The Death Penalty

[Friday on my mind]

In the thread we had on my state of NJ moving to ban use of death penalty I posted a link to whats called "the innoncence project".People released from prison and death row who were proven to have not possibly been guilty of the ******* they were convicted of.How many they were too late to save due to being dead already or no DNA evidence available no one will ever know.Many of these people were convicted due to false confessions extracted from them by ***** and or false testimony by witnesses at the direction of corrupt police and prosecutors.The death penalty is too final and since it cannot be reversed to be allowed to be used as long as we have such situations that totally innocents are subjected to it.

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A pun maybe? I am sure it has, here and on many boards. A repeat discussion of this with some new members here is better than the 30th "How many times do you masturbate in a day" or "Who is your top 20/10/5 favorite porn stars?"

:dunno: At least to my way of thinking.

LL

And to my way of thinking also LL.One thing you said though in your post which very much agreed with mine on the judicial system is too flawed to be deciding life and death is that the ***** is worse at the federal level.Actually I think it is much worse at the state level,but that it is not a major difference.
And I think anyone who supports the death penalty must confront the facts which they consistently refuse to do presented in my above post which hi-lights the work of "the innocence project".They need to justify the ******* of the clearly innocent!!!!!

 

[member006]

Originally Posted by Friday on my mi
In the thread we had on my state of NJ moving to ban use of death penalty I posted a link to whats called "the innoncence project".People released from prison and death row who were proven to have not possibly been guilty of the ******* they were convicted of.How many they were too late to save due to being dead already or no DNA evidence available no one will ever know.Many of these people were convicted due to false confessions extracted from them by ***** and or false testimony by witnesses at the direction of corrupt police and prosecutors.The death penalty is too final and since it cannot be reversed to be allowed to be used as long as we have such situations that totally innocents are subjected to it.

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I missed this, sorry. When working I often forget where I left off and move on around the board. Thanks for the great link. Its my point exactly too. I think everyone that takes this issue seriously should look at and seriously read on that site. With an opened mind. It can make you think twice on your feelings on it. :thumbsup:

LL

 

[poggy]

Somebody Takes a little boy with autism. He/she ***** him, ******** beats him also, He/she does so for several days before ******* him by stabbing him to death.
Can you imagine the extremity of the ****** and pain this innocent little boy went through for days before he died? This innocent little boy who brought love and happiness to everyone he touched. How about his *** and ***? ****** or *******? Grandparents and everyone else who loved him? To live with that........It can't be imagined unless you've been through it.
There is ***** evidence, DNA, witnesses that saw the killer with the ***** and surviellence tapes showing the ***** being ********.
Now can anyone tell me with complete conviction and a clear conscience that this person doesn't deserve death?
If so why? How?

I can.

Because death is a easy option.

To put it as mild as I can, make the bastard suffer. I don't mean by just taking there so called freedom away from them. You could always think of a punishment to fit the crime.

I believe in the death penalty, I believe in what God has to say about ******.. "Whoso sheddeth man's *****, by man shall his ***** be shed: for in the image of God made he man." What is this three strikes and you're out garbage, it should be one strike and you're out.

Who's this god person?

Again, if there was some all powerful being out there. Then there would be no crime or suffering anyway!

 

[TriRyche]

Somebody Takes a little boy with autism. He/she ***** him, ******** beats him also, He/she does so for several days before ******* him by stabbing him to death.
Can you imagine the extremity of the ****** and pain this innocent little boy went through for days before he died? This innocent little boy who brought love and happiness to everyone he touched. How about his *** and ***? ****** or *******? Grandparents and everyone else who loved him? To live with that........It can't be imagined unless you've been through it.
There is ***** evidence, DNA, witnesses that saw the killer with the ***** and surviellence tapes showing the ***** being ********.
Now can anyone tell me with complete conviction and a clear conscience that this person doesn't deserve death?
If so why? How?
Please don't say that he will suffer more in prison. Thats lame and actually very hypocritical.
This **** does happen, its the real world. Lets face it and not live with those rose colored glasses like way too many people do today.
Thanks.

Not to many folks wanted to touch this, huh. It's quite easy to stand on a soapbox & say how wrong the death penalty is. However, until it's your loved one who is the victim of ******, you'll never have a clue. I'm very thankful to live in Texas where the death penalty is not frowned upon. At the risk of sounding like a hick, "an eye for an eye". That's what I believe.

 

[17tobyracing]

I agree with having the option of the death penalty, especially now with DNA evidence. I however,, do think the current judicial system is flawed.

 

[Brown Eyes]

The death penalty cannot be imposed. This is not the middle ages and there is too much risk of getting it wrong.

I like to think we live in a mainly civilised world these days (yes, even in Britain!).

Besides, it is far greater punishment to be locked in a cell for life. That's what we need - proper life sentences in prisons that do not have the luxury conditions they seem to have now.

 

[calpoon]

for those that are in favor of the death penalty, how do you feel it should pertain to persons that have psychological disorder(s)/impairment?

I guess the real question is whyat is the basis for criminality? is it the intent/motivation of the person that commits it, or is it just the consequences of the action itself?

to be more precise, if a person ***** another one unwillfully or unintentionally, is it still ******? I think that leads to a slippery moral slope and once again invites the "killer of killers" arguement.

Also just out of curiosity, does anyone think that there are circumstances outside of the judicial system where it is acceptible to **** someone?

A particular true scenario comes to mind: A *** witnesses his ******'s ******. I don't recall if the killer served prison time or not, but ultimately he was not sentanced to death by the courts. Later the *** tracked down this man and ****** him. The *** was then convicted of ****** and sent to prison.

depending on your position, it has the potential to call into question whether this action was justified or not.

 

[thegod]

The only pro argument i can think of

is that its Cheaper to **** them, than to pay guards, and keep them locked up and pay for thier food and water and cleaning and medical expenses for life

 

[georges]

I am all for death penalty especially in cases like the Meat Clever Madman of NY, the Fullerton Movie Slasher or the Butcher of the Poconos. When people commit grizzly *******, they have to die. Serial rapists, serial abductors, violent ghetto gang members, serial shooters, pedophiles and **** king pin ****** people, so I don't see no reason to show them pity. Prison won't make them better nor will it change their mind.
The death penalty in France was abolished in 1981 because of a socialist called Robert Badinter because it was described as inhuman. The result is that laxism and showing forgiveness towards criminals appeared after that.
The penalties given to criminals were 20 years and the people were freed after that good behavior. That kind of things is stupid. Because a criminal remains a criminal.

 

[bodie54]

Because a criminal remains a criminal.

that's clearly not the case
some do, some don't
but like you I support the death penalty

let's see if I can appeal to the environmentalists among the non-death penalty supporters lol

every time Charles Manson takes a breath he releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, thereby contributing to global warming. every time he uses the toilet a few gallons of water are ******.

on top of that I imagine he gets to watch television, movies, eat 3 squares a day (while thousands of law abiding citizens of the world are starving), read, write, and engage in other activities that would be considered pleasurable and/or leisurely, all on the taxpayer's dime. So to what possible purpose is this motherfucker (and his kind) allowed to not only exist, but exist to experience a degree of pleasure, when all he meted out was misery and pain?

 

[calpoon]

every time Charles Manson takes a breath he releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, thereby contributing to global warming. every time he uses the toilet a few gallons of water are ******.

Now that *** of a bitch has gone too far!

 

[GabberMan]

Personally I find it very difficult to be pro-capital punishment. But, I'll try:

FOR:

1. Relieve a criminal of guilt/insanity.

2. Relieve a victim's ****** and friends of knowing that the perpetrator still exists.

3. Completely remove the threat from society.

4. Avenge the crime/revenge against the criminal.

AGAINST:

1. Perpetrators of atrocious acts should be studied to research prevention of similar acts in the future.

2. Vengeance solves nothing.

3. In countries where the death penalty can apply, it doesn't prevent the crimes in the first place.

4. It is morally unjustifiable to take any human life, and maybe be akin to ******.

5. Mistakes are still made today, in some countries more than others.

6. In some countries, the death penalty applies in politically motivated circumstances.

7. In some countries, capital punishment is prevalent among particular social groups/demographics and does not apply so much to others.

Good luck with your project!

 

[bodie54]

Now that *** of a bitch has gone too far!

I presume this was meant to be sarcastic?
If so you missed the point entirely.

 

[pathfinder]

To answer the claims that it costs more to **** someone than to leave them in jail for life... PayPer View executions. Couldn't be any worse to watch than the latest trend in horror movies like Hostel and Saw.


For the argument that some innocent people are wrongly put to death... stop using forms of evidence that aren't substantial enough to warrant a guilty verdict. Unless the system is 100% accurate it shouldn't be used.

I was listening to NPR the other day on this topic and they mentioned that a guy was convicted of ********* a 3 y/o ***** based on bite marks. It was later determined that the bite mark was actually from an ******. I'm not sure what ****** makes a bit mark that looks like a 3 y/o ***** but if there is any doubt as to whether the evidence is irrefutable it shouldn't be used.

Don't change the sentencing... change the prosecution/defense system.

There are so few death sentences carried out that it's not even a deterrent for criminals to worry about. They know they can tie up the court systems for years and it will almost certainly result in the get overturned to a life sentence.

The prison/rehabilitation system is an joke. It's criminal college. for the most part the people in there are there for a damned good reason. And the punishment for the same crimes on the outside seem to be a lot less. People sentenced to life in prison aren't generally concerned with stacking on another life sentence so they can act with impunity when brutaliizing/******* other prisoners.

Human rights people are so concerned with the treatment of terrorists in Gitmo but the conditions/treatment there are not even remotely comparable to those in the US prison system. They're under so much scrutiny that even if they wanted to treat the terrorist prisoner the way they would like to, they can't. Meanwhile people in US prisoners are *****, beaten, stabbed, etc. regularly with little concern. And even with this being fairly common knowledge it's still not a deterrent to criminals.

 

[calpoon]

I presume this was meant to be sarcastic?
If so you missed the point entirely.

In assume, hope, that you were too. I was trying to be funny.

If I wanted to **** people for thier carbon outputs, i'd be going after hummer owners before manson.

OT, I pretty much agree with most everything that you said Pathfinder. The one thing that I don't really agree with is the notion that it's so easy to get an appeal. I haven't really studied it, but in the few books I have read it seems the overwhelming majority that get denied, if they are ever even listened to in the first place. remember none of the courts have to hear your appeals, and if they get shot down in the lower courts, then I think that you can't go up anymore. In particular I remember a story of an inmate who had his death row overturn overturned, sentancing him back to death.

 

[Marlo Manson]

I think it would be effective but I wonder how many innocent people convicted of crimes they had nothing to do with would be put to death!! I think our way of determining innocent or guilty is a mere crapshoot of who's sitting in the jury!! and whats to say a jury member is really a racist or a power junky or somebody that wants attention or is mentally pre-dispositioned in some way nobody really knows about??

the death penalty would certainly make people think more before they let their 1st impulse or moment of fury to actually pause a split second to decide whether this will be the ultimate outcome of their own lives as well!! it would save a bunch of taxpayers money too enact the death penalty instead of having to pay to let a lifer rotting in prison the rest of their lives!! but how many innocent people will die??

eric

 

[Friday on my mind]

I think it would be effective but I wonder how many innocent people convicted of crimes they had nothing to do with would be put to death!! I think our way of determining innocent or guilty is a mere crapshoot of who's sitting in the jury!! and whats to say a jury member is really a racist or a power junky or somebody that wants attention or is mentally pre-dispositioned in some way nobody really knows about??

the death penalty would certainly make people think more before they let their 1st impulse or moment of fury to actually pause a split second to decide whether this will be the ultimate outcome of their own lives as well!! it would save a bunch of taxpayers money too enact the death penalty instead of having to pay to let a lifer rotting in prison the rest of their lives!! but how many innocent people will die??

eric

In an earlier post in this thread I posted a link that shows innocents who have been sentenced to death later cleared using DNA.
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On the deterence arguement that just doesn't stand up.States with the death penalty don't have lower ****** rates,in fact they have higher.I attribute that to if the state doesn't value life they send a signal to the population and they think ******* is sometimes acceptable as well.Plus you need to remember most people don't think they will be caught so penalty is not considered.Also it costs more to execute someone with the legal safeguards that are in place to try to prevent innocents being executed(which the innoncence project shows don't work well enough) then to incarcerate them for life.

 

[Portillo]

Let's keep it simple. You want an argument to support death penalty other than death or retribution. Well, if he's dead, he can't very well commit any crime ever again can he? You deter him from committing the same or any other crime. The death penalty being a deterrent on others has already been discussed previously. Not that I'm in favor of death penalty. I'm not. Who was it who said that the measure of how civilized a society is is the way it treats its criminals?

 

[BlueBalls]

I think a bigger punishment is having to stay locked up for the rest of your life. Once this person is dead they are not going to care about what theyve done, there dead.

 

[ballzano]

Its all nonsense, the prison system today doesn't rehabilitate. It creates hardened criminals who go in for a petty crime, and come out ready to move on to more serious one's, they make contacts in prison, get connected in prison, owe people in prison who protected them. Any innocent person imprisoned by shitty evidence(or over zealous), the cops/prosecution involved should be fired, or prosecuted themselves for wrongful death, if the man was put to death. Because, capital punishment is legal and should be exercised, reguardless if it makes some sad....hehehe