SCOTUS Upholds Obamacare

Jagger69

Three lullabies in an ancient tongue
This was the last major threat to the ACA, there are no major threats on the horizon now for the ACA. The next opportunity for repeal will come in 2017 if there's a Republican in the White House. But even the critics of the ACA have to admit that it's going to be awfully tough to take away insurance from the 36 million people who will be covered by 2017 (According to the CBO)

It won't happen even then since any effort to repeal would have to attain a super-majority in the Senate. Those are the rules they play by so....

Hopefully, upcoming congresses will refine the law as X suggests and we'll eventually have a complete universal health care system like we should instead of the half-measure called Obamacare.
 
The ACA is the first step towards a single payer system. Republican opposition is slowly eroding and the longer the ACA is law the more likely that other changes will meet less resistance. And really, why so much resistance to the basic right of healthcare is beyond me. Not everything should be a profit center.

Stop trying to use wishful thinking as fact..

Opposition is not eroding The public has not been exposed to all the aspects of ACA so there is no foothold in society.

Christ!
 
It won't happen even then since any effort to repeal would have to attain a super-majority in the Senate. Those are the rules they play by so....

Hopefully, upcoming congresses will refine the law as X suggests and we'll eventually have a complete universal health care system like we should instead of the half-measure called Obamacare.


Absolutely incorrect.

A supermajority is not necessary and can be dismantled through reconciliation within the budget.
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Stop trying to use wishful thinking as fact..

Opposition is not eroding The public has not been exposed to all the aspects of ACA so there is no foothold in society.

Christ!

We can't take wishful thinking as fact away, otherwise the entire Republican agenda would disappear like dew in the morning sun.
 
Nice distinction. At any rate, trying to argue the will of the American people after losing the last two national elections is pretty bold.
Not exactly. You won games 5 and 6 of The World Series after being down 3-1. You won impressively but game 7 is next with our backs against the wall. And the umpires have called some things your way.
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Not exactly. You won games 5 and 6 of The World Series after being down 3-1. You won impressively but game 7 is next with our backs against the wall. And the umpires are calling things your way

Ok, if you say so. Demographics are changing, GOP policies are a tough sell.
 
Care to break down those demographics?

Do you honestly believe that illegals are going to impact the vote? Yes demographics are changing, Have you ever examined how the various ethnicities that make up these demographics are voting? They aren't all registering as Democrats.
Not to mention the age demographic which has been shown as not quite as liberal as one is lead to believe, at least not insurmountable.

I still contend that Hillary Clinton cannot and will not energize the base like Obama did. He was a great once in a lifetime candidate. And I can guarantee the Republican base will be more energized than at any time since 1980.
 
Personally, I think the ACA is deeply flawed as written (and now interpreted) but not for the same reasons that most conservatives would.

I'm in the same boat.

In my view it doesn't go far enough. The sane thing to do would have been to have universal single payer health care for everybody. The Affordable Care Act is flawed, but in the democrats defense it's not like the republicans have offered anything remotely close to a workable better alternative, and a lot of the dems would have wanted a universal state health care system if they could have gotten it unlike nearly all republicans when it was passed.

(And no, going back to where millions are uncovered by insurance isn't better or workable.) We got something that was half-assed because the alternative was even a lot worse.
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Care to break down those demographics?

Do you honestly believe that illegals are going to impact the vote? Yes demographics are changing, Have you ever examined how the various ethnicities that make up these demographics are voting? They aren't all registering as Democrats.
Not to mention the age demographic which has been shown as not quite as liberal as one is lead to believe, at least not insurmountable.

I still contend that Hillary Clinton cannot and will not energize the base like Obama did. He was a great once in a lifetime candidate. And I can guarantee the Republican base will be more energized than at any time since 1980.

I don't support Hillary Clinton. And no, I won't be breaking down the demographics. The GOP ran some good candidates in the last two presidential elections, they just happened to be the wrong candidates. I think Mitt Romney could beat Hillary Clinton, but I'm not so sure about any of the current candidates.
 
The Republicans had the unfortunate task of running against Barack Obama. The same guy that yanked the nomination from Hillary Clinton in 2008.

