New Jersey Bans Death Penalty

[Facetious]

As compared to who ?

Umm Uhh, The wealthy people featured in Mr Celebrity's "Celeb Threads". Sort of an inverse juxtaposition, double dealing and duplicitous. Nope ! I will not be egged into the reverse class-warfare diversion ! Not in this thread :1orglaugh


I have to bring something into this discussion -

I have to applaud Diane Feinstein. Years back, her Mayor and a supervisor were murdered by Dan White (of twinky defense fame).( story Being in such close proximity to these two homicides, in addition to loosing two of her colleagues, she'd reevaluated her stance on Capital punishment. Good for Diane Feinstein !

You guys can reverse your thinking on this one.
I promise not to laugh - Anti Capital Punishment is an item that you have in common with the Catholic Church !

I'm sorry.

Moving away from the obligatory racism that some folks always wish to enter these threads - Specifically when is Capital Punishment racist ? Do you really need eye for eye here ?

 

[Friday on my mind]

I see what I said and I don't see any place where I "disproved my own argument".

I was responding to DVC saying...



In other words, DVC said that if you're black than you are more likely to be executed.

My argument was that this wasn't true, which is supported by these statistics (which were obtained from here)...



I'm not a certified mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that 606 is a larger number than 356 and that 1,518 is a larger number than 1,387.

The amount of white people killed on Death Row outnumbers the amount of black people killed on Death Row...which doesn't contradict my argument at all.

:dunno:

Chef the problem with the way you are looking at those numbers is that you taking them as though whites and blacks were in the US in equal numbers.Blacks represent something like 13% only.And Chef as I pointed out to you your own state put a moriatorium on executions because of the practices of beating confessions out of BLACKS almost exclusively for murders they had not committed by the police.If you want I can provide tons of links that point out even more how discriminatorily it is applied.As terrible as going to jail for something you didn't do is when you are killed so that even if someday it comes out you were innocent it's too late.Is the difference between jail and execution so important to accept that many innocents will be killed?
You know look at the states that use the death penalty and NJ has not been one of those its just now official we won't.The southern sates mainly and Texas which use it have some of the highest crime and murder rates in the nation.They are brutal by executing and get brutality back,what goes around comes around.

 

[KungFuDude]

A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a conservative who's been arrested. - Thomas Wolfe

I'm a vegetarian that eats meat. - KFD

 

[YMIHERE]

I'm a vegetarian that eats meat. - KFD

I’m a future Saint who’s going to hell.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Umm Uhh, The wealthy people featured in Mr Celebrity's "Celeb Threads". Sort of an inverse juxtaposition, double dealing and duplicitous. Nope ! I will not be egged into the reverse class-warfare diversion ! Not in this thread :1orglaugh

I just asked cause you seemed obliged to mention it,but just wanted you to realize not everyone was lucky enough to have had fun with the pool when the folks were in Europe or spent summers at Lake Tahoe.Thats's all.
I would not say about such folks that "There are tendencies, like them or not" as that would be an unfair way to describe some .

You guys can reverse your thinking on this one.
I promise not to laugh - Anti Capital Punishment is an item that you have in common with the Catholic Church !

I'm sorry.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day!

 

[KungFuDude]

I’m a future Saint who’s going to hell.

I eat liberals for breakfast, and shit republicans!

 

[ChefChiTown]

Chef the problem with the way you are looking at those numbers is that you taking them as though whites and blacks were in the US in equal numbers.Blacks represent something like 13% only.

This is why I said...

Just because black people make up a smaller percentage of our population (as opposed to white people), it doesn't mean that black people will automatically commit a smaller number of violent crimes that warrant the death penalty.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Just because black people make up a smaller percentage of our population (as opposed to white people), it doesn't mean that black people will automatically commit a smaller number of violent crimes that warrant the death penalty.

Ok lets talk about that some then.Lets agree that blacks are involved in crimes at a higher level then the percentage they are in the population.Since they are an economically as group lower than the average I think that accounts for some of that.And as much as it is not what the majority may want to hear the responsibility for most of that situation is not theirs.C'mon we all know about the history and legacy of dicrimination in this country right?And it sure has not ended.The whole country, the justice system everything is still riddled with it.Police target Blacks and others dicriminatorily all the time.Like I said your own state had to stop it cause of all the BLACKS put on death row by Chicago cops who were innocent.They don't do that to people that look like you chef.

 

[Legzman]

So the moral of the story is...if your gonna murder someone do it in jersey! Good to know! :thumbsup:

*writing that down*

I still like the way texas does things!
You piss wrong and your put to death!!!

 

[geraldhp42]

Need another statistic to go along with this: how many whites are charged with murder and are then found innocent, and how many blacks are charged with murder and are then found innocent.

 

[geraldhp42]

So the moral of the story is...if your gonna murder someone do it in jersey! Good to know! :thumbsup:

*writing that down*

I still like the way texas does things!
You piss wrong and your put to death!!!

Look at the case of Charles Ng and Leonard Lake.

Charles Ng fled to Canada. Canada held off on extradition because Ng was facing a death sentence. Eventually the US said "Okay, if you want him so bad, keep him."

Canada sent him over.

I wonder if the countries that oppose the death penalty would like to take in everyone in the US sentenced to such.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Look at the case of Charles Ng and Leonard Lake.

Charles Ng fled to Canada. Canada held off on extradition because Ng was facing a death sentence. Eventually the US said "Okay, if you want him so bad, keep him."

Canada sent him over.

I wonder if the countries that oppose the death penalty would like to take in everyone in the US sentenced to such.

You say that as though there were country's similar to the US that have the death penalty and there is known.We are alone on this among the so-called civilized countries.And thats why we have the problems sometimes with extradition from many places as they do not want to be an accomplice in executions.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Since there are 8 times as many white people as black people in America, then there should be 8 times as many white people on death row.

That is only assuming that white people and black people have the same exact rate of committing violent crimes that warrant the death penalty.

I have already stated twice...

Just because black people make up a smaller percentage of our population (as opposed to white people), it doesn't mean that black people will automatically commit a smaller number of violent crimes that warrant the death penalty.

Here is some evidence that supports my argument and the point I am making.

Murders committed by race, 2006
White - 5,339
Black - 6,843

If there are 8 times the amount of white people in the U.S. then shouldn't there be 8 times as many murders committed by white people? :dunno:

Funny...but it looks like black people committed more murders last year, even though they are outnumbered 8 to 1 in this country by white people. Even if you take all of the 4,922 "unknowns" on that list and add them to the white total, the ratio still doesn't come close to the 8 to 1 advantage in population.

 

[geraldhp42]

What would that prove/disprove?

What are you trying to say? Your logic makes no sense? Why should they have to pay money for the richest country in the world to offload its killers to save that rich country from being stoneage barbarians? That's nothing to do with them.

I want to see how strongly the other countries are actually against the death penalty. If the value of a human life is so much, then wouldn't it be worth it to save the condemn life by taking them in?

What exactly is it you believe about white/black killers? Don't beat around the bush, just come out with it: what would showing how many whites and blacks are proven innocent prove?

Right now it seems to be the logical train is: "A greater percentage blacks are in death row than the precentage of blacks in the country. Therefore, the death penalty is racist." Tagged along with this is the line "Whites tend to be richer, therefore they tend to have better lawyers. Therefore they do not get sentenced."

I want to see some numerical evidence of that. There's reasons why the proportions are not in line. The easy answer is the system is racist. The system might be racist. But the evidence presented is lacking and largely based on rhetoric.

 

[Will E Worm]

I think it's funny that as the violent crime rate continues to rise, the severity of the punishments continues to decrease.

:dunno:

Exactly. Being soft on crime will only make it worse.

So, no one is in favor of someone like Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy being put to death?

 

[Friday on my mind]

You know what I think lets just drop the racial aspect although I don't think the pervasive racism in the system is really that unknown but really lets just forget that whole part of it and focus on this maybe .
LOTS OF INNONCENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PUT ON DEATH ROW.
Whatever color they are I want someone who supports the death penalty to explain to me how they think it is that so many who were not only proven to be innocent beyond a reasonable doubt but definately did not commit the murder ever get convicted and sentenced to death.I mean since they were innocent where did the so-called evidence come from?Corrupt police/justice system is the answer I guess so justify that to me please.As I pointed out to Chef his state called a moritorium on using it for just that reason.The system is way to flawed to allow it to take lives.And again here is the link to the "Innocence Project".
http://www.innocenceproject.org/

 

[geraldhp42]

So, no one is in favor of someone like Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gacy being put to death?

And Ted Bundy and Charles Ng and David Berkowitz and Richard Ramirez...

Those are the types of people where I think the death penalty should be used.

 

[Facetious]

So - This assho, Jesse Timmendequas, murderer among other things, of a seven year old girl will now be spared ?

Said seven year old girl - The inspiration of / for Megan's Law.

And stop using people to defend your anti cap punishment stance ! It is you who incessantly defend the unbecomings of the worst pieces OS amongst our society. You thrust your "compassion" where there should be arraignment. You suggest there's light, when in fact there's darkness. You taste bitter as the overwhelming majorities taste sweet. How did you become so whacked out ?? You stack the deck as you see fit, almost to the extent where you esteem being the lower retrograde .No doubt ! You're the real deal 5th column. So go on with your scorched earth policy.

What about the children for Petes sake ?

I'm familiar with the ideology guy's. After all we have UC Santa Cruz not to far away. The University President - Angela Davis !

I get it I get it



This is a rant against the most vehement within this thread not those who argue more thoughtfully. The humor guy is good with me !

 

[Imagine]

What about the children for Petes sake

I can't even begin to tell you how amusing it is that you use the archetype of an appeal to emotion in a serious context.

 

[Dean Wormer]

This is all irrelavant to the point that you were disputing. I know it's easy to dance around it, but you simply made a mistake.

You said blacks were not more likely to be on death row than whites.

Your statistics in the same post proved the opposite, that blacks are far more likely than whites to be on death row.

Regardless of the racial argument or any other factor, what you were trying to prove with your statistics was disproved with your statistics, and instead of changing the subject, there's always the more noble option of saying, yep, you were wrong, You Misinterpreted your statistics. That's an honourable thing to do, when you make a blatant mistake.

As for the point that you are *now* making, which is NOT the point you were making before (that point was disproved by your own statistics), why is that funny? Do you have any idea how privileged the average white person is in America and how poor the average black person is? It's DISGUSTING. There's your obvious explanation for that. The "blacks are more likely to murder" thing is 100% bullshit. It's 100% down to "poorer people are more likely to murder", that's true everywhere in the world. Look at who is below the poverty line in America. That's who is on death row. Those with little or nothing left to lose. And there are more blacks below the poverty line in America than whites, even though whites outnumber blacks 8 to 1.

Fox has just rationalized that poor people who murder (and apparently only poor people do that crime according to him) should be given a free pass because they are poor.