NFL '10/'11 Season Thread.

So I finally move Chicago over to the 'contender' side of the ledger, and this is what they do. 7 points against one of the NFL's worst defenses?? This only makes it more obvious the AFC is superior. There's no way the Colts and Chargers are only 7-6 in the NFC.

Disappointing loss for the Raiders. The defense fell apart in the 2nd half. But we still right in it, we just need KC to lose 1 of their next 2, SD to lose 1 of their last 3, and win out.

Lol the Cardinals are still alive in the NFC West.
 
So I finally move Chicago over to the 'contender' side of the ledger, and this is what they do. 7 points against one of the NFL's worst defenses?? This only makes it more obvious the AFC is superior. There's no way the Colts and Chargers are only 7-6 in the NFC.

Disappointing loss for the Raiders. The defense fell apart in the 2nd half. But we still right in it, we just need KC to lose 1 of their next 2, SD to lose 1 of their last 3, and win out.

Lol the Cardinals are still alive in the NFC West.

The Bears just ran into the NFL's best offense. The Patriots are a damn good team. Just because the Bears lost to them doesn't mean they now all of a sudden are shit, give the Pats some respect. Are you saying the same thing about the Jets?
 
The Bears just ran into the NFL's best offense. The Patriots are a damn good team. Just because the Bears lost to them doesn't mean they now all of a sudden are shit, give the Pats some respect. Are you saying the same thing about the Jets?

There's a difference between shit and title contender. And it wasn't Tom Brady that held the Bears to 7 points. And btw the Jets lost in Foxboro, not at home in 'Chicago Bears' type weather. Not that the Jets are serious contenders either.
 
First, I'm not going to go into the stats you cite as I've found on a couple of occasions you apparently have a willingness to say and even quote things that upon looking into them there has been either no evidence of or what was actually said or concluded was grossly misrepresented by you, etc.

Fine. Do your own fucking homework.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/

Because Lord knows, if there's one thing I do, it's try to contort numbers that are readily available to even the most ineffably stupid people.


I guess the first questions would be in response to what the Dolphins have done at slot since the trade would be, how many different slot receivers have the Patriots used and what has he done and do you honestly believe they wouldn't take Welker back in their stead in a minute?

:facepalm:

I never made the case they wouldn't take him back. Jesus Christ, THAT'S what you got out of that? What fucking difference does it make what production the Pats got from the rest of the slot receivers? If anything, that'd only devalue what Welker has done.

Like I said, I'm not even going to mis-mash through the numbers you cite because who knows how you arrived at them based on some of what I've found looking into other things you've asserted in the past.

Pro-Football Reference.com is your friend too, but beware you might run into those scary things called numbers that you seem to have an aversion to. The second listed receiver for each team is usually their designated slot guy. But go ahead, bash them as inaccurate because -OH NOES- they're numbers! :rolleyes:

But generally if a player averages 8 catches against one team, that's damned good. Never mind the assertion the Dolphins have used 8 different players (by some combination you've calculated) to exceed the production of 1.

Especially when you're completely blind to any sort of numerical value. 8 catches for 12 yards? Jackpot! :facepalm:

Why worry about getting actual value for someone when you could pay him 5 times more!

I honestly can't even reconcile your position on the Pats trading a 2nd + picks for Welker. Your position on that is ...well, never mind that. But but :1orglaugh just in the simplest of terms...wouldn't a team giving up 2nd rd. pick alone expect what they would be getting to have the talent potential of a 2nd round pick?? EVEN IF you just drafted a player in the 2nd rd. youre not also giving up another pick to get him.:rolleyes::1orglaugh I seriously have no words for your analysis on that.:1orglaugh

:surprise: It literally takes the intellectual prowess of a 3rd grader to understand the logic. Team A has two first round draft picks, and a pick per round after that. Team B has a receiver that is average to above average at his position, however is mostly used as a kick and punt returner. Team A, realizing that the flame-out rate of second rounders is higher than that of first rounders, trades for said receiver with a second round pick made expendable by the additional first rounder, and a 7th round pick, which in the NFL is tantamount to a cash exchange, or a PTBNL. By simple logic, that would mean that Welker would only have to match a 3rd round pick to be worth any salt, which at the wide receiver position, means he'd have to basically be the equivalent of you or I on the field.

It's comically flawed that you see draft picks of equal, and high level value, which is just about the exact opposite of what reality entails. After about round 2, it's all pretty much a wash.