There is not another Democrat that can match his charisma or will turn out the black vote like he did. Will Democrats get their 85-90 percent of the black vote? Of course but Obama was in the 95-97 percent range. The Obama era was one of those points in time that was not going to be overcome. Just as was the Reagan era was. No candidate was going to defeat him either . Now Democrats must run and wage the traditional campaign
 

xfire

New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
The Republicans had the unfortunate task of running against Barack Obama. The same guy that yanked the nomination from Hillary Clinton in 2008.

There is not another Democrat that can match his charisma or will turn out the black vote like he did. Will Democrats get their 85-90 percent of the black vote? Of course but Obama was in the 95-97 percent range. The Obama era was one of those points in time that was not going to be overcome. Just as was the Reagan era was. No candidate was going to defeat him either . Now Democrats must run and wage the traditional campaign

That's fine with me. I think any candidate that believes they're anointed deserves to lose. I'm looking at you, Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, etc. Kind of like Will winning AHOTY, I want to see him protest. Anyway, welcome back you fucking fag*, I hope you're not still sore and that we can move forward in a productive manner. :D

*Fucking Fag is used as a term of endearment and not meant to be taken as truly insulting.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
The ACA is the first step towards a single payer system. Republican opposition is slowly eroding and the longer the ACA is law the more likely that other changes will meet less resistance. And really, why so much resistance to the basic right of healthcare is beyond me. Not everything should be a profit center.

But the reality is, the health care system in the U.S. is largely private. And that private system is built on profit. I have no problem with more people having access to insured medical care. I think that's a good thing. The question and concern is, who is going to pay for it and how? I don't much care for some of of the methods that I've seen so far.

I strongly object to how the cost and coverage for certain types of care has been mandated based purely on political whims. The government has mandated that birth control for females (though not males) must be provided without a copay. These are "convenience" drugs and products, for the most part. But diabetes, high blood pressure and many other chronic conditions are not covered sans copay. Additionally, and seldom spoken about, while it is true that more people will have access to basic medical care, for those who have cancer, there are now fewer top shelf options for treatment: 15 of the top 19 top cancer hospitals in the United States are not part of the exchanges in ObamaCare. And even those on Medicare are now finding that some treatments and screenings, previously available to them, no longer are. One of the doctors who treated my uncle at City of Hope, Dr. Daniel Raz, wrote a very critical article on a government panel's decision to no longer cover early lung cancer screening. According to him, no one on the panel routinely treated lung cancer patients. Additionally, unless something has changed since that 2014 article, City of Hope would not have been an option for my uncle, had he been on an ObamaCare exchange policy. My personal feeling is, in order to save money (keep premiums affordable) and pay for some of these politically motivated, convenience items, those who are facing life threatening, high cost treatments, may be in dire straits. This is not to say that the death panel claims from some on the radical right were correct. There already were de facto "death panels" at every insurance company in the U.S. - such as when my aunt was denied coverage for a bone marrow transplant by BC/BS and she died from cancer. But it is to say that as the cost of care continues to rise in the United States, there will be a necessary rationing of care, because there is going to (have to) be a rationing of available resource$. Who gets what and how much? It seems to be based, at least partially, on who or what you are, and how old you are.

By not including a top cancer center, an insurer can cut costs. It may also shield itself from risk, delivering an implicit message to cancer survivors or people with a strong family history of the disease that they should look elsewhere.

People can object to Rush Limbaugh's choice of words when he criticized [NOBABE]Sandra Fluke[/NOBABE] (now a feminist attorney) several years ago. And though I am no fan of Limbaugh, his logic was completely sound, IMO. Who in their right mind would think that the taxpayer should be forced to subsidize birth control (with no copay) for a woman, with a severe entitlement mentality, attending a $50,000+/year law school, and not do the same for someone with high blood pressure, heart disease or diabetes???!!! The only way this could be logically explained would be by the White Rabbit from Alice in Wonderland, as he read from Jabberwocky. That's just one example of the flawed logic and reasoning within this law. It had so much potential. I truly believe that. But that potential was lost because radical, special interest groups and boot-licking politicians bastardized what could have been a really good attempt to make our health care system better.

