasn't technically against the rules, just like I don't hold other things that weren't against the rules against other players.
On an analytical level I also can't hold something against Bonds that wasn't technically against the rules, just like I don't hold other things that weren't against the rules against other players.
John_8581
FreeOnes Lifetime Member
Hitters: Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, Yogi Berra, Ralph Kiner, Mickey Mante, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and Roberto Clemente.
Do we place Pete Rose and Joe Jackson on this list? .... well see below. Probably not.
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Pitchers, Let's see...
Tom Seaver. Ten seasons in a row of over 200 hundred strikeouts.
Steve Carlton. In 1972, he went 27-10. The rest of the Phillies staff went 32-87. Yes, that season Carlton had close to half their wins.
Nolan Ryan. Seven career no hitters. Twelve career one hitters, eight of them lost in the seventh or eight innning (otherwise they'd be no hitters.) Eighteen two hitters.
Sandy Koufax. Four career no hitters. Attained the Cy Young Award twice when there was only one trophy awarded in both leagues.
Remaining pitchers, Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Warren Spahn, Jim Palmer, Jim Hunter, Ron Guidry, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddox.
==========================
As for the cheaters, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, Manny Ramirez, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire... NO!!
Do we place Pete Rose and Joe Jackson on this list? .... well see below. Probably not.
==========================
Pitchers, Let's see...
Tom Seaver. Ten seasons in a row of over 200 hundred strikeouts.
Steve Carlton. In 1972, he went 27-10. The rest of the Phillies staff went 32-87. Yes, that season Carlton had close to half their wins.
Nolan Ryan. Seven career no hitters. Twelve career one hitters, eight of them lost in the seventh or eight innning (otherwise they'd be no hitters.) Eighteen two hitters.
Sandy Koufax. Four career no hitters. Attained the Cy Young Award twice when there was only one trophy awarded in both leagues.
Remaining pitchers, Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale, Warren Spahn, Jim Palmer, Jim Hunter, Ron Guidry, Randy Johnson and Greg Maddox.
==========================
As for the cheaters, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, Manny Ramirez, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark McGwire... NO!!
Sam Fisher
Banned
I think it was mentioned in Ken Burn's "Baseball" that during the Dead Ball Era, they used maybe seven balls during a game (my count may be way off), and where as today, they use several dozen during a game. So in the early days of baseball, the game very much favored the pitcher.
There are too many variables to honestly say who is and who was the best player(s) of ALL time. I believe it would require a "Best Player during each Era".
There are too many variables to honestly say who is and who was the best player(s) of ALL time. I believe it would require a "Best Player during each Era".
John_8581
FreeOnes Lifetime Member
Let me add Juan Marichal to the this list here as well.
John_8581
FreeOnes Lifetime Member
If you are going to bring in dead ball players (before 1920): certainly Christy Matthewson, Pud Gavin, Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Jack Chesbro, Eddie Plank, Rube Waddell, Red Faber, Cap Anson, Willie Keeler, Nap LaJoie, and Tris Speaker.
Baseball experts, especially HOF Ray Shalk, said that if Red Faber had played in the 1919 World Series. He was injured. Then the BlackSox would not have thrown the World Series.
If and when MLB lifts the bans, if they ever do... then two of those inelligible players on the 1919 WhiteSox team deserve recognition in the Hall of Fame, Eddie Ciccotte, and Buck Weaver besides Joe Jackson.
Sam Fisher
Banned
This on-going discussion about who is/was the best baseball player of all time is what makes Baseball the greatest game ever. Think about all of the many memories you have about the game, and how you can remember certain plays and talk about them with friends, co-workers, family, etc. There are so many individual player "moments" that can be relived and retold over and over. Willy Mays' spectacular catch, Joe DiMaggio's hit streak, Don Larson's perfect game, David Freese' winning home run in Game 6 of the 2011 World Series, etc, etc.
Try that with football, basketball, or hockey. It can't be done!
And the reference made in an earlier post about Cy Young's record. I agree. Of all the records in the history of baseball, his will NEVER, EVER, be broken. In fact, the way the game has evolved, many pitching records from years past will never be broken. Innings Pitched, Complete Games Pitched, especially.
Try that with football, basketball, or hockey. It can't be done!
And the reference made in an earlier post about Cy Young's record. I agree. Of all the records in the history of baseball, his will NEVER, EVER, be broken. In fact, the way the game has evolved, many pitching records from years past will never be broken. Innings Pitched, Complete Games Pitched, especially.
John_8581
FreeOnes Lifetime Member
:2offtopic
Football. When Johnny Unitas retired after the 1973 season, all the NFL passing records were his. Fran Tarkenton, Joe Montana, Dan Marino and Dan Fouts have all surpassed Unitas' marks...
Except one NFL record that Unitas still has. John Unitas throwing a touchdown pass in 49 consecutive games. It's similar to Joe DiMaggio 56 game unsurmountable hit streak.
Basketball. We just celebrated the fity year anniversary of this accomplishment. Wilt Chamberlain scores a hundred points in a basketball game.
Kobe Bryant and even Michael Jordan have come close. Kobe has come the closest, scoring 81. Michael scored 68.
I think this is what kind of makes the question a little hard to answer because it doesn't include pitchers.With all of the great hitters in the history of the game,the undeniable fact remains that a hitter will fail more times than a pitcher will.Even the best hitters for average are all still under .500.Even if you just count OBP as a success,even Ted Williams who is number 1 all time with a .482,that's still means that he didn't get on base more than he did,so advantage goes to the pitcher.
Everyone looks at stats for hitting but seems like they don't take into account that pitchers succeed more than hitters do.
Basketball. We just celebrated the fity year anniversary of this accomplishment. Wilt Chamberlain scores a hundred points in a basketball game.
Kobe Bryant and even Michael Jordan have come close. Kobe has come the closest, scoring 81. Michael scored 68.
Second most unattainable record in sports.
Think about it,Kobe scored 81 fucking points,and STILL was 19 points short!
Sam Fisher
Banned
It's an old adage but, hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. Bar none!
If over your career you finish with a .300 batting average, you are more than likely to make it into the Hall of Fame. Yet, you only succeeded three times for every ten times you batted. Imagine if a surgeon succeeded three times for every ten operations. He would lose his license to practice.
Simply put, Baseball is the quintessential game. Imagine if the base paths would have been laid out one foot longer. There would be even less runners on base. Or, if the base paths were shortened by one foot. There would be more runners on base which means higher batting averages.
Another thing that makes baseball so unique is, even though the distances between pitcher and home plate is the same for all parks, as well as base paths.... each ball park has their own dimensions as for distances to the fences. Where as Football, Hockey, Basketball, Tennis, Billiards, Horseshoes, etc., all have set dimensions regardless where their game is played. Baseball is unique!
I started playing organized baseball when I was seven years old. There was no such thing as T-Ball back then. I played all the way up to my senior year of high school. I ate, drank, walked, thought, and dreamed of playing baseball in the major leagues. I had a try-out with the Cincinnati Reds and found how how good I wasn't.
Thankfully though, I was born and raised in one of baseball's best cities -- St. Louis. And, I was able to grow up in a city that was loaded with history and success. I dare say, they don't get any better than St. Louis Cardinals fans.
If over your career you finish with a .300 batting average, you are more than likely to make it into the Hall of Fame. Yet, you only succeeded three times for every ten times you batted. Imagine if a surgeon succeeded three times for every ten operations. He would lose his license to practice.
Simply put, Baseball is the quintessential game. Imagine if the base paths would have been laid out one foot longer. There would be even less runners on base. Or, if the base paths were shortened by one foot. There would be more runners on base which means higher batting averages.
Another thing that makes baseball so unique is, even though the distances between pitcher and home plate is the same for all parks, as well as base paths.... each ball park has their own dimensions as for distances to the fences. Where as Football, Hockey, Basketball, Tennis, Billiards, Horseshoes, etc., all have set dimensions regardless where their game is played. Baseball is unique!
I started playing organized baseball when I was seven years old. There was no such thing as T-Ball back then. I played all the way up to my senior year of high school. I ate, drank, walked, thought, and dreamed of playing baseball in the major leagues. I had a try-out with the Cincinnati Reds and found how how good I wasn't.
Thankfully though, I was born and raised in one of baseball's best cities -- St. Louis. And, I was able to grow up in a city that was loaded with history and success. I dare say, they don't get any better than St. Louis Cardinals fans.
You've been watching the Ken Burns documentary recently, huh?It's an old adage but, hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. Bar none!
If over your career you finish with a .300 batting average, you are more than likely to make it into the Hall of Fame. Yet, you only succeeded three times for every ten times you batted. Imagine if a surgeon succeeded three times for every ten operations. He would lose his license to practice.
Simply put, Baseball is the quintessential game. Imagine if the base paths would have been laid out one foot longer. There would be even less runners on base. Or, if the base paths were shortened by one foot. There would be more runners on base which means higher batting averages.
Another thing that makes baseball so unique is, even though the distances between pitcher and home plate is the same for all parks, as well as base paths.... each ball park has their own dimensions as for distances to the fences. Where as Football, Hockey, Basketball, Tennis, Billiards, Horseshoes, etc., all have set dimensions regardless where their game is played. Baseball is unique!
I started playing organized baseball when I was seven years old. There was no such thing as T-Ball back then. I played all the way up to my senior year of high school. I ate, drank, walked, thought, and dreamed of playing baseball in the major leagues. I had a try-out with the Cincinnati Reds and found how how good I wasn't.
Thankfully though, I was born and raised in one of baseball's best cities -- St. Louis. And, I was able to grow up in a city that was loaded with history and success. I dare say, they don't get any better than St. Louis Cardinals fans.
Good post, and so true. I love the game more than any other sport. I do disagree with you on one thing though...as far as fans, there are none more dedicated than Rockies fans. GO ROCKS!
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Zell, I can't say that you are wrong. You are right on all of your points. Just the same as you agree on many of my points. This is the beauty of baseball. Any fan of any club or era can boast and not be denied. The sport is so rich with history. Fans appreciate other fans.
I am a Mets fan. I wear my Mets jacket when I go to Philly Park for horse racing and casino stuff. I get my shit but when I tell them that they are better than Yankee fans it's all gets good. We trade our shit and watch the game together.
Just look at the eras. Dead ball, the war years, expansion, steroid years. We grew up on this sport and learned the history that preceded our experiences. God blessed this game and kept it alive for all of us. Too bad the Negro Leagues stats were not as compiled as the Major League.
In a book written by Sachal Paige, he said that Jackie Robinson was not the most talented of his time. But he had the best temperament to break into the Major League. Sachal admitted that he was old and Josh Gibson might have only delivered a couple of seasons. Being that as it may, we can still read about the Negro League barnstorming teams that played white players and get a grip on baseball history.
I am a Mets fan. I wear my Mets jacket when I go to Philly Park for horse racing and casino stuff. I get my shit but when I tell them that they are better than Yankee fans it's all gets good. We trade our shit and watch the game together.
Just look at the eras. Dead ball, the war years, expansion, steroid years. We grew up on this sport and learned the history that preceded our experiences. God blessed this game and kept it alive for all of us. Too bad the Negro Leagues stats were not as compiled as the Major League.
In a book written by Sachal Paige, he said that Jackie Robinson was not the most talented of his time. But he had the best temperament to break into the Major League. Sachal admitted that he was old and Josh Gibson might have only delivered a couple of seasons. Being that as it may, we can still read about the Negro League barnstorming teams that played white players and get a grip on baseball history.
BAYAMONXXX
Land Of The Snakes
Pete Rose as a MLB Player he did not have the raw talent as other players, however his knowledge study preparation and a desire to succeed at every moment of each game he played made teams and fans of the opposite side hate him. He is the all time hits leader. The gambling and lack of honesty is a moral flaw but on the playing field no athlete other than Michael Jordan could will and out hustle the opposition. He should be in Cooperstown.
Virgil Rapacious
Banned
Ted Williams
Little Red Wagon Repairman
MFOMBSoPGA
Babe Ruth
