Wal-Mart, China, and The Bill Clinton Lie

[MustBeGood]

First, FUCK WAL-Mart. This company is the reason we have low paying service sector jobs in the United States as their policy of low prices guaranty. Which means their suppliers must cut cost, which we all know is labor. Sam Walton always had a vision of getting cheap goods from China:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/secrets/wmchina.html

"From the beginning, Walton had bought goods wherever he could get them cheapest, with any other considerations secondary," writes Bob Ortega, author of the Wal-Mart history, In Sam We Trust. By the early 1980s, Ortega reports, Walton "increasingly looked to imports, which were usually cheaper because factory workers were paid so much less in China and the other Asian countries."

Fuck you Sam.

Enter Bill clinton and his bull shit lie that trade with China will be beneficial for us:

http://www.manufacturingnews.com/news/10/0615/WTO.html

Bill Clinton, the country's most ardent booster of opening trade with China, looks especially imprudent 10 years later. During a press conference on March 29, 2000, Clinton said that granting China permanent normal trade relations (PNTR), which allowed China to gain entry into the WTO, would be a great deal for America. "We do nothing," Clinton said. "They have to lower tariffs. They open up telecommunications for investment. They allow us to sell cars made in America in China at much lower tariffs. They allow us to put our own distributorships there. They allow us to put our own parts there. We don't have to transfer technology or do joint manufacturing in China any more. This a hundred-to-nothing deal for America when it comes to the economic consequences."

It didn't quite work out that way. Since 2000, the trade deficit with China has surged by 173 percent, from $83 billion in 2000 to $227 billion in 2009. The United States has lost more than one-third of all its manufacturing jobs -- 5.6 million; U.S. wages have declined; the country has suffered a financial meltdown; it has spent $14 trillion on economic stimulus, only to experience the highest unemployment rates in generations and annual federal budget deficits of more than $1 trillion. These trends are not "likely to end," says Lighthizer.

Fuck you Bill.

So here we are 14 years later. Wal-Mart now has Target and K-Mart with them in the China import scam. Where Clinton said that opening trade with China would bring more prosperity here and change the political landscape in China. none of these things happen as China cheats from their currency manipulation and never open their markets to us fairly.

We need to change this situation by stopping the cargo ships from coming in with their cheap goods that you will have to replace anyways sooner from anything you bought US made because the products that China makes are crap. Only then will we see this economy get back on track like in the past when we all had disposable income after paying bills to buy other things that we made here.

Everyone wants the American Dream. No question to that. But we are never going to get there with cheap service sector jobs that pay $8-10 hour. Only when we start making things again and trading with others who play fair will we see this economy rebound like the one our parents enjoyed.

Last, I leave with this. The multiplier effect:

The multiplier effect describes how an increase in some economic activity starts a chain reaction that generates more activity than the original increase. The multiplier effect demonstrates the impact that reserve requirements set by the Federal Reserve have on the U.S. money supply. Here's how the multiplier effect works: Suppose the Fed sets reserve requirement at 10%, so a bank can loan $90 of a $100 customer deposit. This $90 is deposited by a borrower in another bank, which loans out $81 (90% of $90). Through the multiplier effect of continuing deposits and loans, the amount of money in circulation increases. The multiplier effect is not completely uniform - eg, some money won't be deposited domestically -- but overall the multiplier effect is apparent. The multiplier effect gives the Fed an important tool for managing the money supply. If it raises reserve requirements from 10% to 15%, only $85 is lent, the multiplier effect diminishes, and money supply growth decelerates.

 

[Philbert]

I think we should blame OTrama for the whole mess, after Slick Willie got done.
MustBeStupid has a good cut n paste going, but rarely has an actual opinion one can actually understand.

Raise your hand...do you shop at WalMart?
Millionaires and richer don't participate, please.
Secondly, does anyone think with vast Asian factories (and China especially) producing like quality goods for cheaper wholesale that anyone is going to insist on paying the USA more for the same product? Really?
One must deal with reality; no one in general is going to choose higher cost goods over much cheaper ones from a sense of loyalty...we'd all have adopted children and homeless living in every American household, every Euro chalrt and apt; we'd all sing Kumbaya on conference calls from Timbuktu to Munchen.
The solution to trade problems is to...well...solve them.
Produce goods in a different way...put automation where it's neded, negotiate foe things we do have cheaper or better for crap we don't need to compete for the existing market.
Umbrellas have no American parts...anywhere.
Not our area of expertise.
Tech is a good source to mass produce and compete, foodstuffs, lots of manufacturing is cheaper in the USA for overseas companies than importing to here...all GoldWings are made HERE for us and the world, at least until recently.
All we need is to replace the anti (successful) Capitalist gov we have and get some gung ho Americans in office to reduce onerous burdens placed on most small businesses and many larger ones...
Dems have lots of successful business persons in the party, but they have to work within a system that requires contacts and cronyism to work.
Incompetence is the Dems most important product.
Well, that and Libtards , who are flourishing like rats at the City Dump.

