Warships

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I am in America, not of it.
Not only that, but in WWII you served until it was done....there was no tour of duty, no 13months, and then you rotate out, you fought, until there was no fight left. I've noticed that it seems the soldiers that fought in the Pacific, suffered a lot more vile atrocities, fighting a battle-hardened enemy, with no concern for their own lives has to be a surreal nightmare. It has been my limited experience, that the soldiers from the Pacific theater, have far less forgiveness and understanding in their hearts, after having to deal with the mentality of that type of fighter. I also seem to remember seeing something to that effect in a documentary. I don't want anyone to think I am trying to minimize any one else's contribution, but the Japanese, seemed to have a tad less respect for life.
Most soldiers in WWII were enlisted "for the duration". If it had lasted 10 years they would have been in for 10 years. There was reassignment and rotation but often if was a whole unit or ship. Promotions would bring realignment or request to transfer would also be done but not just to get out of combat. The system of tours and individual rotations stated here in the Vietnam war. Don't know much more about it than that. And yes, the Japanese were a particularly violent culture at that time but a good portion of the world was also much different than we are today. In a large part of the world Human life(especially the peasants/lower classes) were considered by the Elete as not really worth all that much.
 
It has been my limited experience, that the soldiers from the Pacific theater, have far less forgiveness and understanding in their hearts, after having to deal with the mentality of that type of fighter. I also seem to remember seeing something to that effect in a documentary. I don't want anyone to think I am trying to minimize any one else's contribution, but the Japanese, seemed to have a tad less respect for life.
I'm going to try to restrain myself from writing an essay as I'm pretty passionate about this subject.
But I would definitely want to point it wasn't exclusive to the Japanese. Both sides were equally as brutal, racist and looked at the other as literally sub-human.

One issue is victor's justice; you hear all about the Axis atrocities in large part because they were prosecuted for their crimes. Allied war crimes, not so much. In fact, zero: not a single allied solider/leader/etc was convicted of a war crime in WWII. But it's not for a lack of material:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/03/humanities.highereducation
I'll leave it at that about that debate, since this thread is about warships. But I do want to add to John's story about another perspective. I've met more than several children & grandchildren of former Japanese WWII soldiers, and they tell me their father/grandfather dealt with PTSD in a much, much different way. Patton might have been berated for how he dealt with PTSD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_S._Patton_slapping_incidents), but that was pretty much standard in the Japanese military at the time. And that didn't change immediately following the war, where the Japanese soldiers too, suffered the same mental health effects. But between rebuilding a decimated country from scratch, foreign powers in charge and the complete dissolution of the entire Japanese military (including medical units), mental health support for soldiers wasn't exactly a priority.

So after the war, many veterans dealt with their mental health issues like so many other do: drinking. Japan was running out of adults to recruit in the later years of WWII, so they resorted increasingly on younger conscripts (many kamikaze pilots were literally teenagers - several films, books and documentaries on that). So many of them got their first taste of alcohol in the military, in a warzone, and you can imagine that's not the ideal way to develop your drinking habits.

So many of them would go into drunken rants about their experiences in the war, their grievances, and everything else. And you could imagine the effect that had on their children/grandchildren who saw this.

Unlike the allied soldiers, Japanese (and I would imagine German) veterans were not respected or honored. This was in large part to the "War Guilt Information Program" (WGIP)
http://www.sdh-fact.com/review-arti...s psychological,And it succeeded brilliantly.You can google the details, but basically the occupation force in Japan instilled how Japan was wrong about everything regarding the war, and imposed a sense of guilt and shame on those who participated - especially soldiers. So you had the families of the soldiers looking at them as monsters, and the soldiers themselves second-guessing themselves, even regretting participating in a war in which they had no choice.

So imagine being the child/grandchild of a Japanese solider, being indoctrinated through the WGIP and having that image of your elder as a horrific monster re-enforced through their drunken, incoherent rants about their experiences in the war. It's a far cry from gathering around an allied veteran and listening to their heroic war stories with admiring eyes. The Japanese veterans would be further shunned by their families, go into further depression, and dealt with it by, you guessed it, further drinking. And the vicious cycle continued.

Sorry for that getting long, but it's something I heard first hand from these families which doesn't get a lot of attention, but feel it really should. Because as bad as the Allies treated the mental health issues of their veterans, I feel that the soldiers on the other side got it worse.
 
Last edited:

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I am in America, not of it.
You are correct tvstrip. And the winners do write history. I suspect PSD and the like goes as far back into time as you want to go. Just "Not Manly" in the past. Although I m interested in the historical and physical details about warfare, I like I suspect you would too, hope that wars can be certainly minimized in the future. And feel free as far as I am concerned to add to the thread as you wish regarding those who served in the ships of the wars seen here or elsewhere.
 
You are correct tvstrip. And the winners do write history. I suspect PSD and the like goes as far back into time as you want to go. Just "Not Manly" in the past. Although I m interested in the historical and physical details about warfare, I like I suspect you would too, hope that wars can be certainly minimized in the future.
The saddest thing is that, even today, in the US, which has one of the most powerful & modern militaries in the world, mental health support for its veterans is inadequate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5563010/
This situation has created a crisis amongst our veterans. The current uneven access to appropriate mental health services that returning U.S. veterans encounter echoes the disparities in access to quality mental health services for the general population. The information presented here shows that the shortcomings of our health care system in addressing the mental health needs for our returning veterans may lead to the high suicide rates. Our findings suggest that mental health disparities are often a leading factor to the high suicide rates among veterans who experience depression and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

And if it's like this in the US, you can only imagine how bad soldiers in other countries must have it.
 
