Psychologists, Therapists, Psychiatrists, etc...

[ChefChiTown]

Do you believe that psychologists, therapists, psychiatrists (etc) actually do anything to help people, or is it (ironically) all in people's heads?

Personally, I think that it's all glorified common sense and I don't think that psychologists (etc) actually do anything beneficial, other than listen. So, why is it that people spend hundreds of dollars per hour to sit and talk with somebody? In my opinion, I think it's a huge waste of time and money.

Also, as far as their diagnoses go, I believe that a lot of it is total bullshit. Every single person that walks into a psychologists (etc) office can't walk out without being told that there's something wrong with them. Seriously, every single person, no matter who they are, is told that there is something wrong with them and diagnosed with some sort of problem.

So, do you honestly believe in what they do, or, are you like me, and just think that it's a total moneymaking scam?

 

[alexpnz]

I currently see one after hitting rock bottom and i have to say its the best $ i've ever spent!
I too was cynical about them and figured I could work thru my own problems and anyone who sees one is weak minded.......boy was I wrong!!
Sometimes you just hold things back from friends or family....with a psychologist they are on neutral ground and can give you un-biased and uncensored advice......sometimes the truth hurts too much and friends and family wont go that far! jmo :2 cents:

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Just group-hug, lets "let the healing begin" type shit. No, it's pretty much a bunch of bullshit. The ones who prescribed meds and shit, yeah, they might stop Harris and Klebold type loons, but that's about it. Might be a little bit of benefits. But the touchy feely type shit really is kinda sad.

 

[himperv203]

Do you believe that psychologists, therapists, psychiatrists (etc) actually do anything to help people, or is it (ironically) all in people's heads?

Personally, I think that it's all glorified common sense and I don't think that psychologists (etc) actually do anything beneficial, other than listen. So, why is it that people spend hundreds of dollars per hour to sit and talk with somebody? In my opinion, I think it's a huge waste of time and money.

Also, as far as their diagnoses go, I believe that a lot of it is total bullshit. Every single person that walks into a psychologists (etc) office can't walk out without being told that there's something wrong with them. Seriously, every single person, no matter who they are, is told that there is something wrong with them and diagnosed with some sort of problem.

So, do you honestly believe in what they do, or, are you like me, and just think that it's a total moneymaking scam?

hey it cuts down suicide rates.

 

[gunslingingbird]

I think that it always helps to talk to someone else. Bouncing ideas around and getting feedback is usually a good way of working out problems. If the person is trained in behavioral sciences, he might be more helpful than, say, a bunch of perverts on a porn forum. AHEM! COUGH! Did I just say that? :dunno:

 

[D-rock]

A large part of it is just taking people's behavior and analyzing it in a scientific way. People on average have certain behaviors that most of them follow. Most people that don't follow a normal pattern of behavior usually fall into an abnormal one similar to other people with the same condition. Just like physicians, not all of them are equal and some are definitely better than others, but it's not like the professions themselves are just a bunch of guessing.

Yes, the prices most of them ask for are probably ridiculous I would imagine.

 

[Blink]

Do you believe that psychologists, therapists, psychiatrists (etc) actually do anything to help people, or is it (ironically) all in people's heads?

I can say with 100% certainty that both apply. Psychiatrists can (and often do, since they're medical doctors as well) prescribe medications which may overtly or subtly change a person's behavior. Yet that's all in the person's head, possibly "correcting a chemical imbalance." Likewise, psychologists may help someone to work through issues that the person is unable or unwilling to face alone. A psychologist can even change a person's life for the better simply by dispelling irrational misconceptions and fears about agencies that provide assistance.

In my opinion, I think it's a huge waste of time and money.

It really depends on the people and the situation. For example, a psychologist that cannot help one person (wasted time & money) may be a great help to another (time & money well spent). A family member of mine went to a lot of psychologists over the years, and she had to "shop around" for a long time before she finally found someone who truly improved her life. Fortunately, she had insurance coverage.

Also, as far as their diagnoses go, I believe that a lot of it is total bullshit.

Having independently studied this subject for myself, I very strongly disagree as far as Psychology is concerned.

Every single person that walks into a psychologists (etc) office can't walk out without being told that there's something wrong with them. Seriously, every single person, no matter who they are, is told that there is something wrong with them and diagnosed with some sort of problem.

No one is 100% sane. We all have our own little quirks and flaws. Moreover, social standards pertaining to what is normative and what is not can vary with time, distance, and deviance, per Sociology.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Having independently studied this subject for myself, I very strongly disagree as far as Psychology is concerned.

Let's take a look at one of, if not the most common diagnosis that is given in the United States; DEPRESSION. Look at an example of a questionaire that professional psychologists will use in order to determine if somebody is clinically depressed or not...

1. Little interest or pleasure in doing things

This is common. Not everybody likes doing everything.

2. Feeling down, depressed, or hopeless

This is common. Not everybody is happy all the time.

3. Trouble falling or staying asleep, or sleeping too much

This is common. Nobody gets a perfect night of sleep each and every day. And, some people enjoy sleeping in when they're tired.

4. Feeling tired or having little energy

This is common. Everybody gets tired, leaving them with little energy. In fact, I get tired every single day.

5. Poor appetite or overeating

This is common. Not everybody eats as they should. That doesn't mean they are depressed; they could just have an unhealthy diet.

6. Feeling bad about yourself—or that you are a failure or have let yourself or your family down

This is common. Nobody is perfect and people get down on themselves.

7. Trouble concentrating on things, such as reading the newspaper or watching television

This is common. It's hard to concentrate intently all day long. Sometimes it's healthy to let your mind wander a bit.

8. Moving or speaking so slowly that other people could have noticed. Or the opposite—being so fidgety or restless that you have been moving around a lot more than usual

Eh, this I don't know about. What exactly does "so slowly that other people could have noticed" mean? That could mean just about anything.

9. Thoughts that you would be better off dead, or of hurting yourself in some way

This is common. Nobody is happy all of the time and people start to question themselves.

http://www.depression-screening.org/screeningtest/screeningtest.htm

These are the most generic kind of questions possible. According to these questions, almost every single person who takes this test could have clinical depression.

I answered these questions honestly and this is what I got...

Your screening results are consistent with moderately severe depression.

HAHAHAHAHA, REALLY? So, being a completely normal person qualifies me for "moderately severe depression"...??? No, I don't think so.

Like I said, every single person who walks into a psychologist's office can't walk out without being diagnosed with something. That doesn't mean that something is really wrong with them though. Psychologists use questions that are designed to have answers which can spun around in order to make it look as though you have a problem.

For example...

When I got my DUI a few years ago, I was informed by my lawyer that it would be helpful for me to get an alcohol assessment. So, I scheduled an appointment with a licensed psychologist to take my assessment. This is one of the questions I was asked...

"How many beers or shots of liquor does it take to get you drunk?"

So, I asked a follow up question...

"When you say 'drunk', do you mean buzzed, drunk or completely hammered?"

His response was, and I quote, "That's up to you."

So, no matter what my answer was, he would be able to spin it around to make it look like I have a problem. If I would've said...

"It takes me 8 beers to get drunk" (taking 'drunk' as 'buzzed"'), he could say to himself that I have a problem. 8 beers only gets him buzzed? He is an alcoholic and needs to seek help immediately.

"It takes me 12 beers to get drunk" (taking 'drunk' as 'drunk'), he could say to himself that I drink too much. 12 beers is way too many beers for someone his age to be drinking. His tolerance is too high. He is an alcoholic and needs to be in rehab.

"It takes me 18 beers to get drunk" (taking 'drunk as 'completely hammered'), he could say to himself that I drink too much. 18 beers is way too many beers for anyone to be drinking. He blacks out, which means that he is an alcoholic who has a severe drinking problem. He needs to be in rehab.

No matter what you say to a psychologist, they can spin it around to make you look like you have a problem. That's not medicine...that's sales.

 

[Wainkerr99]

One may walk out of a psychologist's office being diagnosed with something. this would mean he/she had something to talk about. This then fit into a pattern of behaviour.
For example: I might lie awake at night dreaming up quirky threads to post on Freeones. Or maybe I get a flash of inspiration as I wrestle some hefty opponent to the ground. There may be a need for attention, or a desire to engage in intelligent conversation for kicks or whatever reason.
A psychologist might need a new Porsche, or he/she might genuinely care.

You can then decide. Mmmm, there is something wrong with me. Or, You Might think, OK, that cost $350, but it was nice to talk to someone about how I feel.

In society, especially today, on one cares how you feel. They want you to earn money for you. That's it. Your spouse isn't interested. Your colleagues couldn't give a damn. Your dog doesn't speak human that much. Your neighbour wants gossip fodder.
So, who do you go to?
Or, don't you? Are you man enough to never even feel any emotional hurt or burden in the first place? Or are you a real man who just toughs it out.
Good on you! You have just joined the ranks of the real man just like all the other real men. Smoke Lexington. Drink alcohol. Like everyone. We all are the same. Cookie no. 1, cookie no, 2, cookie no. 125 000 000.
Anyone who thinks different is a wuss.

Right.

Oh, my son got shot in Iraq. Oh well. Hey, Joe, pass another beer man.

OK they get paid. But you know, you show you are a real man by expressing your feelings in intelligent conversation with a professional. Once you find the right one. Kind of like finding a good garage mechie. You then are strong enough to withstand criticism from those who think differently, and to see through the argument that no one must care.

I do have my serious doubts about psychiatrists, though. They will offer you a pill, whether you frigging need one or not.

I think there is a time when it helps to isolate what is upsetting you, where you have gone wrong, then be man enough to make it right.

Hey, even Tony Soprano went to therapy. Bada Bing.

 

[Blink]

Okay, I am not mental health professional. That said, here's my take...

Chef, individual factors are important, but you're forgetting to include such considerations as SEVERITY, PERSISTENCE, and TOTAL NUMBER OF SYMPTOMS ("categories"). Getting depressed from time to time is NORMAL; one recovers from the symptoms without external assistance. As far as I understand it, clinical depression is where a person has abnormally high rankings in one or more of those categories and that person's day-to-day functioning is somehow impaired.

PsychologyToday on Depressive Disorders
DSM IV - Major Depressive Episode (Psychiatry)

That said, I do think that Psychiatrists prescribe anti-depressants way too often nowadays. A lot of people are very unhappy, but there are plenty of valid reasons to be so. Taking an anti-depressant makes you "get on with your life" by not caring about or ignoring those reasons, rather than doing something about them. I don't have a high opinion of Psychiatrists as a result, although I suppose there may truly be a form of depression which is completely irrational in nature (i.e. you're down no matter what; you don't have any tangible reasons to be that way).

Psychologists, on the other hand, (should!) try to work through the issues that are getting you down with you. Of course, they can "collaborate with physicians to ensure patients are placed on a treatment plan," but I would hope that the good Psychologists wouldn't do that with people who have valid reasons to be unhappy.

 

[jamrak]

Psychologistis are cheaters, moneymakers and brainfuckers.

Psychiatrists deal with real mental illness.

 

[Facial_King]

There you go again with the "common sense" thing, Chef.

So, everything that Freud, Jung, Genet, Kinsey, etc. ever wrote, all that stuff is just "glorified common sense" then?

Come on.

 

[ChefChiTown]

There you go again with the "common sense" thing, Chef.

So, everything that Freud, Jung, Genet, Kinsey, etc. ever wrote, all that stuff is just "glorified common sense" then?

Come on.

Yes, it is glorified common sense.

You don't have to be a psychologist to know that if someone is sexually abused as a child that they can have a pretty fucked up life. You don't have to be a psychologist to know that people want to fit in with the crowd, to have a sense of belonging. You don't have to be a psychologist to know that people often act out in order to get attention.

If you just sit back and pay attention to life, you'll know just as much as a licensed psychologist does about people and the way their minds work.

It's all common sense, but psychologists make it seem as if it is some sort of knowledge that can only be gained through higher learning. People are under the impression that psychologists are brilliant; that they know things we, as regular people, can not. That's all smoke and mirrors; an illusion. Psychologists are regular people who sit and listen to your problems. Anybody can do that, but...

People who walk into a psychologist's office have already made up their mind that they're about to get some sort of miracle treatment that they couldn't get anywhere else. They think that psychologists have some sort of special knowledge that nobody else can have and that they need to visit a psychologist in order to be cured.

When I had to attend AA meetings as part of my probation for my DUI, I heard this phrase quite a bit...

"AA only works if you want it to work."

Meaning, unless you have surrendered all hope and have exhausted all other options, AA (group therapy) isn't going to help you. You have to want to be there and, in order to want to be there, you have to be desperate; desperate for help, desperate for a cure.

People who are forced into AA (via court) never get help at that point. It isn't until they reach the point in their life where they willingly want to be there that it will start helping them.

Psychology and therapy is no different than religion; it only works if you want it to work.

"Religion is an illusion and it derives its strength from the fact that it falls in with our instinctual desires."

SIGMUND FREUD, New Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis

http://www.notable-quotes.com/f/freud_sigmund.html

FYI - I am well aware that there are psychiatrists that prescribe medicine to their patients in order to help alleviate symptoms which are caused by physical abnormalities in the brain. Sometimes the medicine helps, sometimes it doesn't. I am not denying that there are cases where some sort of help is obtained. But, as a whole, I think it's all just a magic show.

 

[Facial_King]

Yes, it is glorified common sense.

You don't have to be a psychologist to know that if someone is sexually abused as a child that they can have a pretty fucked up life. You don't have to be a psychologist to know that people want to fit in with the crowd, to have a sense of belonging. You don't have to be a psychologist to know that people often act out in order to get attention.

If you just sit back and pay attention to life, you'll know just as much as a licensed psychologist does about people and the way their minds work.

I actually couldn't finish that post - sorry.

Do you think that is what psychologists study, what they do research on? Have you ever read a journal of psychology? (No, I don't mean "Psychology Today"!) It's not like they do research such as "Sexual abuse linked to being "fucked-up"" It gets a lot deeper than that.