But whether you look at the far right or the far left, that appears to be the perverse nation that we live in now. Oh well... :(
 
OK so humor a poor old Scot here with his free at the point of service health system, but can someone please explain why there is a massive outcry over this?

Pardon my ignorance, but is this not a step in the direction of a universal healthy system for America like the NHS is in the UK?

And if it is, why do so many people think this is a bad thing?

(serious question)
 
OK so humor a poor old Scot here with his free at the point of service health system, but can someone please explain why there is a massive outcry over this?

Pardon my ignorance, but is this not a step in the direction of a universal healthy system for America like the NHS is in the UK?

And if it is, why do so many people think this is a bad thing?

(serious question)

Look what universal has done for dental care in your country for starters.

My premiums have doubled

My deductible has damn near tripled

My plan was better before this shit and I got more bang for my buck..

I don't like the government redistributing my wealth for motherfuckers that don't or won't work. Paying for food stamps is one thing. But when you take my premium from 4000 a year to 9200, I tend to get pissed.
 

Rattrap

Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you
OK so humor a poor old Scot here with his free at the point of service health system, but can someone please explain why there is a massive outcry over this?

Pardon my ignorance, but is this not a step in the direction of a universal healthy system for America like the NHS is in the UK?

And if it is, why do so many people think this is a bad thing?

(serious question)
I got a wisdom tooth removed in Manchester for a whopping 16 quid. Back in the States I saw a dentist at all maybe every five years.

To answer your question: an incredible campaign of misinformation that instilled upon far too many US citizens a few notions:
1) The richest country in the world can't afford healthcare
2) A free market solution is the best solution for something that is inherently not free market (in the same way that police and fire departments aren't)

There're more, but you can boil down a lot to these two points. Hmm, no, there's perhaps actually a more valid third:
3) The government is wasteful and untrustworthy

1) seems like a silly argument. 2) seems to think that healthcare costs will go down like the cost of things like toothpastes and TVs, with competition and choice. Like police and fire departments, healthcare in many cases lacks a rather critical piece of that equation: choice. What's 'many cases'? Well, I could've 'shopped around' for a dentist to get my wisdom tooth removed. It wasn't life-threatening or anything. But: heart attack? Car accident? A disease with only one known medication? A needed operation that can only be performed by one place in your general area? Much like if your house catches fire, you have no choices here.

3) on the other hand, is perfectly valid, up until the point that people seem to fail to recognize that their wasteful government is entirely their fault and if they quit electing the same g'damn sort of politicians every time, they could get a government that isn't untrustworthy or wasteful. This isn't that hard: start off by not voting in corporatist-plutocrats (so: anybody with billionaires backing their campaign).
 
There isn't any God damn misinformation as far as myself and many others are concerned. Everything I posted about what this fucked up law is 100 percent factual when it comes to me and others that don't like it.

You want to know where the misinformation started? With Gruber and congress., Obama disseminating lies and propaganda that if you liked your doctor or policy you can keep it. You know how much my premium with dental was in 2010? Just over 4000 annually. Now it is damn near 9300.

Not to mention that ACA would lower premiums by 2500. The fuck out of here with this bullshit.

Am I mad about it? You damn right I am. Enjoy it for what it is right now. But there are other ways to get rid of this crap.
 
OK so humor a poor old Scot here with his free at the point of service health system, but can someone please explain why there is a massive outcry over this?

Pardon my ignorance, but is this not a step in the direction of a universal healthy system for America like the NHS is in the UK?

And if it is, why do so many people think this is a bad thing?

(serious question)

There's a frighteningly large portion of the population here that is disgusted beyond belief that any of their own money might benefit somebody else. These people love to take advantage of all the benefits that everyone else in their society has contributed to, but they'll bitch and whine and make up bullshit statistics for days, as I'm sure you've witnessed here. The ironic part is that these kinds of people love to label anyone else who gets benefit from the communal pool as a "taker".

Then you have the airtight, can't possibly refute it, mother of all arguments against socialized healthcare - "that could never work!" I know that as a citizen of a first world country you probably believe that it works quite well, but you're wrong, you just don't realize it.
 
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