Vatican recognizes state of Palestine in new treaty

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

Fall in line, Catholics...

http://news.yahoo.com/vatican-recognizes-state-palestine-treaty-134319446.html

Vatican recognizes state of Palestine in new treaty
Associated Press By NICOLE WINFIELD
8 hours ago

VATICAN CITY (AP) — The Vatican officially recognized the state of Palestine in a new treaty finalized Wednesday, immediately sparking Israeli ire and accusations that the move hurt peace prospects.

The treaty, which concerns the activities of the Catholic Church in Palestinian territory, is both deeply symbolic and makes explicit that the Holy See has switched its diplomatic recognition from the Palestine Liberation Organization to the state of Palestine.

The Vatican had welcomed the decision by the U.N. General Assembly in 2012 to recognize a Palestinian state and had referred to the Palestine state since. But the treaty is the first legal document negotiated between the Holy See and the Palestinian state, giving the Vatican's former signs of recognition an unambiguous confirmation in a formal, bilateral treaty.

"Yes, it's a recognition that the state exists," said the Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said it was "disappointed."

"This move does not promote the peace process and distances the Palestinian leadership from returning to direct and bilateral negotiations," the ministry said in a text message.

The United States and Israel oppose recognition, arguing that it undermines U.S.-led efforts to negotiate an Israeli-Palestinian deal on the terms of Palestinian statehood. Most countries in Western Europe have held off on recognition, but some have hinted that their position could change if peace efforts remain deadlocked.

The treaty was finalized days before Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas visits Pope Francis at the Vatican. Abbas is heading to Rome to attend Francis' canonization Sunday of two new saints from the Holy Land.

"This is a very important recognition as the Vatican has a very important political status that stems from its spiritual status," said Abbas' senior aide, Nabil Shaath. "We expect more EU countries to follow."

The Vatican has been referring unofficially to the state of Palestine since 2012.

During Pope Francis' 2014 visit to the Holy Land, the Vatican's official program referred to Abbas as the president of the "state of Palestine."

The Vatican's foreign minister, Monsignor Antoine Camilleri, acknowledged the change in status, but said the shift was simply in line with the Holy See's position.

The Holy See clearly tried to underplay the development, suggesting that its 2012 press statement welcoming the U.N. vote constituted its first official recognition. Nowhere in that statement does the Vatican say it recognizes the state of Palestine, and the Holy See couldn't vote for the U.N. resolution because it doesn't have voting rights at the General Assembly.

The Vatican's efforts to downplay the move seemed justified given the swift condemnation of the development by Israeli groups: The American Jewish Committee said it was "counterproductive to all who seek true peace between Israel and the Palestinians." The Anti-Defamation League said it was "premature."

"We appreciate that the Vatican's basic intention is to promote Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation, but believe that this diplomatic recognition will be unhelpful to that end," the ADL's Abraham Foxman said.

The 2012 U.N. vote recognized Palestine as a non-member observer state, made up of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem, lands Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war.

The Palestinians celebrated the vote as a milestone in their quest for international recognition. Most countries in Africa, Asia and South America have individually recognized Palestine. In Western Europe, Sweden took the step last year, while several parliaments have approved non-binding motions urging recognition.

This isn't the first time that the Vatican under Francis has taken diplomatic moves knowing that it would please some quarters and ruffle feathers elsewhere: Just last month, he referred to the slaughter of Armenians by Turkish Ottomans a century ago as a "genocide," prompting Turkey to recall its ambassador.

___

AP writers Ian Deitch in Jerusalem and Mohammed Daraghmeh in Ramallah, West Bank contributed.

 

[Supafly]

It is hope for the palestinian people who hang in the ghetto, in a state of partially being granted own decisions and own regulations, but all still under the power of Israel, should the Israelis be disappoinnted by any situation, they can, as just in the last year, lock down the internal revenue or other cash flow and bring this so-called self-regulated Gaza to a crunching halt.

Peace can only be made by two sovereign entities, which we move forward to now.

