When did you decide to be heterosexual?

[ChefChiTown]

Not more ridiculous than ignoring the fact that the sexuality of an animal can be modified that easily simply by altering a gene. It's even possible to drug them to turn it on and off as you please. We may be more advanced versions, but we share the same basic architecture. The human DNA is for the most part unexplored, and that doesn't even take the myriad of other potential biological factors into account, yet you seem to discount this as a significant factor, or even a factor at all. I want to know exactly what you base this conclusion on.

How are you comparing the genetics of a fruit fly to the genetics of a human being? How is the alteration of a fruit flies genetics a factor in human sexuality?

We can cross breed plants and form new hybrids, so is that a factor in human sexuality too? I mean, we altered their genetics, so it must be.

 

[Imagine]

How are you comparing the genetics of a fruit fly to the genetics of a human being? How is the alteration of a fruit flies genetics a factor in human sexuality?

We can cross breed plants and form new hybrids, so is that a factor in human sexuality too? I mean, we altered their genetics, so it must be.

On the first question; it's rather easy. It's a bit less complex, but it is built based on the exact same architecture. DNA is DNA.
On the second question; it's not. But if fruit fly genetics is a factor, and apparently a dominating one, in fruit fly sexuality, there is reason to believe that human genetics is a factor in human sexuality, or for any animal that reproduces by mating for that matter. The crossroad between sexual and asexual reproduction took place prior to the division of fruit fly and humans, so it would not surprise me if we share a common mechanism.

Nice straw man by the way. Couldn't help but notice that you dodged the question.

 

[ChefChiTown]

On the first question; it's rather easy. It's a bit less complex, but it is built based on the exact same architecture. DNA is DNA.
On the second question; it's not. But if fruit fly genetics is a factor, and apparently a dominating one, in fruit fly sexuality, there is reason to believe that human genetics is a factor in human sexuality, or for any animal that reproduces by mating for that matter. The crossroad between sexual and asexual reproduction took place prior to the division of fruit fly and humans, so it would not surprise me if we share a common mechanism.

Nice straw man by the way. Couldn't help but notice that you dodged the question.

What question did I dodge?

:dunno:

 

[Imagine]

On what are you basing your apparent elimination of biology as a factor in homosexuality?

 

[ChefChiTown]

On what are you basing your apparent elimination of biology as a factor in homosexuality?

Because you can't deny your genetics, yet, gay people don't always date members of the same sex for their whole life.

I have known many gay people (one of which being my ex-girlfriend that I dated for 3 years) who have dated members of the opposite sex before they turned to members of the same sex. If their genetics had everything to do with their sexuality, situations like that would never ever happen, as their genetics would force them to be attracted to members of the same sex and nothing else. But, it doesn't work out that way.

 

[Imagine]

Because you can't deny your genetics, yet, gay people don't always date members of the same sex for their whole life.

I have known many gay people (one of which being my ex-girlfriend that I dated for 3 years) who have dated members of the opposite sex before they turned to members of the same sex. If their genetics had everything to do with their sexuality, situations like that would never ever happen, as their genetics would force them to be attracted to members of the same sex and nothing else.

As I've mentioned, research conducted on primates (with whom we share 99%+ of our genetics, I might add) indicate that bisexuality is actually the norm, or at least the optimal trait. There's little to indicate that there's a true/false boolean value in our genetics.
It also fails to take into account the psychological factors. Perhaps they feel something isn't quite right but they don't know what it is and misinterpret or dismiss it? Just doing what they are expected to by society. Not to mention that denial is an incredibly powerful coping mechanism, though not very healthy. I won't bother repeating the part about action and impulse again.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe that there is technically no such thing as being heterosexual or homosexual for social animals, merely various shades of bisexuality. Some lean towards one end of the spectrum or the other, others are somewhere in the middle and can go either way, depending on what they are taught by community, what they had for lunch, and so on. It is fairly well established that sex reduces overall aggression in a community, which of course is a positive factor. But I digress.

 

[ChefChiTown]

As I've mentioned, research conducted on primates (with whom we share 99%+ of our genetics, I might add) indicate that bisexuality is actually the norm, or at least the optimal trait. There's little to indicate that there's a true/false boolean value in our genetics.
It also fails to take into account the psychological factors. Perhaps they feel something isn't quite right but they don't know what it is and misinterpret or dismiss it? Just doing what they are expected to by society. Not to mention that denial is an incredibly powerful coping mechanism, though not very healthy. I won't bother repeating the part about action and impulse again.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe that there is technically no such thing as being heterosexual or homosexual for social animals, merely various shades of bisexuality. Some lean towards one end of the spectrum or the other, others are somewhere in the middle and can go either way, depending on what they are taught by community, what they had for lunch, and so on. It is fairly well established that sex reduces overall aggression in a community, which of course is a positive factor. But I digress.

The highlighted portion supports the "choice" argument.

:2 cents:

 

[mrtrebus]

Personally I do not think it is a choice, but if it is then we must all be born bisexual & choose at some point I suppose.

More importantly, why is this question being asked?
Why does it matter how consenting adults come about at their gender of sexual partner? :dunno:

 

[Imagine]

The highlighted portion supports the "choice" argument.

Again, yes, if you define homosexuality as the act itself, rather than the underlying cause. But it does nothing to support the claim that the urge itself, specifically the urge to only be with someone of your own gender in this case, is a conscious choice. In the case of a 50/50 bisexual person, I suppose it is an arbitrary choice whether you will have sex with a man or woman, and this may change from day to day, but it doesn't mean that he or she did or can choose to be attracted to both genders.

 

[Imagine]

Pie.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

A couple of years ago. I noticed that I liked shemales, but I'm choosing to be straight, because I think the gay action is immasculine. Plus it looks silly, especially when you get old and have a gut. The gay stuff looks like a plumber working on a sink, suddenly his clothes fly off and he's crouching there scratching his gut and breaking wind.

All in all, gays mostly keep to themselves. But without a doubt, I've noticed that ones who make threads like this are often turned on by trying to expose gay shit to straight guys. Reminds me of what my brother told me about the military (he's gay but no one gives him any hassle) that 99% of the sexual harrassment cases he handles between gays and straights are GAYS harassing STRAIGHT people. There's a fetish for trying to "turn" people gay (as if 1 person could change the gender completely, shows how delusional some folks are) and the sleazeballs who do it make life worse for gay folks.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

You don't choose to be anything. You just are, it's already ingrained in your DNA. I knew that I was into girls when I noticed girls, dreamed about girls, and got boners to girls.

I love your quote. The background to Rorschach is so damn cool. The writer is a far, far left liberal. He wanted to make the most evil, twisted right winger vigilante he could imagine. So he came up with Rorschach. But because he couldn't truly understand that mindset, he failed and made an antihero. Rorschach became one of the most beloved characters in comicdom.

I think it's cool that he could admit he got it wrong. Many liberals seem to think they have conservatives all figured out.

:hatsoff:

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

Personally I do not think it is a choice, but if it is then we must all be born bisexual & choose at some point I suppose.

More importantly, why is this question being asked?
Why does it matter how consenting adults come about at their gender of sexual partner? :dunno:

It's kind of a cop-out. It's nice to say that, because it's a wink and a nod at mores. But the truth of the matter is that all societies no matter the size or level of sophistication, need morals. If you apply moral relativism to the letter, than we would have to excuse damn near everything. Let's look at the case of the sexual cannibals in Germany and Japan. Or the incest cases that have popped up in Austria and Kentucky. If it's two consenting adults...

But society feels that we need to have some limits, so that it preserves a sense of Order.
:2 cents:

 

[tunsty]

30 secs after seeing Liberace on TV :1orglaugh

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

30 secs after seeing Liberace on TV :1orglaugh

:rofl:

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

As I've mentioned, research conducted on primates (with whom we share 99%+ of our genetics, I might add) indicate that bisexuality is actually the norm, or at least the optimal trait. There's little to indicate that there's a true/false boolean value in our genetics.
It also fails to take into account the psychological factors. Perhaps they feel something isn't quite right but they don't know what it is and misinterpret or dismiss it? Just doing what they are expected to by society. Not to mention that denial is an incredibly powerful coping mechanism, though not very healthy. I won't bother repeating the part about action and impulse again.

Personally, I'm inclined to believe that there is technically no such thing as being heterosexual or homosexual for social animals, merely various shades of bisexuality. Some lean towards one end of the spectrum or the other, others are somewhere in the middle and can go either way, depending on what they are taught by community, what they had for lunch, and so on. It is fairly well established that sex reduces overall aggression in a community, which of course is a positive factor. But I digress.

The primate example is weak, because they aren't rational thinkers the way humans are. They aren't as in control of their emotions, or aware of things beyond their base urges. They screw each other because it feels good, or to establish dominance. It's also found in mental hospitals where some retarded people end up unfortunately. They screw anything and everything, just because it's pleasure for them.

Now when you think of rational humans of normal intelligence, it's saying that they are lumped in there with apes and retarded people. I can't help myself at all. But in the same breath, they want to be considered completely normal and attack anyone who says they are seeking therapy to become straight.


We seek help for dyslexics? Folks who see letters jumbled up. But it's not P.C. to say the same thing with gays? Heck, psychotherapists are debating about whether to put Gender Identification Disorder (our beloved trannies) BACK in the DSM.

In the end, bisexuality as default for social animals doesn't make sense, because over time, bisexual and gay animals would be selected out in favor of straight animals, who would be spending 100% of their mating time in relations that could actually produce offspring.

 

[meesterperfect]

decide?
has it really come to that?

 

[Imagine]

The primate example is weak, because they aren't rational thinkers the way humans are. They aren't as in control of their emotions, or aware of things beyond their base urges. They screw each other because it feels good, or to establish dominance. It's also found in mental hospitals where some retarded people end up unfortunately. They screw anything and everything, just because it's pleasure for them.

That's debatable, but if I were to concede the point that these primates are less capable of rationalizing their behavior, would this not support my argument? If they are less influenced by social factors, clearly other factors must be more influential. Without any of that pesky reasoning getting in the way, animals and even people (or so you claim, I haven't really read anything about sexual behavior of "retarded" people) resort to bisexuality.

Now when you think of rational humans of normal intelligence, it's saying that they are lumped in there with apes and retarded people. I can't help myself at all. But in the same breath, they want to be considered completely normal and attack anyone who says they are seeking therapy to become straight.

Not sure what you're trying to say here or how it relates to what I've said...

We seek help for dyslexics? Folks who see letters jumbled up. But it's not P.C. to say the same thing with gays? Heck, psychotherapists are debating about whether to put Gender Identification Disorder (our beloved trannies) BACK in the DSM.

I don't care much for being politically correct. If gay people are happy being gay, good for them. What does it matter what the medical term for it is? Hell, being left handed is an abnormality, but I don't see any point in trying to "fix" it. I don't make an effort to inform left handed people that they are abnormal, but I will tell them that if I'm asked. Whether this abnormality is positive, negative or neither is another matter.

In the end, bisexuality as default for social animals doesn't make sense, because over time, bisexual and gay animals would be selected out in favor of straight animals, who would be spending 100% of their mating time in relations that could actually produce offspring.

It makes perfect sense. You're just thinking on an individual scale, when you should be examining the community as a whole. As I've said, it is well established that sex reduces aggression within a community. A community that is less aggressive towards each other are more likely to succeed than a community that is more aggressive. Thus, the genes shared in the former are more likely to spread to future generations.
The exact bisexuality ratio is rather arbitrary of course, but let's say 80/20 just to illustrate the point, meaning, roughly speaking, being willing to have sex with your own gender, but choosing a partner to mate with of the opposite gender. As long as you are able to reproduce with at least one female, it doesn't really matter how many males you screw around with on the side.

 

[nylo]

When did you decide to be straight?

Or is it continuous decision? A fight, if you may? Like MegaChurch Pastor Ted Haggard from the News.

Personally, I can't choose to be gay. Doesn't work for me. My switch might be broken.

Personally I don't think its a choice, I believe it occurs at the genetic level and there isn't much one can do to change it. I just did what was natural to me and that is I like women, almost to a fault but hey everyone needs a hobby :rofl:

but for some that may not be the case.

I really don't see what the big deal is personally, I have some gay/lesbian friends and just because they like those that are of their same gender make them any different than anyone else? Not really...

The problem is these conservative bible-thumping types are the ones that make this an issue. And from what I've found most of those are the biggest hypocrites going. What occurs behind someone's closed doors is not anyone else's business. As long as you don't shove it in my face or whathaveyou, I personally don't care what others do.

 

[dazzamac70]

Didn't have to decide - just came naturally!