So, you can be a barstool counselor to whoever will listen to your advice - maybe they'll even pay you!

:glugglug:

 

[ChefChiTown]

I actually couldn't finish that post - sorry.

Do you think that is what psychologists study, what they do research on? Have you ever read a journal of psychology? (No, I don't mean "Psychology Today"!) It's not like they do research such as "Sexual abuse linked to being "fucked-up"" It gets a lot deeper than that.

So, you can be a barstool counselor to whoever will listen to your advice - maybe they'll even pay you!

:glugglug:

I actually have a subscription to Psychology Today, but that's not what you mean...damnit. :tongue:

I've never read an entire text book on psychology, no. But, while I attended Cleveland State University, I had to take pscyhology courses for part of my prerequistes for my major and graduation. Side note: my initial major was going to be in law, but I ended up going into the culinary arts...for some reason.

Anyway, I have read through text books on psychology. Yes, the research involved goes farther than "YOU'RE CRAZY", but a lot of it, I found to be useless. The study of brain patterns, brain waves, electric signals, etc.

Sure, it's nice to know and it's cool information, but knowing the path of electric signals in somebody's brain isn't going to help them from having suicidal thoughts or get them over their childhood abuse. All you have to do to help those people is talk to them. Connect with them. Reach them.

How do you reach somebody? By talking and by listening. No text book can ever teach you how to do that.

But, hey...maybe I should be a bar stool counselor. It would give me something to do while I play darts.

 

[maanlest]

Based on my personal experience, psychiatrists can definitely help.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

Psychiatrists are a very big help, even if they are only someone to talk to. I've been to a couple psychiatrists, some young and some old, and no matter who they are they are always there to listen, and that eases a lot of the pressure and stress in life, I think.

And, on a unserious note, am I the only one who had trouble picking a choice in the poll? I mean, they do help, but I also want Chef to munch on my chocolate starfish...

 

[Roughneck]

Blink - good post there (#7) in this thread.

Chef: A few thoughts -

* Psychiatrists DO help.

Here's a personal anecdote:
I had a very hard time re-adjusting to the world after I came home from Vietnam. Not only was I physically scared and burned; I was psychologically scarred.

For many years I just drifted - I was homeless. I was broke. I was an alcoholic and I abused drugs and people. I stole. I beat people up and got beat up. I was a public nuisance - to put it mildly. I couldn't sleep - I had horrible nightmares (sometimes I still do).

The fact that I'm able to look back at those years today and talk about it - is testament to the skill, professionalism and dedication of a great psychiatrist (who has since passed on). For as long as I live, I'll never forget this lady.

* Psychiatrists DO help. The greatest skill any psychiatrist possesses is the ability to 'clinically dissociate from the patient while observing and analyzing from the scientific standpoint'. Contrary to popular belief - popping pills don't make you happy. The ultimate goal of therapy is behavior modification. Medication helps but only in the short term (and they mostly only manage symptoms).

E.g.: Someone is diagnosed with depression. Medication might treat the symptoms of depression but the real goal is to find/treat what is causing the depression. The ideal being: give pt. something to help cope with symptoms right now (medication) so that the cause of the current problem (depression) can be revealed, worked on and ultimately dealt with... upon which medication might be adjusted, tapered or discontinued.

As a medical professional (not psychiatry), I see parallels in my own practice. While a part of me recognizes that every person is an individual and is someone's parent/sibling/child etc. ... the clinical part of me disassociates this from the medical problem on hand. If I couldn't do this, I'd never be able to administer 360joule shocks to restart the heart of 96 year old great-grandfathers or shove my hand into the chest of a 2 year old and pump her heart with my own hands to try to save her life...

* "Nobody's perfect". The longer I live on this Earth and the more I interact with people, the more I come to realizing how true this ancient quip truly is. We are all amongst the 'walking wounded' - some of us just that much more so than others.

But the difference, dear Chef - is how each one of us deals with it. Some of us are able to cope with our stress, with our feelings, with our maladies and madness - and lead a somewhat productive, enriching life. But for some of us, our thoughts and behaviors end up affecting our quality of life - we are unable to be good spouses, to be good parents, to be good co-workers etc.

There is an ancient axiom in medicine - "Treat the patient, not the data". Just because someone 'qualifies' for the criteria for 'depression' - doesn't necessarily make them so (and vice-versa). Said person could have good coping skills, supportive friends/family or otherwise lead a relatively unaffected life. It's like having Hepatitis C - yes they have a disease but are able to function despite it.

To be continued...

 

[Galactic]

Psychologists and therapists.......probably not. Psychiatrists, however, actually may be worth a damn as they are the ones to prescribe the drugs to people who really do have mental disorders.

 

[Dean Wormer]

Just remember one thing everybody:

Tom Cruise knows the history of psychiatry.

That's all anybody needs to know.:rofl: