NHL '10/'11 Thread.

[rodfarva]

I don't know how I could forget Lemieux. He actually has the greatest statistic (IMO) in the league's history: averaged over 2 points a game over the course of his career. Truly he might have been better than anyone to play the game. I did like the early 90s years with Federov, Bure , Jagr and Selanne and the numbers they were puting up. And I agree, Lindros could've been one of the greats, but his size might have worked against him. I know I would've went out and tried to **** him just because of his size. I always hated big players, and I know a lot of other guys that head hunted big goons.

Sorry to have to correct you, but everyone seems to forget that Lemieux came out of retirement and, subsequently, his career points per game average went down to 1.883, now second to Gretzky's 1.921. Seeing as how that was the only record that Lemieux ever owned and Gretzky holds over 60 NHL records and all the most important ones, I think it's ridiculous to claim that anyone besides Gretzky was the greatest to ever play the game. A lot of people like to do so, but I think they all must just be fooling themselves or trying to be different.

However, Lemieux was, in my opinion, the only player to ever play who deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky and the only player who was ever truly on Gretzky's level.

And, not to be a jerk, but to say that: "He [Lemieux] actually has the greatest statistic (IMO) in the league's history" makes no sense because statistics are empirical and factual. To claim that, in your opinion, Lemieux was the greatest of all-time is justifiable (though incorrect), because that's an opinion. Statistics, like I said (or typed), are factual, they're not based on opinion. And the facts are quite clear.

 

[Mauser98k]

a week before Christmas the South East standings are:

1. Atlanta (41 points)
2. Tampa Bay (40 points)
3. Washington (40 points)

who saw that one coming?

 

[rodfarva]

a week before Christmas the South East standings are:

1. Atlanta (41 points)
2. Tampa Bay (40 points)
3. Washington (40 points)

who saw that one coming?

See what happens to the Capitals when their division doesn't consist of four of the worst teams in the league? I've always known that the Capitals success has been in no small part a product of their weak division.

 

[GibbsGrad2002]

a week before Christmas the South East standings are:

1. Atlanta (41 points)
2. Tampa Bay (40 points)
3. Washington (40 points)

who saw that one coming?

It is nice not to see the Caps on top of the division

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

Sorry to have to correct you, but everyone seems to forget that Lemieux came out of retirement and, subsequently, his career points per game average went down to 1.883, now second to Gretzky's 1.921. Seeing as how that was the only record that Lemieux ever owned and Gretzky holds over 60 NHL records and all the most important ones, I think it's ridiculous to claim that anyone besides Gretzky was the greatest to ever play the game. A lot of people like to do so, but I think they all must just be fooling themselves or trying to be different.

However, Lemieux was, in my opinion, the only player to ever play who deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky and the only player who was ever truly on Gretzky's level.

And, not to be a jerk, but to say that: "He [Lemieux] actually has the greatest statistic (IMO) in the league's history" makes no sense because statistics are empirical and factual. To claim that, in your opinion, Lemieux was the greatest of all-time is justifiable (though incorrect), because that's an opinion. Statistics, like I said (or typed), are factual, they're not based on opinion. And the facts are quite clear.

Yep. you're right. I was thinking pre-Hodgkin's disease. We can argue who had a better supporting cast (Gretz or Mario), but I think in the end they are just the two greatest ever. I'd venture to say though that Gretz had better players surrounding him in Edmonton especially. :2 cents:

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

a week before Christmas the South East standings are:

1. Atlanta (41 points)
2. Tampa Bay (40 points)
3. Washington (40 points)

who saw that one coming?

That's crazy. I like the Hawks, but why they parted with my boy Byfuglien is beyond me. Fucking stupid. He's having a magnificent year at D with the shitty ass Thrashers. I hope some day he comes home to play for his home team, the Wild. :drool2:

 

[Mauser98k]

That's crazy. I like the Hawks, but why they parted with my boy Byfuglien is beyond me. Fucking stupid. He's having a magnificent year at D with the shitty ass Thrashers. I hope some day he comes home to play for his home team, the Wild. :drool2:

yeah, i'll be thrilled if/when Big Buff leaves Atlanta too

 

[icerfan]

Yep. you're right. I was thinking pre-Hodgkin's disease. We can argue who had a better supporting cast (Gretz or Mario), but I think in the end they are just the two greatest ever. I'd venture to say though that Gretz had better players surrounding him in Edmonton especially. :2 cents:

I'm a big Penguins homer, but I still agree with the Hockey News top 50 that had the top four Gretzky, Orr, Howe, then Mario. :2 cents:

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

Washington's back on top for now. It makes me laugh how Pittsburgh goes on a 12 game winning streak while Washington loses eight in a row, yet Pittsburgh only has three more points.

 

[Mauser98k]

the Tampa Bay Lightning have called up G Cedric Desjardins from Norfolk.

this has been planned for a while to see how he acclimates to practice at the NHL level. although Mike Smith, who was scheduled to start tonight, seems to have injured his knee in practice this morning so Desjardins may be on the roster tonight...

 

[Mauser98k]

the Tampa Bay Lightning have called up G Cedric Desjardins from Norfolk.

this has been planned for a while to see how he acclimates to practice at the NHL level. although Mike Smith, who was scheduled to start tonight, seems to have injured his knee in practice this morning so Desjardins may be on the roster tonight...

UPDATE: Yzerman says Smith "tweaked his knee" and won't play tonight.

Desjardins looks like he'll back up Ellis

 

[rodfarva]

Yep. you're right. I was thinking pre-Hodgkin's disease. We can argue who had a better supporting cast (Gretz or Mario), but I think in the end they are just the two greatest ever. I'd venture to say though that Gretz had better players surrounding him in Edmonton especially. :2 cents:

Well said, I think there's no question they're the two greatest of all-time. You could definitely argue that Gretzky benefitted from the amazing talent he had around him in Edmonton. After all, that's where he recorded all his major single-season records, where he recorded all four of his 200-point seasons, and won all four of his Stanley Cups.

But I would have to say that he made all those players around him better also, not that they weren't great players to begin with, but he just made them that much better. Especially, his key linemates, Jari Kurri being the most important among them. When you look at his career numbers, you see that he dropped off significantly after he and Gretzky were separated (they were re-united in LA, but didn't play on a line together there). Also, Esa Tikanen and Glenn Anderson saw their production drop off after being separated from Gretzky. People forget, too, that he and Messier rarely ever played on the same line together; Messier centred the second line.

And Lemieux was a part of one of the greatest lines of all-time with Ron Francis and Jaromír Jágr. Ron Francis' numbers did dip after being separated from Lemieux, but he was on old man by then and his numbers in Hartford when he was younger are comparable to the numbers he had with Lemieux. As for Jágr, his numbers definitely didn't drop off at any point.

So, I would say that it could be argued either way. Personally, I don't think Gretzky ever played with guys as talented as Francis or Jágr, and I also think that Gretzky definitely made players around him better to a much greater extent than Lemieux ever did. :2 cents:

 

[Mauser98k]

Desjardins may very well get to play. Smith is apparently out for 2 weeks with a "***** knee injury"

Smitty can't catch a break. every time he starts playing well he gets hurt. it's happened 3 years in a row.

 

[Jon S.]

Nice way for my Pens to end a two game skid......Put the "beat down" on the 'Yotes 6-1!!! And if that wasn't enough.....The Flyers got thumped by the Panthers 5-0 too!!! The 'Yotes had two 5 on 3 advantages....and STILL couldn't score!!! Only goal they got was a cheesy one that went off a body....then off Fleury's mask & in the net....ha ha ha! Sid extended his scoring streak to 21 games (only 30 more to catch Gretzky's record....ha ha ha!) with a goal and two assists & Geno (Malkin) remains on FIRE since he returned 3 games ago....had 2 goals and 1 assist again tonight (5 goals in last 3 games)!!! Did anyone see Engelland "KO" Pyatt??? Helluva fight.....even better ending!!! Engelland and Pyatt were going at it.....then Engelland landed one helluva punch & "down goes Pyatt....down goes Pyatt" ha ha ha!!! I don't think Pyatt knew where he was afterward.....even went to the locker room....ha ha ha!!! And some people want to take fighting out of hockey??? The Hell I say!!!

Kinda sad Fleury didn't get the shut out.....but Hell.....I'll take a 6-1 beat down any night!!!

Now if we can beat the Panthers Wednesday...followed by a BEAT DOWN of the Caps Thursday night......& my Christmas will be complete!!!

 

[Mauser98k]

Lightning 5, Hurricanes 1

Stamkos nets his 100th career goal becoming the 6th youngest player in history to do so

the past few games the Lightning goalies have been VERY good. i guess the Nabokov talk got into their heads.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

Kinda sad Fleury didn't get the shut out.....but Hell.....I'll take a 6-1 beat down any night!!!

If Bryz was playing instead of the backup you wouldn't be gloating like this. :nono:

 

[Jon S.]

Well said, I think there's no question they're the two greatest of all-time. You could definitely argue that Gretzky benefitted from the amazing talent he had around him in Edmonton. After all, that's where he recorded all his major single-season records, where he recorded all four of his 200-point seasons, and won all four of his Stanley Cups.

But I would have to say that he made all those players around him better also, not that they weren't great players to begin with, but he just made them that much better. Especially, his key linemates, Jari Kurri being the most important among them. When you look at his career numbers, you see that he dropped off significantly after he and Gretzky were separated (they were re-united in LA, but didn't play on a line together there). Also, Esa Tikanen and Glenn Anderson saw their production drop off after being separated from Gretzky. People forget, too, that he and Messier rarely ever played on the same line together; Messier centred the second line.

And Lemieux was a part of one of the greatest lines of all-time with Ron Francis and Jaromír Jágr. Ron Francis' numbers did dip after being separated from Lemieux, but he was on old man by then and his numbers in Hartford when he was younger are comparable to the numbers he had with Lemieux. As for Jágr, his numbers definitely didn't drop off at any point.

So, I would say that it could be argued either way. Personally, I don't think Gretzky ever played with guys as talented as Francis or Jágr, and I also think that Gretzky definitely made players around him better to a much greater extent than Lemieux ever did. :2 cents:

I think that some people would argue (at least a constant argument that I have heard anyway) that Gretzky had something that Mario basically lacked....and that was protection!!! Wayne Gretzky had guys like Marty McSorley to protect him that saw that NOBODY "got physical" with Gretzky.....making his life on the ice quite a bit easier than Mario had it! Mario had nobody to really serve as an enforcer (like McSorely) for him & he did get "roughed up" quite a bit more than Gretzky (basically not at all) did! Clearly having an enforcer/protector would have a positive impact on Gretzky's production.....not to mention his longevity! Gretzky was one helluva player....Mario too....but give Mario an enforcer/protector to go along with the offensive stars that Mario played with & take away the whole Hodgkin's thing & who knows what further greatness Mario could have achieved? Even without the Hodgkin's Disease, the constant beating Mario took from people who were constantly getting physical with him (because they knew they had nothing to really fear from any of the Pens) took it's toll on him!!!:2 cents:

 

[Jon S.]

If Bryz was playing instead of the backup you wouldn't be gloating like this. :nono:

To be honest, after seeing the Pens give up 4 goals in about 7 minutes against the Rangers the other night, I didn't exactly feel safe, though it was 5-0 after 2 Periods. But, the Coyotes didn't really seem to show up tonight......and basically gave up when the game began to get out of hand. After 16 shots on goal in the 1st, the Coyotes only mustered 11 shots on goal the last 2 periods combined (5 and 6 respectively). Now LaBarbera wasn't exactly solid in net, but his teammates basically left him out to dry on more than one occasion....that goal by Malkin on Crosby's feed late in the 1st (made it 2-0) comes to mind. Later in the game, there were times that it looked like the 'Yotes were basically literally standing around on the ice. It wasn't exactly a great game.....I'm only happy to see my Pens turn things around following a two game skid!

However, the team I want to see my Pens put a "beat down" on is Ovie and the Caps Thursday night!!!

 

[Mauser98k]

Tampa's Brett Clark got hit, umm, down low in this game today.

Coach Guy Boucher on Brett Clark: "He got hit where it hurts . . . but they counted and he still has two.'' after Clark blocked shot in 3rd period

 

[Jon S.]

DAMN!!!

Man....what to do!!! What to do!!!

Just realized that my Steelers play the Panthers and my Penguins play the Capitals Thursday night. Which to watch!!! The Steelers shouldn't have a tough time with the Panthers....and they're already in the playoffs....but I never miss a game. The Pens and Caps SHOULD be a great game though. I guess I'll just have to watch the Steelers on TV & a Pens-Caps stream on my computer....or vice-versa...ha ha ha!