BTW, no personnel guy (HC/GM) is going to give up a 2nd rd. pick (let alone another pick with it) for a player not worth AT LEAST that value no matter how many first rd. picks they have. They don't characterize their value in a rd. decreasing just because they have a better position in another round.

UNLESS OF COURSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING FIRST ROUND PICK TO REPLACE IT.


A GM/Coach could have 5 first round picks in a draft and the only way that would affect their view on their second rd. pick worthy of being given away is if they believed there were only 5 players worth taking in the entire draft.:cool:

Besides, the Pats also had to compete with the Vikings to get Welker as well...this should end the debate....

I never once claimed a lack of competition. I said he was undervalued, and the Patriots had expendable draft picks. I don't understand why that's so difficult for you to grasp.



If you think it stupid to acquire an asset of your competition then you either live in a world different from the rest of us or don't know enough about how things really work

No, it's still stupid. Simply put, the idea that Belichick works with is to take players that are undervalued on the market, and plug them into a system that essentially produces greater results with their particular strengths. Building a team to take players away from a competitor is how albatross players like Nate Clements, and Dana Stubblefield happen.


as the practice is attempted an uncountable amount of times per day. Obviously it doesn't always work as the competition usually doubles down to keep their asset.

Obviously. I mean, just look at how many teams are clamoring to trade for Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, specifically so that the Colts and Saints respectively can't benefit from him. Fuck what they could bring to the team, it's all about taking players from other teams that could actually make them good, (and how convenient that the other teams just let them walk away!) :rolleyes:
 
so the PACK lay a serious egg. and their next game is the Red hot Patriots. i thinking the PACK will miss the playoffs

the Redskins need a new damm Kicker. the O-Line performed better yesterday than any other time this season.

red001
 
so somewhere in this thread i picked 4 teams i wouldnt mind if they made it to the playoffs the bears and packers :facepalm: enough said
and for the afc was jets and chargers but after what i seen from the jets coach they lost me as a fan fire his ass . atleast the chargers won now im rooting for the ravens and chargers out of the afc
 
so somewhere in this thread i picked 4 teams i wouldnt mind if they made it to the playoffs the bears and packers :facepalm: enough said
and for the afc was jets and chargers but after what i seen from the jets coach they lost me as a fan fire his ass . atleast the chargers won now im rooting for the ravens and chargers out of the afc

The Bears clinch the NFC North next week with a win at Minnesota and a GB loss to New England. All my Bears have to do is just win and they're the champs.
 

Bree Olson

Verified Babe
Official Checked Star Member
I am super excited that I started Desean Jackson this week! :)

I'm up 111 to 54, but he still has Matt Schaub, Kevin Boss and the Giants D to play....I think I should be okay.
 

Ike Stain

Approved Content Owner
Approved Content Owner
7 points against one of the NFL's worst defenses??

I guess this reinforces the fact that statistics are only relevant for fantasy football.

Patriots defense looking pretty good to me.
 
"Undervalued"? Not "enamored".....Why the fuck pray-tell did they sign the guy to an $18m, 5 year contract with another $9m in incentives then?? Shouldn't I just stop here?:facepalm:

Fine. Do your own fucking homework.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/

Because Lord knows, if there's one thing I do, it's try to contort numbers that are readily available to even the most ineffably stupid people.
^^
Yeah, you do.:dunno:

Footballoutsiders.com??? (I guess the domain footballforgeeks.com was taken already.) WHO THE FUCK relies on some statfuckinggeek.com site to break down a game like football into some mis-mash of minutia??? Can a site like that ever tell you how a player could not even end up with a single stat but still have a profound affect on the stats of their team mates? I should have known. You follow a group of stat geeks who when everyone inside football said the Pats didn't make the playoffs because they lacked a consistent running game...these geeks set out to disprove creating uber minutia and stats.:facepalm:

From what I've seen on FOs you don't just contort numbers...you contort anything then try to make it sound credible.:dunno:

I thought you were a stat geek now I know it. You should have just disclaimed and we could have saved the tap dance.:cool:
I never made the case they wouldn't take him back. Jesus Christ, THAT'S what you got out of that? What fucking difference does it make what production the Pats got from the rest of the slot receivers? If anything, that'd only devalue what Welker has done.
^^I understood perfectly what you were trying to say. But is THAT what you got out of what I said???? I'm clearly talking above your head.:facepalm: Boy genius, the point I was alluding to was the starting slot for the Dolphins was Welker, he is now the starting slot for the Pats..what has Welker's replacement(s) (STARTERs) done at the Dolphins as compared to what Welker is doing STARTING for the Patriots? You said 8 players....:confused: Who's talking about every swinging dick they've rotated in or lined up at the slot??

Don't bother trying to answer I looked it up myself. "Lord knows," what kind of mumbo jumbo you'll contrive to try and prop up a flimsy point.

Dolphins since since Welker; '07, '08, '09. Welker since the Dolphins; Stats

Those stats don't remotely bear out the Dolphins doing better at slot without Welker especially considering what Welker's done since. But why even compare? The statistical comparison are almost irrelevant when you consider the circumstances. Welker plays for a better team, played along side a better WR, catches passes from 1 QB who's better than all the QBs Miami has had this entire decade combined and one of the all time best head coaches. What the fuck can statistical comparisons and raw numbers tell you under those circumstances???:cool:

You tried to make the case or suggest they were doing better without him because of some conflated, glommed up stats for their receivers you've retreated to. That's the problem with you and stats...what other idiot would try to make the case the Dolphins have been better off without Welker?? That's why the shit can (and often times is) "anecdotally misleading" (You know, how when the reality is different from what some evidence or statistic suggests?:horse:)
Pro-Football Reference.com is your friend too, but beware you might run into those scary things called numbers that you seem to have an aversion to. The second listed receiver for each team is usually their designated slot guy. But go ahead, bash them as inaccurate because -OH NOES- they're numbers! :rolleyes:
:cool: Lombardi, unless they are lining the players on some list based on amount of receptions, a slot would be listed second because it's the "Y" position on the field in X, Y, Z receiver formations.

I never bash numbers as inaccurate unless they are. But most times numbers are what they are, not determinative. And as far as sports are concerned...usually used by geeks to buttress some flimsy point of view or win some stupid bet.

If the game was played with a pencil, paper and a bunch of numbers the Chargers would have been undefeated in the first 7 games instead of 2 and 5.:2 cents:

Especially when you're completely blind to any sort of numerical value. 8 catches for 12 yards? Jackpot! :facepalm:
And that would be absolutely correct if behind that 12 was a number 4 as in 4 2 yard TDs or 3rd down conversions in the 4th quarter when you're trying to ice the game. AGAIN, NUMBERS DON'T ALWAYS CONVEY WHAT HAPPENS SITUATIONALLY. That's why they're for geeks.
:surprise: It literally takes the intellectual prowess of a 3rd grader to understand the logic. Team A has two first round draft picks, and a pick per round after that. Team B has a receiver that is average to above average at his position, however is mostly used as a kick and punt returner. Team A, realizing that the flame-out rate of second rounders is higher than that of first rounders, trades for said receiver with a second round pick made expendable by the additional first rounder, and a 7th round pick, which in the NFL is tantamount to a cash exchange, or a PTBNL. By simple logic, that would mean that Welker would only have to match a 3rd round pick to be worth any salt, which at the wide receiver position, means he'd have to basically be the equivalent of you or I on the field.

It's comically flawed that you see draft picks of equal, and high level value, which is just about the exact opposite of what reality entails. After about round 2, it's all pretty much a wash.

UNLESS OF COURSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING FIRST ROUND PICK TO REPLACE IT.

I never once claimed a lack of competition. I said he was undervalued, and the Patriots had expendable draft picks. I don't understand why that's so difficult for you to grasp.
No, what you claimed was Belichick wasn't 'enamored' with him nor did he have consideration for Welker becoming a 'star'. I don't know what definition you're going by or what your perspective on the word is but clearly Belichick went after Welker specifically, competed for him and ultimately trumped the competition by meeting Welker's demands over another team's negotiations and paid a guy Miami offered $1.3m per more than 3 times that. If that's not 'enamored' I wonder what he'd do for a player he was 'enamored with.. Since he only goes after 'undervalued' player...Oh, I forgot...he did go after Randy Moss and asked his 3 time SB winning QB to restructure his contract to fit Moss under the cap. So much for that 'undervalued' bullshit.:rolleyes:


No, it's still stupid. Simply put, the idea that Belichick works with is to take players that are undervalued on the market, and plug them into a system that essentially produces greater results with their particular strengths. Building a team to take players away from a competitor is how albatross players like Nate Clements, and Dana Stubblefield happen.

Obviously. I mean, just look at how many teams are clamoring to trade for Peyton Manning and Drew Brees, specifically so that the Colts and Saints respectively can't benefit from him. Fuck what they could bring to the team, it's all about taking players from other teams that could actually make them good, (and how convenient that the other teams just let them walk away!) :rolleyes:

Dude you're a stat nerd plain and simple...I don't care how loudly you're still futilely to reason a circumstance that more dynamic than just numbers. Get over yourself.

"Undervalued"??? "Expendable draft pick" are you fucking high??

His value was what it was as a first year starter with 67 receptions. "Expendable"? The Patriots gave up what they needed to in order to get him which was their 2nd rd. pick along with a 7th.

The only thing that makes a draft position 'expendable' if you want to call it that is when a team like the Patriots doesn't have many needs. That's one of the reasons they traded their other 1st rd. pick for SF's 1st in 2008. For their 3 picks in the first 2 rds. they ended up with B Meriweather and Wes Welker.
 
I guess this reinforces the fact that statistics are only relevant for fantasy football.

Patriots defense looking pretty good to me.

I think the Bears were unprepared for the Pats. The Pats came out passing the ball and I think the Bears thought they would go heavy on the run since they were playing in the middle of a snowstorm. The Patriots are just too good.
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
Okay, so in your esteemed opinion what are my chances of winning tonight in fantasy football (PPR league)?

I'm currently down 13 points with Joe Flacco, Derrick Mason, and Kevin Boss left to go. My opponent has Sidney Rice.
 

Ike Stain

Approved Content Owner
Approved Content Owner
I think the Bears were unprepared for the Pats. The Pats came out passing the ball and I think the Bears thought they would go heavy on the run since they were playing in the middle of a snowstorm. The Patriots are just too good.

Absolutely. I think the key factor, last night especially, was coaching. The Bears definitely seemed completely unprepared last night, not just for the Pats but for the weather. All those turnovers have got to an indication of some kind of lapse in their team discipline or practice methodology. (I don't know, but I'm venturing a guess.)
 

Bree Olson

Verified Babe
Official Checked Star Member
Okay, so in your esteemed opinion what are my chances of winning tonight in fantasy football (PPR league)?

I'm currently down 13 points with Joe Flacco, Derrick Mason, and Kevin Boss left to go. My opponent has Sidney Rice.

I think you have a good chance of pulling it off...especially since Baltimore is playing Houston. Just depends on if Flacco feels like going to Boldin or Mason more.

But then again..I could just be talking outta my ass. :D
 

alexpnz

Lord Dipstick
The streak is over....:hatsoff: #4
 
"Undervalued"? Not "enamored".....Why the fuck pray-tell did they sign the guy to an $18m, 5 year contract with another $9m in incentives then?? Shouldn't I just stop here?:facepalm:


^^
Yeah, you do.:dunno:

Footballoutsiders.com??? (I guess the domain footballforgeeks.com was taken already.) WHO THE FUCK relies on some statfuckinggeek.com site to break down a game like football into some mis-mash of minutia??? Can a site like that ever tell you how a player could not even end up with a single stat but still have a profound affect on the stats of their team mates? I should have known. You follow a group of stat geeks who when everyone inside football said the Pats didn't make the playoffs because they lacked a consistent running game...these geeks set out to disprove creating uber minutia and stats.:facepalm:

From what I've seen on FOs you don't just contort numbers...you contort anything then try to make it sound credible.:dunno:

I thought you were a stat geek now I know it. You should have just disclaimed and we could have saved the tap dance.:cool:

^^I understood perfectly what you were trying to say. But is THAT what you got out of what I said???? I'm clearly talking above your head.:facepalm: Boy genius, the point I was alluding to was the starting slot for the Dolphins was Welker, he is now the starting slot for the Pats..what has Welker's replacement(s) (STARTERs) done at the Dolphins as compared to what Welker is doing STARTING for the Patriots? You said 8 players....:confused: Who's talking about every swinging dick they've rotated in or lined up at the slot??

Don't bother trying to answer I looked it up myself. "Lord knows," what kind of mumbo jumbo you'll contrive to try and prop up a flimsy point.

Dolphins since since Welker; '07, '08, '09. Welker since the Dolphins; Stats

Those stats don't remotely bear out the Dolphins doing better at slot without Welker especially considering what Welker's done since. But why even compare? The statistical comparison are almost irrelevant when you consider the circumstances. Welker plays for a better team, played along side a better WR, catches passes from 1 QB who's better than all the QBs Miami has had this entire decade combined and one of the all time best head coaches. What the fuck can statistical comparisons and raw numbers tell you under those circumstances???:cool:

You tried to make the case or suggest they were doing better without him because of some conflated, glommed up stats for their receivers you've retreated to. That's the problem with you and stats...what other idiot would try to make the case the Dolphins have been better off without Welker?? That's why the shit can (and often times is) "anecdotally misleading" (You know, how when the reality is different from what some evidence or statistic suggests?:horse:)

:cool: Lombardi, unless they are lining the players on some list based on amount of receptions, a slot would be listed second because it's the "Y" position on the field in X, Y, Z receiver formations.

I never bash numbers as inaccurate unless they are. But most times numbers are what they are, not determinative. And as far as sports are concerned...usually used by geeks to buttress some flimsy point of view or win some stupid bet.

If the game was played with a pencil, paper and a bunch of numbers the Chargers would have been undefeated in the first 7 games instead of 2 and 5.:2 cents:


And that would be absolutely correct if behind that 12 was a number 4 as in 4 2 yard TDs or 3rd down conversions in the 4th quarter when you're trying to ice the game. AGAIN, NUMBERS DON'T ALWAYS CONVEY WHAT HAPPENS SITUATIONALLY. That's why they're for geeks.

No, what you claimed was Belichick wasn't 'enamored' with him nor did he have consideration for Welker becoming a 'star'. I don't know what definition you're going by or what your perspective on the word is but clearly Belichick went after Welker specifically, competed for him and ultimately trumped the competition by meeting Welker's demands over another team's negotiations and paid a guy Miami offered $1.3m per more than 3 times that. If that's not 'enamored' I wonder what he'd do for a player he was 'enamored with.. Since he only goes after 'undervalued' player...Oh, I forgot...he did go after Randy Moss and asked his 3 time SB winning QB to restructure his contract to fit Moss under the cap. So much for that 'undervalued' bullshit.:rolleyes:




Dude you're a stat nerd plain and simple...I don't care how loudly you're still futilely to reason a circumstance that more dynamic than just numbers. Get over yourself.

"Undervalued"??? "Expendable draft pick" are you fucking high??

His value was what it was as a first year starter with 67 receptions. "Expendable"? The Patriots gave up what they needed to in order to get him which was their 2nd rd. pick along with a 7th.

The only thing that makes a draft position 'expendable' if you want to call it that is when a team like the Patriots doesn't have many needs. That's one of the reasons they traded their other 1st rd. pick for SF's 1st in 2008. For their 3 picks in the first 2 rds. they ended up with B Meriweather and Wes Welker.



Aha! NOW I get it! You don't like numbers. Welker certainly wasn't undervalued. No way at all. You know, because he signed a 5 year $18 million deal at the same time that a certain former Cincinnati receiver with the exact same number of receptions signed a deal for $15 million up front, and $25 million in incentives. No way at all :rolleyes: Fair enough. But hey, don't let reality get in the way of a good story, I always say! :thumbsup:
 
I think it's safe to say Mr. MVP Tom Brady closed the book on the season yesterday.
:thefinger :thefinger

Doing da Bears like that in the snow....unfuck..can't even finish the word :bowdown:
 
Aha! NOW I get it! You don't like numbers. Welker certainly wasn't undervalued. No way at all. You know, because he signed a 5 year $18 million deal at the same time that a certain former Cincinnati receiver with the exact same number of receptions signed a deal for $15 million up front, and $25 million in incentives. No way at all :rolleyes: Fair enough. But hey, don't let reality get in the way of a good story, I always say! :thumbsup:

:facepalm: Jeeez...I thought this was over. If you're talking about T.J. Houshmandzadeh...Seattle signed him to a 5 year 40 million contract with a $15m bonus on the heels of 92 receptions in '08 and 112 receptions in '07.

He signed that contract in March of '09 which means his 79 receptions in '09 happened after he signed it.

He's playing at the league minimum for veteran players now.:2 cents:

I don't have an aversion to numbers or stats (or even studies) ...I just take them with a grain of salt for the limited insight that can be gleaned from them. Whereas you don't seem to be able to think for yourself without them. :dunno:
 
What a drive by the Texans, 98 yards with just over 2 minutes down by 8! When they play like they have been in the second half they got a beautiful team. Going to overtime at 28s. The catch by Johnson was a beaut(spelling?)...
 

Jon S.

Banned
How bout that fucken Texans game tonight.....is that a game or what??? I thought it was going to be another boring ass game at halftime......BOY WAS I WRONG!!!

The Ravens D looks totally gassed! Ravens won the toss in OT, they better not go 4 and out, or they have no chance! Their D needs a rest!

Any of my fellow members of Steelers Nation enjoying the hell out of the game???
 
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