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

Bullshit. I can disagree with the pope all I want on this issue. The land of "Palestine" has nothing to do with the squatters there. The Romans referred to ancient Israel as "Palestine" in a derogatory manner. The modern "Palestinians" adopted that name in order to rationalize their terrorist actions and to occupy Jewish land. The "Palestinian" people come from Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Before he went directly to hell to be sodomized daily by Lucifer, Yassir Arafat was a fucking Egyptian.

The whole region belongs to Israel and this activism on the part of Francis is unsettling and unwelcome. This isn't a matter in which the pope can be infallible.

The entire Palestinian cause is based on the lie that Arabs are indigenous to Palestine and Jews aren't. The Israeli's have offered a two state solution three times and "Palestinian" officials have denied it because they don't want a two state solution. They want the Jews gone.

 

[sean miguel]

^ what he said, particularly that last line.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

Bullshit. I can disagree with the pope all I want on this issue. The land of "Palestine" has nothing to do with the squatters there. The Romans referred to ancient Israel as "Palestine" in a derogatory manner. The modern "Palestinians" adopted that name in order to rationalize their terrorist actions and to occupy Jewish land. The "Palestinian" people come from Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Before he went directly to hell to be sodomized daily by Lucifer, Yassir Arafat was a fucking Egyptian.

The whole region belongs to Israel and this activism on the part of Francis is unsettling and unwelcome. This isn't a matter in which the pope can be infallible.

The entire Palestinian cause is based on the lie that Arabs are indigenous to Palestine and Jews aren't. The Israeli's have offered a two state solution three times and "Palestinian" officials have denied it because they don't want a two state solution. They want the Jews gone.

"You must spread some reputation".

 

[Will E Worm]

The Vatican officially recognized the state of Palestine in a new treaty finalized Wednesday, immediately sparking Israeli ire and accusations that the move hurt peace prospects.

Why aren't they seeking a peaceful solution?



Jews will be a minority by 2016
http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-say-jews-will-be-a-minority-by-2016/


http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Palestine


Birobidjan is the real home of the Jews?


http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Birobidjan



Birobidzhan – The First Jewish State before the Jewish State

http://www.jewishhistory.org/birobidzhan/

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

In case anyone forgets.

 

[Will E Worm]

I see you can't answer the question.


:tongue:

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

I answered in my first post. Israel has and always will be the Jewish homeland, promised by God. Now I know you interpret the Bible in your own convoluted way and you are extremely judgmental (even considering your love for tranny porn and that you condone mass murder in Baltimore) but do you just completely ignore the parts of the old testament that conflict with your own opinion? That's rhetorical, I know you do. I do too. But at least I admit that I'm not a very good Catholic.

 

[Will E Worm]

I answered in my first post. Israel has and always will be the Jewish homeland, promised by God. Now I know you interpret the Bible in your own convoluted way and you are extremely judgmental (even considering your love for tranny porn and that you condone mass murder in Baltimore) but do you just completely ignore the parts of the old testament that conflict with your own opinion? That's rhetorical, I know you do. I do too. But at least I admit that I'm not a very good Catholic.

 

[Deepcover]

In case anyone forgets.

Leave him alone...Wormy's cool

 

[Ulysses31]

Bullshit. I can disagree with the pope all I want on this issue. The land of "Palestine" has nothing to do with the squatters there. The Romans referred to ancient Israel as "Palestine" in a derogatory manner. The modern "Palestinians" adopted that name in order to rationalize their terrorist actions and to occupy Jewish land. The "Palestinian" people come from Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Before he went directly to hell to be sodomized daily by Lucifer, Yassir Arafat was a fucking Egyptian.

The whole region belongs to Israel and this activism on the part of Francis is unsettling and unwelcome. This isn't a matter in which the pope can be infallible.

The entire Palestinian cause is based on the lie that Arabs are indigenous to Palestine and Jews aren't. The Israeli's have offered a two state solution three times and "Palestinian" officials have denied it because they don't want a two state solution. They want the Jews gone.

Totally agree! I used to believe all the crap the media put out that makes the Israelis look like evil occupiers and the Palestinians a poor people yearning for freedom, then I saw the light! Palestinians do deserve freedom, from Hamas! ME countries like Qatar and Iran give millions to the Palestinian leadership not to help the people but to use on weapons and tunnels with the goal of eventually eliminating the state if Israel, all these non muslim protesters couldn't care less about the average Palestinian, it's just pure Anti-Semitism. Palestinian refugees are treated like animals in neighbouring muslim countries and a few weeks back ISIS started chopping off Palestinian heads in a refugee camp in Syria. Your average Palestinian would secretly prefer to be ruled by the Israelis (Israeli Arabs have it easy) as Hamas rule through violence and intimidation killing political opponents and forcing people to be used as human shields, they orchestrated the last conflict and forced Israel to retaliate then maximised their civilian casualties so they could get western sympathy/money/comdemnation of Israel although it seemed to backfire as the majority of the west issued a few harsh words against Israel yet did little to stop them in their Gaza operation. Hamas themselves say they are committed to the destruction of Israel so what do all the people here demanding a 2 state solution say about that?

 

[Supafly]

I don't think that the acceptance of a palestinian state says that Israel is specifically good or bad or whatever. It just leads the way to a solution that is not to be found like the way things run. The slow process of the settlers doing the inofficial dirty work of eating away the land of the Palestinians and the very little diplomatic weight that the Palestnians have as they still hang on Israels financial and structural tit make real and fast progress almost impossible.

 

[Deepcover]

"You must spread some reputation".

How many times are you going to give rep to that arrogant schmuck?????

 

[GodsEmbryo]

I don't think that the acceptance of a palestinian state says that Israel is specifically good or bad or whatever. It just leads the way to a solution that is not to be found like the way things run. The slow process of the settlers doing the inofficial dirty work of eating away the land of the Palestinians and the very little diplomatic weight that the Palestnians have as they still hang on Israels financial and structural tit make real and fast progress almost impossible.

Wisest response of the entire thread. Let's leave it at that.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Supadupafly again.

 

[Supafly]

Thank you!

I have discussed this with several people in the past days, partially because the president of Israel, Rivlin has just visited Germany, and Kiel, for some serious talks. Sadly, most of the people are either very anti-israel or like, We got to be on their side, we are german".

I think that Israel was created in a drastic way, solving problems in several areas of the world, but creating a new one. I would advise to take a map that has the outlines of the territory that makes up all of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. Take a straight ruler and draw a horizontal line taking the lower, say, fourth or fifth (The exact size would have to be calculated) off of the upper rest.

The upper part becomes Israel, the lower part becomes Palestine. Jerusaleme becomes a free city, where religions can be catered to on a private level.

Note: I am watching TV on the side, so this is a rough outline

 

[sean miguel]

the vatican can suck my dong but since I'm not a 12-year-old they'd decline.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

Bullshit. I can disagree with the pope all I want on this issue. The land of "Palestine" has nothing to do with the squatters there. The Romans referred to ancient Israel as "Palestine" in a derogatory manner. The modern "Palestinians" adopted that name in order to rationalize their terrorist actions and to occupy Jewish land. The "Palestinian" people come from Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Before he went directly to hell to be sodomized daily by Lucifer, Yassir Arafat was a fucking Egyptian.

The whole region belongs to Israel and this activism on the part of Francis is unsettling and unwelcome. This isn't a matter in which the pope can be infallible.

The entire Palestinian cause is based on the lie that Arabs are indigenous to Palestine and Jews aren't. The Israeli's have offered a two state solution three times and "Palestinian" officials have denied it because they don't want a two state solution. They want the Jews gone.

Some history for you (All historical data can be found on wiki)... The region was among the first in the world to see human habitation and had multiple civilisations, cultures and ethnicities coming and going. The first known mention of Palestine as probable land or people is found on Egyptian and Assyrian artifacts dating from around 1150 BC and later, with the first clear mention of Palestine as a region in the 5th century BC by Greece scholars. The first record of the name Israel is found on Egyptian artefacts from around 1209 BC refering to an ethnic group. Israelites were Canaanites (Canaan was a district of Egypt) who started to differentiate themselves around roughly the same time for cultural and religious reasons. All other references of Israel come from Hebrew biblical sources with the United Monarchy dated at 1050-930 BC, leading to the Kingdom of Israel (930-720BC) and the Kingdom of Judah (roughly 8 century-586BC). All three kingdoms are challenged by literary and archaelogical evidence questioning the historicity and claims made.

Any reasoning that valid claims on land can be made because of a historical fact that "my ancestors used to live there" are not only absurd but a dangerous concept that allows everybody to make the very same claims. The region has been controlled by Egyptians, Canaanites, Philistines, Tjekker, Ancient Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Umayads, Abbasids, Seljuqs, Fatamids, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, the British, the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, the Egyptian Republic, and mondern date Israelis and Palestinians. Meaning that about everybody in the Middle-East, Europe and Asia could claim Israel en Palestine. Or that for that same matter Norway, Iceland, any Indian tribe, Spain, Portugal, France, the United Kindom, the Netherlands, Russia, Mexico etc. could claim land in the USA. Just to draw a comparison.

If you allow this reasoning however and allow Israel historical claims over this region but at the same say that Palestine "has nothing to do with the squatters there" and "modern Palestinians adopted that name" you're not only cherry picking, but, I'm sorry to say, it makes you a hypocrite and a liar as well.

When it complicate matters more by involving religion and allowing a nation to make claims because of a god, I find it very disturbing that people have no problems with Israel playing the religious card, and allowing it in every facet with the "promessed land" that needs to be defended at all costs (even when historical claims are disputed), yet are the first to condemn the intifadah of Palestinians because "they are Islamic extremists". Although people are right to condemn extremism, I fail to see any consistency in your claim, or the agreement of Animus, Sabrina and Ulysses. If people allow one religious extremism above another, it's hypocrite.

For any solution to be succesful we/they need to let go of historical and religious claims, and of the concept that there are good and bad guys in this story. For that reason I find it a big step forward that the Vatican recognizes the state of Palestine as it underlines that both nations have a right to exist.

 

[Ulysses31]

Thank you!

I have discussed this with several people in the past days, partially because the president of Israel, Rivlin has just visited Germany, and Kiel, for some serious talks. Sadly, most of the people are either very anti-israel or like, We got to be on their side, we are german".

I think that Israel was created in a drastic way, solving problems in several areas of the world, but creating a new one. I would advise to take a map that has the outlines of the territory that makes up all of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. Take a straight ruler and draw a horizontal line taking the lower, say, fourth or fifth (The exact size would have to be calculated) off of the upper rest.

The upper part becomes Israel, the lower part becomes Palestine. Jerusaleme becomes a free city, where religions can be catered to on a private level.

Note: I am watching TV on the side, so this is a rough outline

Even if this happens there will still be war, Iran and Qatar will continue to fund the likes of Hamas in their fight to eliminate Israel, they pretty much say so all the time when they talk to Arab media although they water it down when talking to western media, Radical Islam doesn't compromise, it conquers, always has done and always will do.

 

[BeatMan]

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a
Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle
against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality
today there is no difference between Jordanians,
Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and
tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of
a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand
that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian
people' to oppose Zionism.

"For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state
with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa.
While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa,
Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we
reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even
a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

(PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein, in a 1977
interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw.)



Abdul Hamid Sharif, Prime Minister of Jordan declared in 1980, “The Palestinians and Jordanians do not belong to different nationalities. They hold the same Jordanian passports, are Arabs and have the same Jordanian culture.”


palestinians are a myth says hamas member "they are just saudis and egyptians"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU