Turkey to block 'insulting' Web sites

eh, the only reason that they have "free speech" in america is because long ago they realized that if you keep the dog on a short leash he might bite the hand of the master, but give him a little bit of room and then he's content to sniff and piss in the bushes. In other words, the government realized that if you allow dissenting opinion, while brutally surpressing any dissenting action, then eventually people will be content merely to speak out while not actually doing anything about it, and it really makes the job of upholding the status qou a lot easier. Plus having all these ambigious liberties gives them the right to do pretty much anything that they want to and not have it be against the law.

In other countries people don't live as luxuriously as americans, which is a huge bit of the reason why americans are generally pretty apathetic about everything. Also contary to popular belief, those countries don't have nearly the ammount of propaganda that we are exposed to. The reason that it seems like they do is because they only have the most simple and straight-forward propaganda that seems so obvious, because they are laking in the myriad of subtle and subconscious forms that we take for granted. think about it, how much information do you receive everyday? probably hundreds of messages, and that's not even the stuff that you activley search for. take into account books, movies, TV, the internet, it's massive compared to BFE where they don't even have a newspaper and they reecive thier information via relatives in the cities.

What I'm trying to get at is that in other places people who talk about overthrowing the government actively try to do so, and often succeed, so it's neccesary for the state to impose harhser restrictions on it's citizens if it wants to get away with robbing them the same way that ours does.
 
Exactly my point of bringing it up. I can't imagine not being able to say Bush is a ass on the Internet. :( We must continue to fight to keep our rights as given to us. Our first amendment rights are our most valuable of assets my friend. To turn a blind eye to the trickle of things being "slowly" taken from us will be our ruin. Nothing I can't think of has ever been attacked/challenged more than those rights. Its an ongoing battle that we must continue to stop the stifling attempts made on us dead in its tracks.

Like everything in life there are some exceptions. I think the right of free speech is a touchy subject. Many things while they shouldn't be stopped, are in need of better regulations. Regulations can keep both sides of the coin content. Talk radio as with porn for example 2257, shouldn't be so extreme as to shut them down. More safeguards are needed to protect our children from everything though, sorry to say. IMHO only of course.

When the day comes they say I can't call Bush a ass, they've stepped over the line. ;)

I'm sorry, I'm rambling again and my mind is in ten different directions right now. lol A lot of work today.

LL

Ah but what sense you speak!:glugglug:
 
Has anyone who has so far posted on here ever actually BEEN to Turkey - i have
or does anyone have any Turkish friends - i have

:

i note with interest no one has said they have been to Turkey or have Turkish friends

some good posts though - LadyLove, Calpoon, RogueWolf, parts of Dick etc

keep 'em coming :)
 
It's worrying, to be frank, that this kind of thing is still going on. I've never believed that Turkey as it is today is ready for EU membership, although much of it's urban population live European lives. However, the politics and non-urban population of Turkey have yet to embrace European ideals.

Unfortunately, my own government, UK, seem to be quite keen on Turkish entry, no doubt because the Turks would help us in voting in the Euro Parliament due to the large expat Turkish community in the UK. This news, and the Armenian genocide, is quietly sweeped under the carpet here too, only to be remembered when EU membership is talked about.
 
Turkey can do whatever it wants within it's own country as long as it doesn't harm other countreis surrounding it. It shouldn't expect to become a part of the EU though, if it decides to implement such a law.

However, the reasoning that it shouldn't join the EU because we have little in common and isn't nearly rich enough would also work for countries like Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Bulgaria (which also wants to join if I'm not mistaken), Albania (I wouldn't be too surprised if it joined the EU as well pretty soon, although by then I'll probably be packing my bags and emigrate to a better place, like Somalia!!!) and many other central/eastern european countries.

(and yes, I've been to Turkey, but that was 11 years ago)
 

BNF

Ex-SuperMod
The unwritten, but often spoken, reason that Turkey will not get EU membership is that "no one" wants a Muslim country, let alone one that shares borders with Syria, Iraq and Iran admitted.

There are all valid reasons and histories posted above, but IMO those are the real reasons.
 
The unwritten, but often spoken, reason that Turkey will not get EU membership is that "no one" wants a Muslim country.

This is totally true, its the elephant in the corner on the whole issue of Turkish membership. But really, it shouldn't be if Turkey claims to have a secular society. If Turkey embraced European ideals, which I think are fully compatible with truely modern Islam, then this would benefit the Middle East as it would show people that Islam is compatible with secular democracy.
 
eh, the only reason that they have "free speech" in america is because long ago they realized that if you keep the dog on a short leash he might bite the hand of the master, but give him a little bit of room and then he's content to sniff and piss in the bushes. In other words, the government realized that if you allow dissenting opinion, while brutally surpressing any dissenting action, then eventually people will be content merely to speak out while not actually doing anything about it, and it really makes the job of upholding the status quo a lot easier.

If that's the case, how do you account for our massive civil war?
 
Very true BNF although i didn't want to be the one who stated it.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't like Turkey however, it is a beautiful country and its people are terrific in nature (in my experience, i have been to Turkey on Holidays a couple of times) but we all need to respect any countries inherant right to rule as it sees fit and it is after all a Muslim country, who take great offence at pornography or what it deems to be inappropriate material to the wellbeing of its citizens. Turks are not on the same scale as the Taliban or even anywhere near as extreme as Saudi either so i wouldn't get all 'western' on this topic and instaed spare a little understanding of different cultures instead.:2 cents: :thumbsup:

It is woth noting as well the great help Turkey are giving in the war against Terror, admittedly i feel its an attempt to get into the EU's good books but there help is greatly appreciated all the same.
 
If that's the case, how do you account for our massive civil war?

I'd love to talk about the civil war, and I think there's a few other threads about it allready, but I was just talking about laws restricting liberties and control of revolutionary/criminal groups. Which is 100% relevent to the civil war, but the civil was is not relvent to this thread in my opinion.
 

Philbert

Banned
i note with interest no one has said they have been to Turkey or have Turkish friends

some good posts though - LadyLove, Calpoon, RogueWolf, parts of Dick etc

keep 'em coming :)

Calm down...I've been to Turkey many times, I just happened to be at work 'til now.
There's no secret about the Internet policeing going on, no mystery about Turkey's yin/yang "city/country" split with Europe and the East...Asia Minor is across the Bosphorus, one small bridge and you leave Europe and enter Asia.
Turkey is unlike any other country, a paradox in so many ways.
Turkey is an important ally of the West, and the US. Nobody's perfect, but Turkey is huge and has many tribal influences, past and present.
But when the leaders try to keep a small lid on a big problem, it's gonna boil over.
I think, in my small way, it's too soon for Turkey to become a EU member.
And like so many Muslim countries, Turkey is gonna have to come to grips with what some say God demands, and what many believe is what they want for their country's (and their children's) future.
Folks...Turkey is way cool to visit, and so are many Islamic countries.
Just don't forget where you are, and eat a ham sandwich walking down the street in your bikini.:D
And watch out wearing those American Flag T-shirts...
 
... Turkey is an important ally of the West, and the US. Nobody's perfect, but Turkey is huge and has many tribal influences, past and present.
But when the leaders try to keep a small lid on a big problem, it's gonna boil over.
I think, in my small way, it's too soon for Turkey to become a EU member.
And like so many Muslim countries, Turkey is gonna have to come to grips with what some say God demands, and what many believe is what they want for their country's (and their children's) future.
...

Good post chief - i probably agree it's too soon for Turkey to join EU but i reckon it probably will sometime in next 10 - 20 years

- just for info for those who aren't quite up to speed on current composition of EU - it's Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria and Romania ( listed pretty much in order of joining )

so we can see that countries that were the West's communist or even Russian enemies for nearly 50 years are now part of EU - if they could do it ( when they have been probably as relatively poor in relation to Western Europe as Turkey is now ) then i don't think it's right to rule out the possibility of Turkey joining
 

BNF

Ex-SuperMod
so we can see that countries that were the West's communist or even Russian enemies for nearly 50 years are now part of EU - if they could do it ( when they have been probably as relatively poor in relation to Western Europe as Turkey is now ) then i don't think it's right to rule out the possibility of Turkey joining

But surely you see (experience) a dramatically different culture in Turkey as in even the former eastern bloc? It's also pretty fair to say that those former eastern bloc nations were under the thumb, involuntarily, of Russia/USSR. Their histories (broadly speaking) are one of involvement and contribution to Europe, where Turkey has always been an outsider, just arriving in Europe to plunder and then return (by force or self destruction) to their post as a hinge between Christian Europe and Muslim middle east.

Don't forget that even with these most recent arrivals to the EU, though by charter they are members, that the big boys really think of them as the EU. I mean, just go to Bulgaria or Romania for 30 minutes..... it's a long, long way from the quality of life standards of even Palermo...
 
But surely you see (experience) a dramatically different culture in Turkey as in even the former eastern bloc? It's also pretty fair to say that those former eastern bloc nations were under the thumb, involuntarily, of Russia/USSR. Their histories (broadly speaking) are one of involvement and contribution to Europe, where Turkey has always been an outsider, just arriving in Europe to plunder and then return (by force or self destruction) to their post as a hinge between Christian Europe and Muslim middle east.

Don't forget that even with these most recent arrivals to the EU, though by charter they are members, that the big boys really think of them as the EU. I mean, just go to Bulgaria or Romania for 30 minutes..... it's a long, long way from the quality of life standards of even Palermo...

Yeah but Turkey had Constantinople, founded by a "European", part of Europe till 550 years ago and with a Greek population of millions until within the last hundred years

of course you're correct about the relative poverty of the newer member states - but surely increasing the economic prospects and standard of living of the new member states is the raison d'etre of the EU

i know Spain was almost a second-world country when it joined, and Portugal and Ireland weren't too much better. I reckon about half the roads built in Europe in the last 30 years were paid for by the EU

( and palermo is a special case, consigliere ;) )
 

BNF

Ex-SuperMod
^All good points^

Mostly, I was referring to the fact that hits you when you step off the plane in a foreign country. Ok, I arrive in Scotland, it is different, but clearly Europe - even the USA, clearly 1st word, and dare I say, also largely European rooted.

Step off the plane, or boat, in Ankara or Istanbul and you are immediately a long, long way from home. Even our Greek friends agggelos and pitino would, I imagine, acknowledge that the differences are far greater than them arriving in distant Finland....

I shouldn't have brought up southern Italy - touchè. :sleep::crash:
 
That for me BNF is the beautiful thing about travelling the world, a wonderfully diverse place sometimes good sometimes bad but always worth the experience.
 

georges

Moderator
Staff member
I have to agree with BNF you can't compare the standard of living of the main countries of Europe and the newcomers. It is the Night and Day. It will take time for thse new members of the EU to have the same standard of living than the developped countries. Sometimes you see people from the new members of the EU coming in the developped countries because of a better standard of living. I have never belived in the Europe of 27, it is like USSR but much worse. That Europe is an utopia. Every country sees things in its own way and it won't last very long. USA is strong because all the states are united and all speak the same language.
 

BNF

Ex-SuperMod
I have to agree with BNF you can't compare the standard of living of the main countries of Europe and the newcomers. It is the Night and Day. It will take time for thse new members of the EU to have the same standard of living than the developped countries. Sometimes you see people from the new members of the EU coming in the developped countries because of a better standard of living. I have never belived in the Europe of 27, it is like USSR but much worse. That Europe is an utopia. Every country sees things in its own way and it won't last very long. USA is strong because all the states are united and all speak the same language.

:yesyes:

I have a good friend that has first hand knowledge about WWIII scenarios and preparations and pressures from the EU. There are (ok, were, at least before the new Crusades) many wargames run all based around pressures starting from the Euro and the minimum standards and pressures placed on member nations.

So, if a comparatively rich country like Italy cannot meet EU financial standards year after year.... then where is the wisdom of adding Romania.... and Turkey?? I'm sorry to say that European leaders still haven't "grown a pair" to just say "no" to more expansion. Maybe they will with Turkey.. but, that's not a hard one to say no to.
 
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First of all, there is no place called Constantinople, it's İstanbul. Second you don't know anything about my country, as I don't know anything about yours.
First, have the knowledge, then have the idea...


Then what do you have to say about the threads topic?

Are you outraged by the Nations censorship or do you agree with it?

I'm not here to judge just interested on your opinion on the matter:)
 
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