Back on topic:

Yugumo (Evening cloud) / Kazagumo (Wind Cloud)
Boxart.jpg


Abukuma (Nagara class)
10063562p.jpg


These three were among the fleet of one of the greatest, but also most underrated Japanese naval operational success in WWII: The evacuation of Kiska.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_occupation_of_Kiskahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cottage
In the face of an overwhelming allied force which literally annihilated the garrison on the neighboring island of Attu, the Japanese navy managed to evacuate the entire force of over 5000 personnel through a blockage under the cover of darkness and fog. Not a single casualty. Great example of a major "win" that doesn't involve death.

Interestingly, the allied naval force who eventually attacked and retook the completely abandoned island suffered 313 casualties in the "battle".
Among those involved was the:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Special_Service_Force
 

sj1

Love & Basketball
Sorry, I just wanted to add seeing the last couple days posts, I can not remember if it was on HBO or maybe the History Channel but they basically talked about the effects of war on soldiers starting with I believe it was the Civil War and through out the wars. I can not remember all of them, like one term was shell shock. They would kind of show early on they were telling soldiers you are ok, nothing wrong with you, shake it off. It was not long ago that PTSD was finally used and they started looking into the effects from war and so on. They showed soldiers through the eras and it was sad to see guys shaking, crying and sadly some killing themselves as they could not take it. I remember they would show how soldiers had trouble after their service and adjusting to civilian life. This one guy had not been out of his house in years and his wife finally got him to go to the grocery store with her and the whole time from the day before, to the day, the ride on the way and then in the store. I know it took them a really long time as his wife was checking with him always. Every second and every step he took was such a huge weight on him. Sad to see this guy so nervous about every small detail. But I believe in his mind he was still in a way in battle mode as he was aware of everything going on. Obviously he knew he wasn't but when he got around a lot of people it is what made it difficult. They did show where the they had meetings/ counseling for soldiers to tell how they felt and trying to help them out with their feelings. Sorry so long, take care.
 

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I am in America, not of it.
sj1 don't apologize for being relevant. We can add to this thread as needed and as I said, involve the humans as well as the objects. Probably make it more interesting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sj1

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I am in America, not of it.
1626054940291.png

USS Langley, USS Mississippi, USS New Mexico, and others at anchor off Culebra island, Puerto Rico, 18 Mar 1926.

1626055004881.png

USS Iowa passing Oscarsborg fortress in 1985, which 45 years earlier sunk german heavy cruiser Blücher during the invasion of Norway

1626055392188.png


Two Ospreys constructed their nest upon battleship Wisconsin’s TACAN antenna, April 2021. Norfolk.

1626055508154.png

New Mexico photographed from an airplane, while steaming in line with other battleships, 13 Apr 1919.

1626055571283.png


HMS Queen Elizabeth in the Suez Canal
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarshipPorn/comments/ofatk0/two_ospreys_constructed_their_nest_upon/
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: sj1

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I am in America, not of it.
1628221057623.png

The Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer USS Barry (DDG 52)

1628221134384.png

HMS Swale underway in the Mediterranean. September 1944

1628221226679.png

SMS Friedrich der Grosse steaming to Scapa Flow, November 1918.

1628221280579.png

Italian battleship Conte di Cavour with King Victor Emmanuel III, Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler aboard is in the midst of the grandiose naval review Rivista H. 5 May 1938, Gulf of Naples.

1628221387085.png

The light battlecruisers HMS Glorious and HMS Repulse in Scapa Flow.
 

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I am in America, not of it.
1628913204107.png

The battleship HMS Warspite, after her major reconstruction of 1934-37, entering the Grand Harbour in Malta, 1938


1628913263831.png

The French battleship Bretagne in 1921

1628913323793.png

American battleship USS Ostfriesland

1628913388871.png

USS Arizona with a pair of Wickes-class destroyers after completing her modernization, March 1931. Among the changes, a new black powder catapult was added, but its magazine is considered to have inadvertently led to Arizona's destruction at Pearl Harbor.

1628913477994.png


U-426 under attack in the North Atlantic by a Sunderland flying boat from the 10th Australian Squadron.
 

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I am in America, not of it.
1629336561077.png

California and Virginia nuclear powered guided missile cruisers

1629336615000.png

Action between U.S. Frigate Constitution and HMS Java, 29 December 1812. Painting in oils by Charles Robert Patterson.

1629336652189.png

Australian guided missile destroyer HMAS Brisbane firing missile.

1629336706900.png

The battleship HMS Howe off Rangitoto Island, New Zealand, in February

1629336914243.png

USS Houston (CA-30) , off San Diego, California, in October 1935, with President Franklin D. Roosevelt on board. She is flying an admiral's four-star flag at her foremast peak, and the Presidential flag at her mainmast peak.
 

Theopolis Q. Hossenffer

I am in America, not of it.
3 YEARS for a reconstruction????
Why not just start from scratch? Heck, they could build a Yamato-class in 2.5 years.
Perhaps being during the Depression held it up. Or maybe it really needed a lot of work. She was an old ship if I remember correctly. Lots of stuff began to change in the mid 1930's
 
Top