 

[mongo18]

Wait, did failbert just claim that we could fix the trade deficit by giving more corporate breaks? I'm sorry MBG, you wanted a conversation and all you got was this shitstain.
What's happening here now is a direct result of open trade. In order to be competitive with China we have to match their manufacturing costs. The way to do that is to reduce labor and materials costs, which in turn lowers the quality of the product and the standard of living. The only way to maintain our standard of living is to impose tariffs so that cheaply made Chinese goods cost as much as goods made here using better quality materials and workers paid a wage that allows them to afford a standard of living that could be seen as reasonable in this country. In that situation, most people are going to buy American. It amounts to rigging the system in favor of the American working class, which is the greatest fear of the republican party.

 

[MustBeGood]

Wait, did failbert just claim that we could fix the trade deficit by giving more corporate breaks? I'm sorry MBG, you wanted a conversation and all you got was this shitstain.
What's happening here now is a direct result of open trade. In order to be competitive with China we have to match their manufacturing costs. The way to do that is to reduce labor and materials costs, which in turn lowers the quality of the product and the standard of living. The only way to maintain our standard of living is to impose tariffs so that cheaply made Chinese goods cost as much as goods made here using better quality materials and workers paid a wage that allows them to afford a standard of living that could be seen as reasonable in this country. In that situation, most people are going to buy American. It amounts to rigging the system in favor of the American working class, which is the greatest fear of the republican party.

I don't bother reading Phil's BS. He takes the Tea Party BS at 100 % face value.

But from your post, sounds like that BS trickle down economics that Republicans keep claiming he is posting on.

Like the "Bush Era Tax Cuts" really created jobs like W claimed it will.

 

[Philbert]

Mongo, you are one dumb motherfucker.
And you work at it...gotta respect perseverance.
If anyone missed the errors and lies in his post, ask me for help.

Jezuz...no shame.

 

[MustBeGood]

Plus the problem of corporate greed, stockholders dividends are more important than paying taxes.

So shell game with transferring profits to overseas banks with low tax rates while they think the American people should pay taxes for everything from defense to infrastructure.

But at least Reagan try to do something about it:

Twenty-five years ago, President Ronald Reagan was horrified by a similar epidemic of
corporate tax dodging. “I just didn’t realize that things had gotten that far out of line,” Reagan
reportedly told his Treasury Secretary. And Reagan solved the problem, by sweeping away
corporate tax loopholes with the Tax Reform Act of 1986.
But over time, Reagan’s 1986 decision to get rid of corporate tax subsidies and make our
big corporations pay their fair share has been reversed. Ironically, that reversal has been led in
large part by politicians who claim to be Reagan’s disciples and to oppose government
subsidies that interfere with market incentives. Indeed, many of these purported fans of
Reagan want to expand corporate subsidies and tilt public policy even further in favor of
corporate tax avoidance.
There is plenty of blame to share for today’s sad situation. Corporate apologists will
correctly point out that the loopholes and tax breaks that allow low-tax corporations to
minimize or eliminate their income taxes are generally quite legal, and that they stem from
laws passed over the years by Congress and signed by various Presidents. But that does not
mean that low-tax corporations bear no responsibility for their low taxes. The laws were not
enacted in a vacuum; they were adopted in response to relentless corporate lobbying, threats
and campaign support.
This study is the latest in a series of
corporate-tax reports by Citizens for Tax
Justice and the Institute on Taxation and
Economic Policy beginning in 1984.1 Our
most recent prior report, issued in 2004,
covered corporate taxes in 2001 through
2003. As in our previous reports, this new
study includes some companies that paid
substantial taxes and others that paid little
or nothing. The methodological appendix at
the end of the study explains in more detail
how the companies were chosen and how
their effective tax rates were calculated. The
notes on specific companies beginning on
page 53 add more details.
1A description of the role that CTJ and ITEP’s corporate tax studies played in the enactment of the 1986 Tax Reform
Act can be found in Robert S. McIntyre, “Remembering the 1986 Tax Reform Act,” Tax Notes, Oct. 17, 2011.

But his party would later reverse this.

http://www.ctj.org/corporatetaxdodgers/CorporateTaxDodgersReport.pdf

 

[Mayhem]

When it comes to the spate of Free Trade Agreements, there is no one to blame because both/all sides of the aisle embraced the concept. Hell, even Rush Limbaugh was on Clinton's side when NAFTA, etc was being debated.

 

[bobjustbob]

You'll have to back a lot further and deeper than NAFTA and Walmart to understand the decline of manufacturing in USA.

 

[Philbert]

We clung to the adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
The world began to work on extensive automation and complex interlocking manufacturing partnerships long before the US admitted it was using outmoded technology and sustems to compete, along with overhigh Union salary structures and odious contracts that locked up most of the big plants to slow and expensive production, inability to restructure to meet competition , etc.
We tend towards complacency during good times, and we paid a price.There's always another reason or 2 for these kinda cycles, but it set us up for a loss of market and dominance that usually doesn't come back.
Cat's outa the bag, it opened Pandora's box kinda thing...

 

[MustBeGood]

You'll have to back a lot further and deeper than NAFTA and Walmart to understand the decline of manufacturing in USA.

And Wal-Mart has been around also, in the 70's they where just in the South though.

After all of these trade deals, that big business favored, is the start of the bigger decline in our economy with jobs with moving manufacturing jobs to low wage countries.

 

[MustBeGood]

When it comes to the spate of Free Trade Agreements, there is no one to blame because both/all sides of the aisle embraced the concept. Hell, even Rush Limbaugh was on Clinton's side when NAFTA, etc was being debated.

But Clinton was the biggest cheer leader.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Wait, did failbert just claim that we could fix the trade deficit by giving more corporate breaks? I'm sorry MBG, you wanted a conversation and all you got was this shitstain.
What's happening here now is a direct result of open trade. In order to be competitive with China we have to match their manufacturing costs. The way to do that is to reduce labor and materials costs, which in turn lowers the quality of the product and the standard of living. The only way to maintain our standard of living is to impose tariffs so that cheaply made Chinese goods cost as much as goods made here using better quality materials and workers paid a wage that allows them to afford a standard of living that could be seen as reasonable in this country. In that situation, most people are going to buy American. It amounts to rigging the system in favor of the American working class, which is the greatest fear of the republican party.

Tariffs should have been imposed from the very start. Repeal NAFTA bring jobs back to America.

 

[Mayhem]

But Clinton was the biggest cheer leader.

The President is always the biggest cheerleader. It goes with the job.

 

[MustBeGood]

The President is always the biggest cheerleader. It goes with the job.

True.

Maybe Clinton had no idea that the Chinese would not play fair at the time.

But why did our manufacturing base was quick to move overseas?

 

[bobjustbob]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Philbert again."

Read this. Phil captured this entire article in a nut shell. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/04/05/366339/index.htm

I have been there. The main plant is as behemoth as the company that constructed it. It's downfall is not unique to what has happened to many other manufacturing industries in USA prior or since.

 

[Mayhem]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Philbert again."

Read this. Phil captured this entire article in a nut shell. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/04/05/366339/index.htm

I have been there. The main plant is as behemoth as the company that constructed it. It's downfall is not unique to what has happened to many other manufacturing industries in USA prior or since.

OK, I'll cover this, this one time in the absolutely pointless hope that he one day manages to make another coherent post that speaks to the topic and not his love of ingesting lead paint chips and gasoline fumes. But just this once.

***You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Philbert again. Jeezus Tapdancing Christ! :eek: I repped Philbert? I need to call my weed source and tell her...to keep up the good work. :clap:

 

[Philbert]

Like so many other psychologically impaired losers you seem to have a hard time separating your demons from other people's; trying to use your addiction to "huffing" as somehow my problem is so textbook.
I have seen your breakdowns in the past, you obviously have a deep seated disconnect that haunts you...tough shit, your life your problem.
An obvious symptom is the fantasy world you keep close to you and occasionally slip into...like this

" Jeezus Tapdancing Christ! I repped Philbert?"

Actually, you didn't do any such thing... you mostly post hysterical profane flames in my direction when you just can't keep up the thread of the conversation you immediately go defensive and screech nasty "doo doo head" type flame posts...
I see where you were recently happy that the last troll was out the airlock, and now you and ratturd could have tea and crumpets while calling each other idiot and fool with your pinky fingers raised in the air like the lame idiots you two tend to be.
You completely ignored that since you were still here, that just wasn't so. You are by far a nastier and much more childish troll than I ever could be. My limits are set in stone while you go as far over the edge as you can hoping to escape the spotlight of my attention.
Pitiful...good job sublimating the truth and supporting your fantasies.
BTW...I enjoyed reading those posts and watching you two try to pretend ya'll were so civilized an all...please.
Post after post on how "stupid" and "wrong" the other was, like a pair of Sorority Sisters cat fighting...priceless and funny.
Thanks for the good time.

 

[Mayhem]

Yup. I knew that coherence was temporary. Now back to your self-loathing crybaby bullshit. I keep cracking up that you think anyone wants you here or is interested in your drivel when the evidence to the contrary is right in front of your face.

Post after post on how "stupid" and "wrong" the other was, like a pair of Sorority Sisters cat fighting

priceless and funny....coming from you. We're all looking forward to your next banning. I'm sure it's right around the corner.

 

[xfire]

 

[Philbert]

Yup. I knew that coherence was temporary. Now back to your self-loathing crybaby bullshit. I keep cracking up that you think anyone wants you here or is interested in your drivel when the evidence to the contrary is right in front of your face.

Wow...you have no limits to what you randomly post, huh?
Sad and pathetic.
Not that I feel any pity for you or those who have to deal with you on a daily basis.
Just for the record...just what do you call "self-loathing" that I've ever posted? I know it's probably more of a made-up adolescent "you're a doo doo head" type of response, but just in case you actually have a point could you link or post something I have said that qualifies as "self-loathing" ? And while you're there what do you think is "crybaby" that I've posted as well?
Your posts get pretty out there, but this is pretty specific and you should be able to back it up.
Maybe not...it could cut into your huffing or drinking time, and I know that's major time spent in your life...

Try on some Big Boy pants for a change...:crybaby: